Vegan cafe charges male customers 18 percent ‘man tax’

[lilymc]

Personally, I believe that it is more masculine to protect the weak than to prey on the weak unnecessarily. Also soy isn't needed at all to go without meat, and there have been studies showing no link between soy and lower testosterone. In the end, eat however you want, but I think it's good to be aware that it can be healthy, easy, and tasty to go without meat, and that any nutrient in meat that humans need can be found easily in plants or milk so the purpose of eating meat is therefore mostly for taste preference rather than nutrition. I don't want to tell people what to do, but I think that it is good to be aware of these things as part of the decision of how someone chooses to eat, and to make a conscious decision about it. For example, I think it is better to hunt and be aware of the whole process than to pick up prepackaged meats at the grocery store while hating hunters.

Good post, and I'm glad that I'm not completely alone here. I think a lot of this comes down to many years of deeply ingrained tradition, as well as believing false information, because this is such a meat-eating world. I hope that others would agree that it's good to occasionally question one's views and traditions, and always put truth first, no matter where it leads.

I've noticed that a big problem here is that many people wrongly associate veganism with left-wing politics, and of course no conservative or libertarian wants to appear to be a bleeding heart liberal. But it's not a lefty thing, and I wish that people would get past lame, outdated stereotypes.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

I've noticed that a big problem here is that many people wrongly associate veganism with left-wing politics, and of course no conservative or libertarian wants to appear to be a bleeding heart liberal. But it's not a lefty thing, and I wish that people would get past lame, outdated stereotypes.

Veganism is clearly a left-wing thing. Of course, it doesn't have to be - there's no logical inconsistency in being a vegan and a liberal, nor in being a leftist and not being a vegan. But the fact is that most vegans are leftists (I'm speaking from experience only, as I'm aware of no polling data). Why is this the case? I suppose it's because, for many leftists, veganism is an extension of their victim-fetish: poor minorities, poor women, poor gays, poor poor, poor Bessie the cow (even "poor plants" in the case of "fruitarians" rofl). That said, it's often just a pose or a fad, not many true believers. Bono syndrome.

 

[Krugminator2]

I've noticed that a big problem here is that many people wrongly associate veganism with left-wing politics

There is a very good reason for that. Vegans, like left wingers, are obnoxious. People proudly claim moral superiority and tell everyone that they are vegans. Nobody cares if you are a vegan.

I don't see anything inherently virtuous about eating a diet that makes someone look like an emaciated AIDS patient.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

There is a very good reason for that. Vegans, like left wingers, are obnoxious. People proudly claim moral superiority and tell everyone that they are vegans. Nobody cares if you are a vegan.

Yup, I don't recall ever seeing a band of carnivores waiving signs or otherwise making a nuisance of themselves.

Vegans are in the same obnoxious category as teetotalers or anti-smoking nuts.

...not all of course, but as a generalization.

 

[asurfaholic]

I don't claim that eating meat makes me more manly (I'm pretty dang manly already).

I just like meat, it's been a part of my diet since I was a little man. Steaks and BBQ chicken. Please dont judge me Lily, you know I love u.

I've never taken the initiative to open my mind to even consider whether i need to alter my diet.

 

[lilymc]

I don't claim that eating meat makes me more manly (I'm pretty dang manly already).

I just like meat, it's been a part of my diet since I was a little man. Steaks and BBQ chicken. Please dont judge me Lily, you know I love u.

I've never taken the initiative to open my mind to even consider whether i need to alter my diet.

I totally understand. My post was only in response to those who were pushing the idea that veganism is only for women or sissy men, and that eating meat is somehow more manly.

I'm not saying that meat eaters are bad people, but I think that many people aren't aware of the factors that cause people to go vegan. That is changing a lot now, with the internet, because they can't completely hide what is going on, and truth has a way of coming out eventually. I love you guys too, and I honestly don't like division, so I hope that both 'sides' of this debate can discuss it in a civil matter. I admit that I don't always succeed at that, but that goes both ways.

 

[tod evans]

Yup, I don't recall ever seeing a band of carnivores waiving signs or otherwise making a nuisance of themselves.

Vegans are in the same obnoxious category as teetotalers or anti-smoking nuts.

...not all of course, but as a generalization.

Much truth here!

Lots of people like bland food, ya' don't hear them complaining about chiliheads..

I hear there're even people who put pineapple on pizza!

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Much truth here!

Lots of people like bland food, ya' don't hear them complaining about chiliheads..

I hear there're even people who put pineapple on pizza!

Outrageous!

We should stage a rally.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The comical thing about some of the comments in this thread is the collectivist mindset to view people as members of groups rather than as Individuals.

Being a vegan doesn't automatically make one a liberal just because a collectivist says so.

 

[Suzanimal]

Real men eat whatever the fuck they want to and don't give a crap what anyone thinks of their diet.

 

[Danke]

Real men eat whatever the fuck they want to and don't give a crap what anyone thinks of their diet.

mr. Animal, log off of your wife's account and hide her toys before the kids wake up.

 

[lilymc]

I guess we all have different ideas on what qualities are masculine and admirable.

I think caring about more than just oneself > selfishness.

Protecting the weak and vulnerable > exploiting the vulnerable.

Speaking out when necessary (even if it's unpopular) takes more courage than going with the flow to avoid being mocked or criticized.

Compassion is sexy.

 

[devil21]

I guess we all have different ideas on what qualities are masculine and admirable.

I think caring about more than just oneself > selfishness.

Protecting the weak and vulnerable > exploiting the vulnerable.

Speaking out when necessary (even if it's unpopular) takes more courage than going with the flow to avoid being mocked or criticized.

Compassion is sexy.

Since when does being strong enough to care about and protect humans around you, instead of an animal 1000 miles away, mean selfishness? That is the opposite of selfishness. If you ask me, I am protecting the weak and vulnerable in my life. It's all too easy to exploit the weak and vulnerable in this world without even involving actual farm animals.

 

[lilymc]

Since when does being strong enough to care about and protect humans around you, instead of an animal 1000 miles away, mean selfishness? That is the opposite of selfishness.

I didn't say that. I specifically stated someone who only cares about themself.

 

[Yieu]

I've noticed that a big problem here is that many people wrongly associate veganism with left-wing politics, and of course no conservative or libertarian wants to appear to be a bleeding heart liberal. But it's not a lefty thing, and I wish that people would get past lame, outdated stereotypes.

I personally don't advocate veganism, though I do recognize that it is practical in most places in the world. I don't think it's wrong to have honey, milk, or wear wool because they can be obtained with minimal or no harm to the animal and don't require killing. I also think that for most people, lacto-vegetarianism is easier and more practical, because dairy is healthy and would contain anything someone might be worried about missing from animal products, though those nutrients can also be found in plant sources.

One of the reasons I find libertarian and similar philosophies interesting is the non-aggression principle. To me, the NAP is basically the moral value of ahimsa, or non-violence to all species in word and deed, so I feel that it meshes nicely with my faith. To me, the libertarian non-aggression principle (ahimsa) is the reason not to cause harm to other humans and animals except in self defense. It is basically extending the golden rule to all of God's sentient creation. In this sense, lacto-vegetarianism can be seen as either neutral, libertarian, or conservative.

There are aspects about the vegan movement that I don't agree with that make it seem like more of a political movement or a boycott based on agreeing with a particular set of beliefs, and some of those aspects could be seen as left-wing by association of those who tend to take to the beliefs I suppose. For example, I don't think there is something wrong with taking milk from another species "because it wasn't meant for us", and I don't think it's wrong to use animals for labor if they're treated well, and I don't make terrible comparisons to "rape" to refer to animal husbandry. These are some of the aspects of veganism that I feel are more of a personal opinion than a universal ethic or religious moral, and part of why I feel lacto-vegetarianism is more practical in general for most people. I have encountered vegans that are so radical that they even hate vegetarians, but I know they're not all like that, and I think they are doing something positive by abstaining from flesh.

 

[lilymc]

I personally don't advocate veganism, though I do recognize that it is practical in most places in the world. I don't think it's wrong to have honey, milk, or wear wool because they can be obtained with minimal or no harm to the animal and don't require killing. I also think that for most people, lacto-vegetarianism is easier and more practical, because dairy is healthy and would contain anything someone might be worried about missing from animal products, though those nutrients can also be found in plant sources.

One of the reasons I find libertarian and similar philosophies interesting is the non-aggression principle. To me, the NAP is basically the moral value of ahimsa, or non-violence to all species in word and deed, so I feel that it meshes nicely with my faith. To me, the libertarian non-aggression principle (ahimsa) is the reason not to cause harm to other humans and animals except in self defense. It is basically extending the golden rule to all of God's sentient creation. In this sense, lacto-vegetarianism can be seen as either neutral, libertarian, or conservative.

There are aspects about the vegan movement that I don't agree with that make it seem like more of a political movement or a boycott based on agreeing with a particular set of beliefs, and some of those aspects could be seen as left-wing by association of those who tend to take to the beliefs I suppose. For example, I don't think there is something wrong with taking milk from another species "because it wasn't meant for us", and I don't think it's wrong to use animals for labor if they're treated well, and I don't make terrible comparisons to "rape" to refer to animal husbandry. These are some of the aspects of veganism that I feel are more of a personal opinion than a universal ethic or religious moral, and part of why I feel lacto-vegetarianism is more practical in general for most people. I have encountered vegans that are so radical that they even hate vegetarians, but I know they're not all like that, and I think they are doing something positive by abstaining from flesh.

Well, I actually don't think of myself as a vegan either and I don't always call myself one. (Even though I eat a vegan diet and I avoid leather, fur, etc.) I don't agree with vegans on a few things, because many of the hard-core vegans have ideas that are unbiblical. The only problem is, there's not really a word for vegan from a Christian perspective.

I definitely agree with you on the nonaggression principle, but respectfully, I disagree with you on dairy. I think many people are unaware that there is actually a lot of harm involved with dairy, starting with the calf being torn away from his mother, usually at day one of his life. Then the male calves are either discarded like garbage or raised for veal and killed at a young age, without giving them a chance to move around because their muscles need to be soft. The female calves are raised to be milk machines, forcibly impregnated over and over and completely exploited until they're too tired to go on, and at that point they're usually killed for cheap hamburger meat.

Here is a quote that I think is powerful and eloquent:

"I became a vegan the day I watched a video of a calf being born on a factory farm. The baby was dragged away from his mother before he hit the ground. The helpless calf strained its head backwards to find his mother. The mother bolted after her son and exploded into a rage when the rancher slammed the gate on her. She wailed the saddest noise I’d ever heard an animal make, and then thrashed and ...dug into the ground, burying her face in the muddy placenta.

I had no idea what was happening respecting brain chemistry, animal instinct, or whatever. I just knew that this was deeply wrong. I just knew that such suffering could never be worth the taste of milk and veal. I empathized with the cow and the calf and, in so doing, my life changed."

- James McWilliams​

And here are some videos…

 

[lilymc]

Yieu, those videos were actually very tame compared to many others out there that expose the cruelty in the dairy industry.

If you want to see a video that has caused tons of people to ditch dairy, watch this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI&t=59s (It's blunt but very concise and to the point.)

Also, we have been lied to by the dairy industry that pays for studies promoting the idea that we need dairy and that it is healthy. Numerous studies have shown that it is not healthy, and it really is unnecessary, when there are so many better alternatives out there, like almond milk, coconut milk, hemp milk, rice milk, etc.

 

[anaconda]

Real men eat whatever the $#@! they want to and don't give a crap what anyone thinks of their diet.

Including men who have diabetes and heart disease?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Being a vegan doesn't automatically make one a liberal just because a collectivist says so.

You are right, just somebody saying so, does not make it so.

No, what makes vegans almost universally "liberals" or more properly "authoritarian statists" is that, given the chance, the vast, vast majority of vegans would cheerfully, wholeheartedly and without equivocation support the idea of government mandates banning the use or consumption of any animal product for any use at any time.

They would equally favor harsh and draconian punishments for non compliance.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You are right, just somebody saying so, does not make it so.

No, what makes vegans almost universally "liberals" or more properly "authoritarian statists" is that, given the chance, the vast, vast majority of vegans would cheerfully, wholeheartedly and without equivocation support the idea of government mandates banning the use or consumption of any animal product for any use at any time.

They would equally favor harsh and draconian punishments for non compliance.

Yes, I know. I agree that the vast majority of them would.

I was just putting it out there that not all of them are like that. That's all I was saying.

I'm a big fan of leave me the heck alone. People are free to make rules for themselves so long as I'm not forced to equally do the same. It's a good rule to live by.