Vatican now says there is no longer a chosen people

[Meatwasp]

Yes my Mom always worshiped Mary Mary never Jesus.
She had her little altar
Non of us ever went to church.

 

[Sola_Fide]

LOL

Well you can think of it that way, but thats quite a stretch.

The Gospels were written between ~70-100 AD, the first two or three generations of Christians didn't even have the Gospels. I wonder what those first generations did as they sat around waiting for a book :/

The entire New Testament, including the Gospels, was written before the fall of Jerusalem (70 AD). I think you have been taken in by late-date advocates who have certain presuppositions when they come to the Scripture that you may not be aware of.

Ken Gentry wrote a decisive book arguing for the early date position called Before Jerusalem Fell.

 

[eOs]

YouTube - Foreskin Follies

 

[osan]

The Church wants its priests to be models of holiness, to live in the expectation of the Kingdom, and to be wholly devoted with undivided solicitude to the community in their pastoral care. The requirement of celebacy is based on...

...utter nonsense.

The requirement was nonexistent until ca. 1098 when a bull was issued. That bull remained almost completely unenforced until ca. 1220 when the church finally found it important enough to force the issue. Until that time, priests routinely married and had children of their own. It is also interesting to note the absence of any hints of Father Soandso buggering little Johnny Innocent in the confessional from those times.

This is all such very sick stuff. Sick, sick sick, sick.

 

[Maximus]

The entire New Testament, including the Gospels, was written before the fall of Jerusalem (70 AD). I think you have been taken in by late-date advocates who have certain presuppositions when they come to the Scripture that you may not be aware of.

Ken Gentry wrote a decisive book arguing for the early date position called Before Jerusalem Fell.

Even Revelation? Most scholarship I have seen pegs it in the 90s-100

Ancient sources including St. Iraneus cite it was written during the reign of Emperor Domitian (81-96), St. Iraneus followed St. Polycarp, a disciple of St. John.

Eusubius and St. Jerome both quote Iraneaus as well, "Quarto decimo anno, secundam post Neronem persecutionem movente Domitiano, in Patmos insulam relegatus, scripsit Apocalypsim"

The Gospel of John as well seems to indicate being written after the destruction of the Temple. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08438a.htm Under "Circumstances of Composition".

 

[Maximus]

...utter nonsense.

The requirement was nonexistent until ca. 1098 when a bull was issued. That bull remained almost completely unenforced until ca. 1220 when the church finally found it important enough to force the issue. Until that time, priests routinely married and had children of their own. It is also interesting to note the absence of any hints of Father Soandso buggering little Johnny Innocent in the confessional from those times.

This is all such very sick stuff. Sick, sick sick, sick.

The requirement was non existent but it does not mean that the practice did not exist.

Bishops in both the Western and Eastern Churches have always been celibate. The Orthodox Church often takes men from the monasteries to become bishops if most of their priests are already married. Eastern Catholics do this as well.

Celibate priesthood is a discipline not a point of doctrine or dogma.

 

[MelissaWV]

Bishops in both the Western and Eastern Churches have always been celibate.

That might have been the theory, but I doubt it was practice. This falls along the same lines as people who want to pretend marriages were happy in the olden days because there was a much lower divorce rate

 

[Tend yer biscuits.]

The misunderstandings are breaking my heart. I stopped posting on RPF a couple weeks ago because of the tone these arguments take. I want so much to clarify Catholic teaching, especially to the inactive Catholics. I want to distinguish between the moral defects of individuals and the moral vision they do or ought to aspire to. I wish I could explain that the Church's structure serves its mission. It is not the mission itself. While some aspects of the structure change with the centuries, the mission has been and always will be the glory of God and the reconciliation of souls to Him through union with the Second Person of the Trinity. Celibacy and funny hats are supposed to serve that purpose. If they don't, they are worthless. To the naysayers, I respectfully suggest that they can and do in ways that aren't immediately apparent.

For the purposes of this forum, I don't feel a great need to convert people. I just want to be understood and accurately represented. Clarity before agreement. Seek truth. Obey your conscience. Can't we all agree on those things?

The OP is not news to me. I'm glad bishops are starting to teach it again publicly. Christian Zionism is a recent distortion. The current pope has been quietly combating it for decades.

 

[johngr]

Of course. Paul's advice applies to all of us - if we have the strength to remain celibate, we ought to. And it is just that sort of person the Church wants for its priesthood, so that they may be undivided in their concern for the souls under their care, without the overweening concerns of wife and children.

Taking the most intelligent men out of the reproductive pool dysgenic.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Even Revelation? Most scholarship I have seen pegs it in the 90s-100

Ancient sources including St. Iraneus cite it was written during the reign of Emperor Domitian (81-96), St. Iraneus followed St. Polycarp, a disciple of St. John.

Eusubius and St. Jerome both quote Iraneaus as well, "Quarto decimo anno, secundam post Neronem persecutionem movente Domitiano, in Patmos insulam relegatus, scripsit Apocalypsim"

The Gospel of John as well seems to indicate being written after the destruction of the Temple. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08438a.htm Under "Circumstances of Composition".

Of course Revelation! Almost the entire book of Revelation is foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem, which occured in 70 ad.

How many times does John say "For the time is near at hand"??? Jesus said this generation would NOT PASS AWAY until they saw the Son of Man coming in judgement on those who rejected him!


Like I said, you have to examine the presuppositions and theology of the "scholars" proposing the late-date view. They are mostly all theological liberals who either deny prophetic verses (explain them away by saying they were written after the fact) or view Scripture in terms of dispensations rather than successive covenants.

 

[Maximus]

That might have been the theory, but I doubt it was practice. This falls along the same lines as people who want to pretend marriages were happy in the olden days because there was a much lower divorce rate

Hahha yes of course that was the idea, but unfortuantely not always the practice. Ultimately though it is the theory that is most important, because the Church is made up of sinners who often fall short of the ideal.

 

[Tend yer biscuits.]

Taking the most intelligent men out of the reproductive pool dysgenic.

That's true. On the flip side, asceticism nurtures genius. If Aquinas had accepted the prostitute his parents hired for him, I wouldn't be pondering the sacred monster of Thomism.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

YouTube - Foreskin Follies

FWIW, this vid is rather misleading. At the time that story would have occurred, the common notion of "circumcision" is what we now call "partial circumcision". That is, only a small portion of the skin is excised. It was, at the time, the "mark of the Jew". This was distorted over the generations, unfortunately.(just as most of the bible-or any subjective book-is distorted and misunderstood by those with an agenda)

 

[amy31416]

What kind of psychos think that god wants them to hack off a piece of their penis?

What kind of psychos go along with it?

 

[Dr.3D]

What kind of psychos think that god wants them to hack off a piece of their penis?

What kind of psychos go along with it?

Well even if they don't believe God wants it, it happens in hospitals every day to newborn babies.

 

[amy31416]

Well even if they don't believe God wants it, it happens in hospitals every day to newborn babies.

I'm aware.

I don't understand why parents don't stop and think prior to having it done though.

 

[Dr.3D]

I'm aware.

I don't understand why parents don't stop and think prior to having it done though.

I guess they just want to go along with what everybody else is doing. I've talked to some new parents and they said they wanted the child to be like his father. Others said they didn't want the child to feel different when showering in gym class and swimming classes.

Seems there are a multitude of reasons people do silly things.

 

[armstrong]

The Vatican is as evil as any head of religion has ever been in my opinion

 

[fedup100]

The thread title is a lie and should be changed.

Just to clarify, the Vatican DID NOT say there is no longer a chosen people, the Vatican said correctly, the JOO IS NOT the chosen people, big difference.

Again, the Bible is clear; after Jesus came and was sacrificed, all people are welcome to become part of the "chosen people", the spiritual Israel.

Those of you who do not believe in God or have never ever studied the word are using this discussion the blaspheme God.

 

[erowe1]

The thread title is a lie and should be changed.

Just to clarify, the Vatican DID NOT say there is no longer a chosen people,

But the exact words in the quote are, "There is no longer a chosen people." So, yes, they did say that.

Although, I half expect that it's a translational thing, where the word "people" in English translates a word that means "nation" in the original.