Vaccinations and my daughter

[GunnyFreedom]

The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
-- Bertrand Russell

Bloom Merit: SeekLiberty, micahnelson, Aratus, FreeTraveler, and sophocles07.

The Autistic Anuses: allyinoh, GunnyFreedom

What is destroying America?

Fiat. Debt. Oil. Religion.

Wow! Look at that! I have become an "Autistic Anus" because I believe that all people should have the freedom to decide for themselves the kinds of medical treatment they do and do not get.

 

[yongrel]

Wow! Look at that! I have become an "Autistic Anus" because I believe that all people should have the freedom to decide for themselves the kinds of medical treatment they do and do not get.

Gunny, I agree with you. We are on the exact same page. I do not believe that the government should be forcing medical decisions on people. I just feel that everyone should be free to comment on another person's decision, be it postively or negatively. You don't deserve to be called an autistic anus.

 

[Cinderella]

how about not passing judgment on others....what makes u any better because u decide to vaccinate ur child based on what u have studied or been taught compared to those who decide not to vaccinate based on what they have studied and what theyve been advised to do????? u can disagree but i dont see the point in name calling or "crushing their ego"...that just shows insecurity

 

[yongrel]

how about not passing judgment on others....what makes u any better because u decide to vaccinate ur child based on what u have studied or been taught compared to those who decide not to vaccinate based on what they have studied and what theyve been advised to do????? u can disagree but i dont see the point in name calling or "crushing their ego"...that just shows insecurity

Ridicule is the right and proper response to the ridiculous.

 

[Cinderella]

again i ask what makes u think that u are above everyone whom u label as ridiculous??? u have ur arguments as to why u will vaccinate and i have mine for why i wont...or at least i will wait and space them out......i happen to feel that if ur soooooo concerned about ur childs health why would u inject them with all these foreign substances by the age of 2?? their imunne system isnt even fully developed till 1 and not every child is the same.....if u want to vaccinate there is a safer way to do so...it is quite dangerous give that many vaccines in one sitting.....look at the statistics...1 in 97 i think get autism?? (not quite sure but i think its 1 in 100) so for everyone who says the chances of getting a reaction are slim really need to think twice about that statement

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Gunny, I agree with you. We are on the exact same page. I do not believe that the government should be forcing medical decisions on people. I just feel that everyone should be free to comment on another person's decision, be it postively or negatively. You don't deserve to be called an autistic anus.

You SHOULD be free to comment on another person's decision -- it's just that I believe that when you go from sharing your opinion and backing it up with logic and facts and data; over to trying to actually trying to force them to act against their will through the use of ridicule and shame, well, it's shameful.

Oh mind you, it's not even REMOTELY in the same class as trying to legislate such a thing.

If I were to set a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst form of intimidation, legislation would be an 8.5 and your brand of ridicule maybe a 3. Besides, there is nothing anybody can do about it. It's between you and your conscience.

As for me, I try to respect peoples decisions even if I think they are stupid decisions. I am struggling with that right now, my girlfriends daughter is one of the worst alcoholics I have ever encountered, and she is completely destroying her marriage. she is staying with us right now, and I am doing everything in my power to block her access to alcohol. I have no qualms about sharing my opinion, and have done so more than once, but in the end, if she wants to kill herself by drinking 2 gallons of Jim Beam a week, well, that's between her and her maker. I can't shame her into making a right decision, because she is not my "property" against which to use any kind of force.

And I do view such methods as force.

And thanks for the bit about the 'autistic anus,' dealing with such playground fare is bloody annoying even when you know you are right.

 

[yongrel]

As for me, I try to respect peoples decisions even if I think they are stupid decisions. I am struggling with that right now, my girlfriends daughter is one of the worst alcoholics I have ever encountered, and she is completely destroying her marriage. she is staying with us right now, and I am doing everything in my power to block her access to alcohol. I have no qualms about sharing my opinion, and have done so more than once, but in the end, if she wants to kill herself by drinking 2 gallons of Jim Beam a week, well, that's between her and her maker. I can't shame her into making a right decision, because she is not my "property" against which to use any kind of force.

And I do view such methods as force.

Okay, I think I see the confusion. My aim in ridicule, or any sort of commentary, is not to "force" anyone to do anything. It's my opinion, and I don't intend for it to carry any more weight than that. My hope is that my input, be it sound advice or derisive laughter, is an influence of the decision, not to be confused with actually making the decision for another.

I believe that ridicule, while superficially different, is equivalent to any other form of opinion. When I give someone advice like "You should probably brush your teeth," I am asserting my opinion in the same basic way as I would be by saying, "Your breath is terrible." While the emotion behind the two statements is different, the result is the same. The effect of either is to give the recipient new information.

Merciless derision is just information. Perhaps abrasive information, but information nonetheless.

Information is not force. If I have a choice between A and B, and I am given information about A, I am still free to choose A. Perhaps A is less desirable to choose now, but I am still able to choose it.

That's liberty for ya.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I try to keep a pretty thick skin online -- it is easy to completely misconstrue what someone is saying via keyboard and text. I try to recognize that I can misunderstand someone else, as easily as they can misunderstand me. That tends to relieve a lot of potential angst.

As to the derision, really, to each their own. It's gotta really suck though if you have ruthlessly mocked, humiliated, and ridiculed someone, only to later learn that you were wrong on the merits. Seems to me that would magnify the amount of crow you have to eat by a factor of 10.

That's another reason I have always avoided such methods. Not because I'm afraid to eat crow, mind you, but because if discovering I was wrong would be that much more humiliating on account of the methods I had used, then I might be tempted to disregard any evidence that I was wrong. I like to think of myself as someone who is able to do a rapid U-turn if I ever discover that I had been wrong, so I also make an effort to not tempt myself to ignore evidence contrary to my positions.

 

[Cinderella]

glad tp see u all kissed and made up

 

[GunnyFreedom]

glad tp see u all kissed and made up

It's a heckuva lot easier to do that, than it is to find that dang glass slipper...

 

[Cinderella]

great thread with lots of info

 

[Kade]

Fiat. Debt. Oil. Religion.

That was a great signature. Ahh, the good days.

 

[HonestyInMedicine]

I've been reading about vaccinations and the dangers, and I've almost convinced my fiance to stop allowing the doctors to inject our 7 month old daughter with these toxins. She still has a mentality that they must do more good than bad because they're protecting her from diseases.
Anyways, I'm really worried about my daughter and I'm going to list off her vaccination record thus far and ask for some of you help and advice.

Here's her record so far:

Vaccine Dose Immunization Date

DTaP- 3- 1/19/2008

Hep B- 3- 1/16/2008

HIB- 3- 1/19/2008

IPV- 3- 1/19/2008

IPV- 2- 11/20/2007

IPV- 1- 9/18/2007

HIB- 2- 11/20/2007

HIB- 1- 9/18/2007

Hep B- 2- 9/18/2007

Hep B- 1- 7/20/2007

DTaP- 2- 11/20/2007

DTaP- 1- 9/18/2007

She was born 7/20/2007, and to the best of my knowledge this is her complete shot record so far. Since by the looks of things she's received a lot so far would it be smarter to completely stop getting the shots or would that do some harm since she's already received some?
I'm not an expert on this subject and I want what is best for her, is there any way to reverse any affects these shots so far have had on her? She's a very smart baby and I don't want these poisons to hurt her. What can I do?
I live in Ohio, can I just tell the pediatrician that I no longer want her to receive the shots? I know the doctor will try to convince me otherwise so what kind of excuse can I use? I don't want her to get any more shots, I really need some help here. A friend of our family has started not giving her kids vaccines and has started to take her kids to the chiropractor instead of a pediatrician because they use more holistic medicine, should I do something like this? I"m not too worried about public schools having problems with no vaccinations because I plan on homeschooling anyways.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Part of the problem is that kids are being given the vaccinations BEFORE they have a CHANCE to develop and IMMUNE SYTEM so they can't fight off the side effects of the vaccine. Many parents and any Naturopathic
doctor or Doctor of Chinese Medicine would tell you to at least HOLD OFF for as many years as you can. Get the vaccinations at age 5 or 2 at the earliest NOT before then.

 

[yongrel]

Part of the problem is that kids are being given the vaccinations BEFORE they have a CHANCE to develop and IMMUNE SYTEM so they can't fight off the side effects of the vaccine. Many parents and any Naturopathic
doctor or Doctor of Chinese Medicine would tell you to at least HOLD OFF for as many years as you can. Get the vaccinations at age 5 or 2 at the earliest NOT before then.

Quick question, since you're so eager to bump all of these type of threads...

do you have some sort of expertise in this area, or is it just something you're interested in?

 

[HonestyInMedicine]

Quick question, since you're so eager to bump all of these type of threads...

do you have some sort of expertise in this area, or is it just something you're interested in?

I'm not bumping. I'm offering good information. Natural medicine is science based medicine. It is real and it works and it is affordable. We'd all be much healthier if more of us thought to use it first and used western medicine as a last resort.

It is an avocation. I want people to benefit from some of my experience and research over 17 years is all.

I'm also an independent health insurance agent and have taken thousands of health histories over the past 20 years and have seen the huge increases in the use of prescriptions in some of my clients that I've had for a long time use. Some of them are now having problems as a result of prescriptions they took earlier on.
For example lots of meds for allergies in your 20's and 30's can lead to ED problems in your 40s. (This client would be a lot healthier had he seen an N.D. or his allergies.)

Also it used to be even 10 years ago that it was rare that anyone in their 20's or 30's or even 40's would be taking meds. Now it is commonplace. They've also created more "diseases" to give them excuses to sell more drugs such as "acid reflux disease" (curable with apple cider vinegar-- ) . They've also lowered what they consider "normal" blood pressure and cholesterol to give doctors and excuse to sell more drugs to more people. Both of which are very easily cured by proven experienced naturopaths and natural medicines that don't have to be taken for the rest of your life either.

If Americans both understood what type of health insurance really provides the best protection for the best price AND understood what type of doctor to go to for the type of problem they have, there would be no health care crisis right now. I PROMISE you that.

As far as health insurance is concerned most Americans have a stupid overpriced plan with not enough catastropic protection that has co-pays for office visits-- when in some cases they could get the identical plan with the same size deductible without the separate co-pays where the visits count towards the deductible instead for thousands of dollars less per year and be covered 100% after the deductible is met for EVERYTHING--from the same insurance company. Unfortunately many of my colleagues are just order takers for co-pay plans and not even bringing up HSAs or HRAs or Section 105 plans. I could get on my soapbox about that too but I won't.

I've also been to and still go to a naturopath who has patients all ov er the world that consult via the phone. He was a former medical doctor who has been curing so-called "incurable" diseases for 25 years. After the experts in Boston at the Lahey clinic told me nothing was wrong -- even though I knew there was, a friend referred me to this M.D, N.D. and he looked for things the conventional doctors hadn't even thought to consider. It turned out my Naturopath was right and in a matter of 2 weeks I had so much energy I couldn't even remember what it was like to feel that good it has been so long.It turned out I had a pre-cancerous condition that conventional doctors don't understand. Anyway, I continued with a restricted diet and natural medicines for 4 months and after that I was able to stop everything and go back to eating whatever I wanted. He had helped me restore my immune system and it was wonderful -- very empowering!

I'm also an avid researcher. I've read LOTS and LOTS about the subject and the unfortunate politics of medicine in this country. It sickens me to hear about children with cancer whose parents aren't even aware of all of the much safer cancer treatments there are out there. Everytime someone from the ACS calls for a donation I give them an earful of how they have had chapters managed by well meaning directors who lived in cities where doctors were curing patients of cancer and by bringing "the good news" to the ACS headquarters, lost their jobs and the ir chapter was closed.

A great book about the politics of cancer treatments in this country is by Barry Lynnes (I think is how you spell it). The book is THE HEALING OF CANCER: THE CURES THE COVER-UPS AND THE SOLUTION NOW. That book is loaded with documentation as well. Hearing him on a radio show was really what opened my eyes to the TRUTH about medical care and then later I became interested in Food and Water safety.

 

[pinkmandy]

Quick question, since you're so eager to bump all of these type of threads...

do you have some sort of expertise in this area, or is it just something you're interested in?

I take it that this is his passion- just going by his name. Good passion to have imo and I look forward to more posts, thoughts, insights. I love your siggie, btw.

 

[Conza88]

Hi there Christagious,

I am begging you to not take any medical advice from the "health freedom" section on this message board. The vaccination propagandist are perhaps the most dangerous and deliberately prevaricating of all the pseudosciences. By denying your child the vaccinations you will not only be putting her life/health in danger but others in your community as well. The anti'vaccination crowd lies. And they lie big.

Do not confuse the science issue with the liberty issue. Of course the government shouldn't be allowed to mandate vaccines. Just like they shouldn't be allowed to prohibit people from killing themselves by overdosing on drugs.

But that does not change the fact that vaccines save lives and are overwhelmingly safe. You should allow your kid to get them because they work, are safe, and protect your kid from contracting and then spreading diseases to others in your community, not because the government requires you to do so.

Your daughter is not being poisoned by vaccinations. Vaccinations do not put your daughter at risk for getting diseases (autism, flu, etc.). If you have specific questions about specific concerns please let me know and I will do my best to answer them with established science, not myths and deliberate obfuscation that is running rampant within the anti-vaccination crowd.

Again, I am begging you to reconsider. This is not fun and games. This is important for your daughter's well being as well as the people she will come into contact with in her life. Please don't believe propaganda that has been debunked exhaustively.

GTFO.

I have no vested interest in this issue at all. But I'm going to tell you a story now; first hand. Now take this unbias advice.

I got given a voucher for Christmas - advanced driving course. Anyway; off too it I go. Awesome time; anyway - talking to a lady who was looking sick.

It turns out shes in the Health Industry and got it organized through work to get a Flu Vaccination.

She's said she'd hardly ever been sick in her life with the flu etc... winter time was no worries to her mostly. But she thought; why not, let's be safe... what with all these new super bugs around etc?

She got the vaccination... and guess what - she got sick; with the flu and remained so for 11 weeks, she's still probably not better.

"Never ever again" - HER very own words. She's a nurse, she knows wtf is up.

It only protects you against KNOWN strains ANYWAY; and they MORPH regardless...

All you've said is BASELESS convictions... talking out of your ass. If the OP goes ahead with it; and in some way was influenced or persuaded by your post - and the child gets sick etc.... You should be held responsible.

The Ron Paul movement has been right on every single other issue; I doubt this is any different.

Go continue to sip on your sodium fluoridated water... I hear it's good for your health

Edit: Anyway... just realised it was an old thread. Glad the comment / person I was quoting got pwned.

 

[HonestyInMedicine]

If you do your own research you'll find that vaccinations do more harm than good. Look at this for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hc_-O9neyw&feature=related

By the way, an easy way to begin to do the research is to search for "dangers of vaccinations" be leary of the fake "grassroots" cites proped up by the medical establishment to draw you in and then twist your mind around 180 degrees to convince you of how "safe" vaccinations are.

Also keep in mind the overall dangers of conventional medicine at the same time outlined in this study:

http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/M...MEDICINEIS MEDICINENET MEDICINES Medicine by

These statistics are documented in respected medical journals highly esteemed by conventional western medical doctors listed in the study.

Keep in mind that most Americans don't do their research. They don't question anything their medical doctor tells them. They just do what they are told. The few who can think outside the box; who won't be intimiated by their medical doctors also are the ones whose research leads them to safer longer proven natural alternatives and better health.

Those of us who haven't done our research who tell you not to take advice (other than that of your medical doctor) probably just run to our medical doctors and do whatever they tell us without question for every ache or pain we have. They are most likely on a number of prescription drugs and may not be the happiest campers around and may actually feel pretty miserable. You know how the saying goes, "misery LOVES company".

 

[pinkmandy]

A woman on a mommy board- a NICU nurse at that- I'm on had the MMR after the birth of her last child- about 9 months ago. Immediately, she had horrible pains in her arm where she had the vax and it radiated into her shoulder. Even now she can barely move that arm, it's semi-paralyzed and her doctor told her to expect it to stay that way and she may never be able to build up enough muscle to compensate for it. She has reported it to the VAERS but was told that as long as she had some use with it then too bad. That's not a "real" disability- no matter that she can't pick up her 2 children. Assholes.

 

[christagious]

I originally posted this a pretty long time ago. here's an update. We've decided to hold off on vaccinations until she's at least 2,3,4, or 5. And that's if we even decide to give her any at all.

HonestyInMedicine, I may want to discuss things further with you concerning various things, including this.

One thing that worries me about NOT giving vaccinations is what if the gov't decides to unleash some sicknesses that only the unvaccinated will be affected by? Most likely the people they'd be targeting are the liberty minded ones as a lot of the survivalists, ron paul supporters, alex jones fans, etc are against vaccines. What does anybody think of this scenario?