US ISPs become 'copyright cops' starting July 12

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Best thing that could have happened to us honestly. If it is a private effort that means they were not strong enough to force the cops to do it. I would much rather fight with private corps with limited resources and sword of profits hanging over them.

What type of tracking is available to them? Is there any way to counter it?
 
Surely you can realize the difference between the government doing something like that, and companies protecting their products from being given away for free... I'd suspect that if you were in the entertainment business, that you would not be happy to have to go out of business because some people decided that they could just pass around and even sell themselves products you spent thousands if not millions to produce.

A free market also implies protection from having your property stolen and exploited for someone else's gain.

Further, we should all be happy when companies self-regulate themselves rather than give the government more unnecessary power for them to use as precedents to seize more power.

I don't care about people trying to make a business on a faulty model. Sure a mafia boss would also be upset if all of a sudden cops showed up and shut down his business. Should we feel bad for him or care about him?

IP is not property.
 
Is there a broadband alternative or a good workaround?
Please point me to a source if you would rather.
-Ethan
 
I don't care about people trying to make a business on a faulty model. Sure a mafia boss would also be upset if all of a sudden cops showed up and shut down his business. Should we feel bad for him or care about him?

IP is not property.
The bolded jsut makes an argument why those pirating other's work should accept the consequences for trying to use someone else's intellectual property for their own gain.

You have a choice not to associate with an ISP if they're going to far, but I don't understand the argument that just because the internet's ability to share information has made their business "faulty" through no fault of their own, that it somehow makes it right to rip the works that others might have devoted all of their time and resources into. Intellectual property is still property.

If I make a movie to sell even just to break even, I do not deserve for you to feel it's your right to take it for free and take money out of my pocket.

Further, as is argued here all the time, businesses have the right to protect themselves. It's when they use the government to grant them special priveledges that they're going to far. They have every right to self-regulate and ensure that they're not supporting piracy that could stand to bankrupt the entertainment they provide.
 
The bolded jsut makes an argument why those pirating other's work should accept the consequences for trying to use someone else's intellectual property for their own gain.

You have a choice not to associate with an ISP if they're going to far, but I don't understand the argument that just because the internet's ability to share information has made their business "faulty" through no fault of their own, that it somehow makes it right to rip the works that others might have devoted all of their time and resources into. Intellectual property is still property.

If I make a movie to sell even just to break even, I do not deserve for you to feel it's your right to take it for free and take money out of my pocket.

Further, as is argued here all the time, businesses have the right to protect themselves. It's when they use the government to grant them special priveledges that they're going to far. They have every right to self-regulate and ensure that they're not supporting piracy that could stand to bankrupt the entertainment they provide.

Let's say your business was in trading secrets. And all of a sudden people found out where you get your secrets. So instead of going to you they now go and get the secrets them selves. Are you entitled to compensation?

How about the dudes that used to bring ice to your home? Are they entitled to work protection? After all just because fridges were invented why should they be out of work? Internet lowered the cost of copying IP to zero. IP holders are not happy and want to artificially raise the cost so they keep getting income. Sorry but that is mafia model.
 
I'm not a "pirate", but this sounds messed up. They better not shut down sites like mediafire, cuz' I need those things for my own purposes!

Although I highly doubt they will go after things worth actually downloading (Doujin music, visual novels, Touhou, etc...). Rather I believe they will just prevent downloads to a bunch of shit we don't give a shit about (Justin Bieber, Twilight, etc...)

Although I really hope textbook downloads remain. Some university books are worth $600 dollars! I don't care what anyone says! Those arrogant, monopolizing bastards DESERVE every pirate of their books they get, because with the internet, knowledge is meant to be shared, not sold! No shitty piece of paper should be worth so much money, and I welcome textbook piracy both for the sake of students everywhere, and the freedom of knowledge!

The same people who charge us these insane prices for textbooks have the nerve to complain to the government how students cannot afford higher eduction!? Well, guess what? Fuck you! Just give me my degree!
 
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How dare you try and steal a $600 book that your teacher says you don't need on the first day of class after you were required to buy it. (but the school gets a kickback for using them as a provider)
 
Corporate Cops.

This is what happens when you privatize your Police Force.

Actually privatizing the police would be good, because we could choose which comapnies to get service from. If one service provider is too strict, no one will go to them. Unfortunately, w/o private law (a maintained monopoly on law), the companies bascially have a statist gun to their head as to how strict they have to be. If law and police were private, then people could sign up for law providers and service providers, and the service providers would only have to jive with your specific, alreay agreed to, contractual dispute resolution and law providing agreement.

This isn't a case of privatizing police. This is a case of the police holding a gun to the heads or companies to make them do their job for them at their own expense.
 
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I'm not a "pirate", but this sounds messed up. They better not shut down sites like mediafire, cuz' I need those things for my own purposes!

Although I highly doubt they will go after things worth actually downloading (Doujin music, visual novels, Touhou, etc...). Rather I believe they will just prevent downloads to a bunch of shit we don't give a shit about (Justin Bieber, Twilight, etc...)

Although I really hope textbook downloads remain. Some university books are worth $600 dollars! I don't care what anyone says! Those arrogant, monopolizing bastards DESERVE every pirate of their books they get, because with the internet, knowledge is meant to be shared, not sold! No shitty piece of paper should be worth so much money, and I welcome textbook piracy both for the sake of students everywhere, and the freedom of knowledge!

The same people who charge us these insane prices for textbooks have the nerve to complain to the government how students cannot afford higher eduction!? Well, guess what? Fuck you! Just give me my degree!
Indeed. This kind of backward thinking is one reason brick and mortar colleges will be dead in a generation or 2.
 
This is a case of the police holding a gun to the heads or companies to make them do their job for them at their own expense.
Umm, no this is not the case of police forcing them to do anything... Where does it even imply that?

This is case of companies policing themselves by eliminating piracy that doesn't stand in their interests (they are in the media and entertainment delivery business afterall). So these companies deciding to self-regulate rather than the government forcing them to is exactly what you will see in a free-market...

Things like SOPA and the like is what you're talking about, whereas measures like this (should be) the alternative. It's the free-market that wants piracy gone, and that's why they're taking measures here, rather than giving the feds more reason to take control of it...

If this meant that there was no need or desire for SOPA, I'd be 100% in favor of them protecting their interests and us being allowed to volluntarily decide if we want to do business with those ISPs or not... But of course neither of us is naive enough to think that this will curtail things like SOPA or whatever it is now. Even if it did, they'd still use "cyber-threats" to gain control :rolleyes:
 
Umm, no this is not the case of police forcing them to do anything... Where does it even imply that?

This is case of companies policing themselves by eliminating piracy that doesn't stand in their interests (they are in the media and entertainment delivery business afterall). So these companies deciding to self-regulate rather than the government forcing them to is exactly what you will see in a free-market...

Things like SOPA and the like is what you're talking about, whereas measures like this (should be) the alternative. It's the free-market that wants piracy gone, and that's why they're taking measures here, rather than giving the feds more reason to take control of it...

If this meant that there was no need or desire for SOPA, I'd be 100% in favor of them protecting their interests and us being allowed to volluntarily decide if we want to do business with those ISPs or not... But of course neither of us is naive enough to think that this will curtail things like SOPA or whatever it is now. Even if it did, they'd still use "cyber-threats" to gain control :rolleyes:
No. People who believe their content is being "pirated" (:rolleyes: cry me a river) should learn methods of copy-proofing rather than cry to ISPs to use force against others.
 
No. People who believe their content is being "pirated" (:rolleyes: cry me a river) should learn methods of copy-proofing rather than cry to ISPs to use force against others.
Cry me a river? Look, copyright infriengement doesn't just affect the big businesses you and I don't care about (though it doesn't make their right not have their work stolen any less of a right). It can affect everyone from an individual to small business to big business and it's employees if their work is stolen and reproduced and they don't get any sort of compensation, and can even lose money then, for producing it...

Also, because of technology it is becoming increasingly difficult to stop piracy. Hell, all you need is a good ripping program or a camera and $10 for a movie stub to do so... And becuase no business is in business to give things away for free as they lose money, then you have 2 choices. Either the free-market can work to protect it's intellectual property, or they're going to continue to ask the government to get involved.

Regardless, stealing other people's work, particularly for profit is wrong. It has nothing to do with how you feel about the individuals being stolen from. They're making money legitimately and I don't know how you cna side with people stealing others work over a market having to get (and no, there is no force here. it's a volluntary assocaition to combat piracy for both of their interests) someone to stop from stealing their property.
 
Cry me a river? Look, copyright infriengement doesn't just affect the big businesses you and I don't care about (though it doesn't make their right not have their work stolen any less of a right). It can affect everyone from an individual to small business to big business and it's employees if their work is stolen and reproduced and they don't get any sort of compensation, and can even lose money then, for producing it...

Also, because of technology it is becoming increasingly difficult to stop piracy. Hell, all you need is a good ripping program or a camera and $10 for a movie stub to do so... And becuase no business is in business to give things away for free as they lose money, then you have 2 choices. Either the free-market can work to protect it's intellectual property, or they're going to continue to ask the government to get involved.

Regardless, stealing other people's work, particularly for profit is wrong. It has nothing to do with how you feel about the individuals being stolen from. They're making money legitimately and I don't know how you cna side with people stealing others work over a market having to get (and no, there is no force here. it's a volluntary assocaition to combat piracy for both of their interests) someone to stop from stealing their property.

You don't have a right to a wage(work). You have a right to property. IP is not property.
 
The bolded jsut makes an argument why those pirating other's work should accept the consequences for trying to use someone else's intellectual property for their own gain.

You have a choice not to associate with an ISP if they're going to far, but I don't understand the argument that just because the internet's ability to share information has made their business "faulty" through no fault of their own, that it somehow makes it right to rip the works that others might have devoted all of their time and resources into. Intellectual property is still property.

If I make a movie to sell even just to break even, I do not deserve for you to feel it's your right to take it for free and take money out of my pocket.

Further, as is argued here all the time, businesses have the right to protect themselves. It's when they use the government to grant them special priveledges that they're going to far. They have every right to self-regulate and ensure that they're not supporting piracy that could stand to bankrupt the entertainment they provide.

Whether or not you believe in copyrights/patents, please don't use the phrase "intellectual property." It's a propaganda term coined in the 20th century by the copyright lobby to conflate patents, copyrights, and trademarks in the court of public opinion and treat each of them like any of the others at the most convenient possible times. In reality, the three concepts each have their own distinct history and purpose.

Patents are not property, and neither are copyrights: They are limited-time government-granted monopolies intended to promote progress in the arts and sciences by artificially and coercively maintaining profit motive for easily replicated works. However, they are not property or an individualist construct; they're a collectivist construct, and they're not natural to the market but alien to it. The difficulty of enforcing them (and the typical drive to create a police state to do so) should be your first hint.

Physical property is property, and "intellectual property" ironically infringes upon people's right to do what they want with their physical property, for the benefit of the "greater good." Copyrights and patents function by coercively protecting a monopoly supplier and maintaining their desired cost-based price levels (Marxist labor theory of value) through artificial scarcity, but that's not how the market works...in a free market, competition/imitation/reproduction/etc. is intrinsic, and buyers determine the legitimate value of any good or service without respect to initial production cost. techdirt has great articles on this subject. You can believe in the virtues of copyrights and patents if you want, and I agree that very limited-time copyrights and patents have their benefits in the utilitarian sense...but they're ultimately unnecessary IMO, and unlimited "intellectual property" is absolutely destructive to freedom, market size and profitability (ironically), and even art and science (by hampering derivative works and risking destruction of culture...do you know how many thousands of old films cannot be legally archived in a secure/multiple-copy manner before the media decays, because the copyright holders are nowhere to be found?). I'm not really here to make the argument against limited-time copyrights/patents (there is one, and it's been the subject of more than one libertarian book), but at least don't swallow and peddle the copyright lobby's bullshit rhetoric.

Trademarks are a little more interesting in the property sense, because others using them can constitute fraud or plagiarism...but in the general case, no, "intellectual property" doesn't exist as anything other than a government construct.
 
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I'm not a "pirate", but this sounds messed up. They better not shut down sites like mediafire, cuz' I need those things for my own purposes!

Although I highly doubt they will go after things worth actually downloading (Doujin music, visual novels, Touhou, etc...). Rather I believe they will just prevent downloads to a bunch of shit we don't give a shit about (Justin Bieber, Twilight, etc...)

Although I really hope textbook downloads remain. Some university books are worth $600 dollars! I don't care what anyone says! Those arrogant, monopolizing bastards DESERVE every pirate of their books they get, because with the internet, knowledge is meant to be shared, not sold! No shitty piece of paper should be worth so much money, and I welcome textbook piracy both for the sake of students everywhere, and the freedom of knowledge!

The same people who charge us these insane prices for textbooks have the nerve to complain to the government how students cannot afford higher eduction!? Well, guess what? Fuck you! Just give me my degree!

I read this out loud to my wife who is finishing up her doctorate in Educational Leadership. She clapped her hands and said "bravo." The prices they get for the textbooks for her program are ridiculous!
 
You don't have a right to a wage(work). You have a right to property. IP is not property.
This^^ the Grinch's arguments have no basis in objective reality or morality. They are also anti-economic (especially in regards to misunderstanding supply vs demand...ideas are super abundant and have zero value in the real world. We have hashed this out in another thread around here somewhere quite thoroughly.)
 
This^^ the Grinch's arguments have no basis in objective reality or morality. They are also anti-economic (especially in regards to misunderstanding supply vs demand...ideas are super abundant and have zero value in the real world. We have hashed this out in another thread around here somewhere quite thoroughly.)
When I say "intellectual property" in this thread, I'm not referring about things that are a grey area at best like patents. I simply mean tangible media and the right to copyright it and say "no, I produced that, and I don't give you my permission to reuse/plagiarize it, particularly not for profit". I realize that things like patenting ideas and such can be anti-economic, but this is a different matter, and anti-economic in itself if people from other countries are ripping off our media here and selling them elsewhere. Also, giving it away is equally costful and equally anti-progress if no artists want to spend thousands to make a record, book, movie that gets spread for free.

So please don't make this argument mroe than it is, which is simply the right of those who produce media to not be plagiarized or have their work misrepresented and exploited by someone else.

Just as Mini-me said above, copyrights are really a different matter of essentially theft, misrepresentation, and exploitation of someone else's creative work, and thus, I do not know why I'd lump it in with a larger discussion about "intellectual property". It's copyrights that are in question here, and it's clear that those infringed upon and had money stolen out of their pockets are well within their right to self -regulate with other companies involved in facilitating it, if not even compensation with a lawsuit, or at very least an order to cease and desist.

Put simply, creative works are far different than ideas that can be easily duplicated and original, and as a videographer myself, I hope you can see the difference in expectations of protecting property that became mine when I made it.
 
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