Update on Obama Birth Certificate Lawsuits

[CurtisLow]

In the case of Hillary becoming Secretary of State, the Congress voted to reduce the pay of the office so that the pay is not higher and thus allowing her to assume the position.
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081212/LOCAL08/812120350/0/LOCAL11

Hell, She doesn't need the money.. Last time I read she and Mr. Bill had well over $50 million in the bank. All it is, is a power trip.

 

[cheapseats]

In the case of Hillary becoming Secretary of State, the Congress voted to reduce the pay of the office so that the pay is not higher and thus allowing her to assume the position.
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081212/LOCAL08/812120350/0/LOCAL11

This is disingenuous -- not your claim, their methodology -- EXACTLY the blatant, imperious (like royalty), impervious (beyond reach), one-way-or-another, your-money-or-your-money High Handedness that WE The People, I anyway, henceforth and categorically reject.

I give you TARP . . . and UNACCOUNTED FOR BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

With no end in sight, it bears mention.

 

[cheapseats]

Hell, She doesn't need the money.. Last time I read she and Mr. Bill had well over $50 million in the bank. All it is, is a power trip.

That's right -- they don't need the money NOW, now that they have brokered fake concern for Little People into a Cash Cow.

The Clinton's have always been, in my estimation, money-grubbing White Trash.

Except NOW they're Nouveau Riche.

 

[The_Orlonater]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

 

[dannno]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

"It's almost like citing yourself," said Stuart Rothenberg, editor and publisher of The Rothenberg Political Report, a nonpartisan political newsletter.

Are you not aware of the relationship between Politifact and Obama??

You clearly missed the 2 and a half hour news conference on Obama's birth certificate. They didn't sit around and talk about nothing. I highly recommend looking it up and watching it.

 

[Zippyjuan]

He owns them? He is on their supervisory board? He tells them what to write?

 

[dannno]

He owns them? He is on their supervisory board? He tells them what to write?

Why do you think Obama is behind the 'conspiracy'? Why can't he just be one of their puppets?

This is like how 9/11 truthers get accused of thinking that George Bush planned 9/11. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds to the average truther? That just isn't how things work.

The reason you will never see the truth is because you refuse to understand how things work.

 

[bojo68]

That's right -- they don't need the money NOW, now that they have brokered fake concern for Little People into a Cash Cow.

The Clinton's have always been, in my estimation, money-grubbing White Trash.

Except NOW they're Nouveau Riche.

Methinks you forget that some of the loony left decided that Clinton was the first black president. I'll go along with "trash".

 

[Zippyjuan]

Why do you think Obama is behind the 'conspiracy'? Why can't he just be one of their puppets?

This is like how 9/11 truthers get accused of thinking that George Bush planned 9/11. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds to the average truther? That just isn't how things work.

The reason you will never see the truth is because you refuse to understand how things work.

I believe it was you who said that there was a link between FactCheck and Obama- not me. Perhaps you can explain the relationship since you are the one who raised it. And then here you seem to be on the other side by saying he is not behind any of it. You have me confused.

 

[Pepsi]

Keyes v. Lingle: Case Dismissed; Forensic Examiner Disproves Online COLB

Another case that had been flying under the radar was Keyes v. Lingle, where the Constitution Party and Dr. Amb. Alan Keyes were petitioning against Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle, Chief Elections Officer Kevin B. Cronin, and various other Defendants as a means of holding an official accountable for determining Barack Hussein Obama’s eligibility.

http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=2299

 

[Zippyjuan]

The link really does not have much to say beyond the dismissal. There is a box with a series of quotes from some lady who tried to look at the certificate as posted on the internet (she did not have access to the original) and could not say one way or the other if it was indeed a genuine document. (well actually an image of an actual document). She does not say it is false, only that it cannot be conclusively called authentic. We still have no proof that he was not born in Hawaii.

 

[Pepsi]

Ture, but here is an open letter to Congress and the Senate. She is asking for people for support and help to get them to challange the issue.

Congress

http://drorly.blogspot.com/2008/12/open-letter-to-member-of-congress.html

Senate

http://drorly.blogspot.com/2008/12/open-letter-to-all-us-senators_28.html

 

[Number19]

The link really does not have much to say beyond the dismissal. There is a box with a series of quotes from some lady who tried to look at the certificate as posted on the internet (she did not have access to the original) and could not say one way or the other if it was indeed a genuine document. (well actually an image of an actual document). She does not say it is false, only that it cannot be conclusively called authentic. We still have no proof that he was not born in Hawaii.

This was an affidavit presented in court by a "forensic document examiner" and as such is much more than you imply and further brings into question the issue of forgery.

 

[Zippyjuan]

You are trying to read more into it than is there. And again, she did not examine any actual birth certificate document- only a scanned image posted on the internet.

Paragraph #4 of what she wrote:
"In my experience as a forensic examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain the definative finding of genuineness of non-genuineness. In this case, the examination of the vault birth certificate for President- Elect Obama would lay this issue to rest once and for all."

 

[Pepsi]

A Petition you can sing that will be sent to the Senate about Obama birth place.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/OurConstitution/index.html

 

[Zippyjuan]

Ture, but here is an open letter to Congress and the Senate. She is asking for people for support and help to get them to challange the issue.

Congress

http://drorly.blogspot.com/2008/12/open-letter-to-member-of-congress.html

Senate

http://drorly.blogspot.com/2008/12/open-letter-to-all-us-senators_28.html

That letter has some problems, the biggest of which is:

3. No proof that he was born of two parents of U.S. citizenship, with both owing allegiance to and being under the jurisdiction of the U.S., as required by law and/or the Constitution, in order to be a ‘natural-born citizen’. (actually he has freely admitted the opposite to be true, and therefore INELIGIBLE);

It is not a requirement to be a natural born citizen for both parents to be US citizens. Actually while it uses the term, the Constitution does not define a natural born citizen. That is generally taken to mean a person who was a citizen at their birth, not somebody who became on later as a naturalized citizen.

According to the Fourteenth Amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

[Number19]

You are trying to read more into it than is there. And again, she did not examine any actual birth certificate document- only a scanned image posted on the internet.

Paragraph #4 of what she wrote:
"In my experience as a forensic examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain the definative finding of genuineness of non-genuineness. In this case, the examination of the vault birth certificate for President- Elect Obama would lay this issue to rest once and for all."

Precisely. But the image posted to the public was presented as a copy of the original. The validity of this is in doubt and raises the question of why someone would post a forged image while claiming its authenticity.

No one, publicly, has seen the original birth certificate. What has supposedly been released is only a Certification of Live Birth. Two important items missing from the certification is the hospital and the certifying physician.

 

[Pepsi]

I like this letter:

Like it or not, rich or poor, great or strong, Democrat or Republican, Obama was born under the jurisdiction of Great Britain via Kenya. There is nothing conspiratorial about saying that. Obama has it posted on his own web site. Here’s what it says at Obama’s web portal, Fight The Smears:

When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children. (Emphasis added.)

There it is. Obama is telling you his status was “governed” by a foreign jurisdiction. This is no theory. This is a fact.

The people are subservient to the Document, The U.S. Constitutional, and if we don’t keep it that way, we have plenty of historical examples throughout history detailing exactly what will happen to us if the Document is defeated.

Regardless, should the people demand that Constitutional restrictions in Article 2, Section 1, be removed from the Document, they can lobby their political representatives to introduce an amendment, and if such amendment were to be ratified by three-quarters of either the state legislatures, or of constitutional conventions specially elected in each of the states, then they can have any President they like.

But as long as Article 2, Section 1, is controlling law, it’s those who are trying to attack all review of it who are the conspiracy theorists. That being said, let’s now take a look at two established and respected legal sources which define the term “natural born Citizen” as a person who is born in the United States to parents both of whom are “citizens”.

THE FRAMERS OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT

Despite popular belief, the 14th Amendment does not convey the status of “natural born Citizen” in its text. It just conveys the status of “Citizen”. And it’s very clear that in the pre-amendment Constitution, the Framers made a distinction between a “Citizen” and a “natural born Citizen”. The requirement to be a Senator or Representative is “Citizen”, but the requirement to be President is “natural born Citizen”.

From the 14th Amendment:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.”

But even as to this conveyance of citizenship, those who were responsible for drafting the 14th Amendment made it clear that - to them - the meaning of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” meant subject only to the jurisdiction thereof.

Here is the relevant textbook definition of natural born citizen. The following was published in 1758. This definition, added to all of the above, certainly establishes a rational legal basis to hold that Barack Obama is not a natural born Citizen. And more than that, it puts the burden on those who deny it to don the tin foil hat of despair and bring forthwith to the table of honest debate their own bed of authority to lie in:

§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children" (Emphasis added.)

That is what the founders understood natural born to mean. To be born inside the country and of parents who are citizens. It was a mixture of the two concepts of citizenships. How the king passed on his citizenship to his children, no matter where they were born, is also more of the same concept, and most applicable to a nation whose citizens are sovereigns.

Sticking with the facts, here are the three legal ways that a presidential hopeful can be disqualified from gaining office:

1. (dead issue for the 2008 election) State legislatures could pass laws instructing their Secretary of State offices or Board of Elections to verify the eligibility of presidential candidates before allowing their names to be placed on state ballots. As we noted earlier, states currently just add names of presidential candidates to their ballots as instructedby self-approved political parties.

2. Electors in the Electoral College refuse to cast votes for a candidate they are not sure meet the qualifications required to be president. Another dead issue since they have all ready voted.

3. During the counting of the Electoral College votes in the US Senate, the votes for a particular presidential candidate are challenged on the grounds that the candidate does not meet the qualifications required to be president.

As a concern constituent, about the reasonable doubt, that Barack Obama does in fact does not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a "natural-born citizen".I request that during the counting of the Electoral College votes in the US Senate, that you challenged on the grounds that he does not meet the qualifications required to be President, and request that he shows proof of being a "natural-born citizen

 

[Zippyjuan]

§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

What legal document does this come from? Isn't that actually French, not US? "The Law of Nations" by de Vattel? http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel.htm
You cannot use this to say who is and who is not a US Citizen or what the founding fathers thought. It is not relevant.

 

[Pepsi]

from here.

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress...-framers-and-in-treatise-relied-on-by-scalia/