Universal Healthcare

[JosephTheLibertarian]

You cannot start a medical clinic in your garage. Try and start a hospital and see how much it costs. Those are some very large costs of entry.

And why can't you?

 

[Kludge]

And why can't you?

I'm sure there's a law against it...

As a side note : Most all of our (LOCAL!) hospitals in Michigan are losing millions a year.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I'm sure there's a law against it...

As a side note : Most all of our (LOCAL!) hospitals in Michigan are losing millions a year.

Exactly. So what is free market about a law that prevents you from doing that? No one forces people to come to you for services. Being qualified has nothing to do err shouldn't have anything to do with your location. Doctors should be able to run their businesses out of their own houses. Let the people vote with their dollars!

 

[Kludge]

Exactly. So what is free market about a law that prevents you from doing that? No one forces people to come to you for services. Being qualified has nothing to do err shouldn't have anything to do wth your location. Doctors should be able to run their businesses out of their own houses.

(Devil's Advocate)

But doesn't it say in the Constitution that everyone has the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? If the Gov't (which is supposed to UPHOLD the Constitution) fails to provide healthcare (or at least sick-care) to ALL Americans, aren't we pissing on the law we libertarians so often quote?

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

(Devil's Advocate)

But doesn't it say in the Constitution that everyone has the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? If the Gov't (which is supposed to UPHOLD the Constitution) fails to provide healthcare (or at least sick-care) to ALL Americans, aren't we pissing on the law we libertarians so often quote?

I don't care what it says. The Constitution might advocate the US Postal Service, but I sure as hell do not. And socialized healthcare is a flawed policy, we would be hurting the people by not allowing them to freely operate in a free society and vote with their own dollars. Prove to me that free market healthcare is worse than socialized healthcare. And no, the current system is not a free market healthcare system, so I won't accept the status quo as evidence in any way.

 

[Kludge]

I don't care what it says. The Constitution might advocate the US Postal Service, but I sure as hell do not. And socialized healthcare is a flawed policy, we would be hurting the people by not allowing them to freely operate in a free society and vote with their own dollars. Prove to me that free market healthcare is worse than socialized healthcare. And no, the current system is not a free market healthcare system, so I won't accept the status quo as evidence in any way.

Oh suuuure... Give me an impossible task. There is no free market in the world (Less the private "under-the-table" bartering).

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Oh suuuure... Give me an impossible task. There is no free market in the world (Less the private "under-the-table" bartering).

depends. different degrees. There is no health freedom in the world, agreed.

 

[DriftWood]

You cannot start a medical clinic in your garage. Try and start a hospital and see how much it costs. Those are some very large costs of entry.

Yupp allot of that cost comes from govt regulations. The fact that doctors have to have degrees and certificates and the fact that patients cant buy drugs without perscriptions. These regulations effectively keep in place monopolies.

An ideal world these regulations would be scrapped and..

You would be free to start up a one man hospital in your garage, you would probably just get the poorest and most desperate of people as patients but if you actually where any good your reputation would spread and you could charge more. Patients could go to a pharmacist and choose whatever medicin he could afford. The cheap medicins might do the trick but not be as effective or have more side effects.

People should be free to buy medical advice and medicals from anyone they like. Reputation and price would sort out the good from the bad. That means that the poor would never afford the best service, but atleast in a free market they would get the best bang for the buck.

Cheers

 

[Banana]

For those suggesting that anyone be allowed to operate a hospitial out of the garage-

How would I have time and money to do my research on whether so and so doctor is good or not? When I have a broken leg, I don't want to ask my doctor if he has this and that certificate and qualifications to operate on me. I just want to be assured that any doctor who will operate, will do with full impact of Hippocratic oath and will hold up his end in the bargain, even if a mistake has been made.

I suspect this is why we had regulations in first place, to keep out the quacks. If we just privatized the "regulations", I would imagine this would have to be a monopoly or more likely a oligopoly for this to work as I wouldn't want to figure out which out of 1,000s of private watchdogs group I can trust to give the doctors the endorsement.

 

[nickcoons]

(Devil's Advocate)

But doesn't it say in the Constitution that everyone has the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? If the Gov't (which is supposed to UPHOLD the Constitution) fails to provide healthcare (or at least sick-care) to ALL Americans, aren't we pissing on the law we libertarians so often quote?

The government's job is not to provide those things, it is to prevent anyone from infringing on the individual's right to pursue them. A right to life means that no one can morally take my life. It does not mean that anyone is bound to provide me with life.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

For those suggesting that anyone be allowed to operate a hospitial out of the garage-

How would I have time and money to do my research on whether so and so doctor is good or not? When I have a broken leg, I don't want to ask my doctor if he has this and that certificate and qualifications to operate on me. I just want to be assured that any doctor who will operate, will do with full impact of Hippocratic oath and will hold up his end in the bargain, even if a mistake has been made.

I suspect this is why we had regulations in first place, to keep out the quacks. If we just privatized the "regulations", I would imagine this would have to be a monopoly or more likely a oligopoly for this to work as I wouldn't want to figure out which out of 1,000s of private watchdogs group I can trust to give the doctors the endorsement.

I don't care how you know or not. If you don't trust the person, then don't go. Is that such a fucking superior concept to you? Get a referral.

 

[nickcoons]

For those suggesting that anyone be allowed to operate a hospitial out of the garage-

How would I have time and money to do my research on whether so and so doctor is good or not? When I have a broken leg, I don't want to ask my doctor if he has this and that certificate and qualifications to operate on me. I just want to be assured that any doctor who will operate, will do with full impact of Hippocratic oath and will hold up his end in the bargain, even if a mistake has been made.

That's the sort of thing you research before you break your leg. Just as there are consumer guides for purchasing vehicles, choosing the right real-estate agent, etc., the market would provide consumer guides for doctors as well.

I suspect this is why we had regulations in first place, to keep out the quacks.

No it's not:

http://libertariannation.org/a/f12l3.html

 

[Banana]

That's the sort of thing you research before you break your leg. Just as there are consumer guides for purchasing vehicles, choosing the right real-estate agent, etc., the market would provide consumer guides for doctors as well.

While I would definitely want to research before I needed any care, I was thinking more about emergency care where you may have less control over due to urgency, and may depend on where you are, who is available to work on you, etc.

No it's not:

http://libertariannation.org/a/f12l3.html

Wow, that was very informative and it sounds like a great idea.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Remember,

1. government is the root of all problems
2. government does nothing right
3. we settle on the "essential" functions of government because we have no frame of reference

 

[nickcoons]

While I would definitely want to research before I needed any care, I was thinking more about emergency care where you may have less control over due to urgency, and may depend on where you are, who is available to work on you, etc.

Sure, and in situations where I was unfamiliar with a given doctor's reputation, I would probably go to standard emergency rooms, not to some guy's garage.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Remember,

1. government is the root of all problems
2. government does nothing right
3. we settle on the "essential" functions of government because we have no frame of reference

Some people think that the government can do things right and perfectly- they see it in 9/11. I certainly disagree with them on that though.