Ultimate putin interview!

[cyberrate]

That must be the single most fascist and infamous paragraph that ronpaulforums has ever witnessed. "Subversive activists" "agents" that is what all authoritarian governments say about the press they quash.If you sir don't believe in press freedom and are ok with the killings of the press you are a fascist. For all those of you who wonder Russia ranks 122 (with nearly the same score as Iran) in press freedom.

Look, there is no proof that Putin or any Russian official had anything to do with killings of journalists. Like he, him self once said about one of the journalists: "the death of this person has made more noise than anything ever published by him".
For example Litvinenko (who wasn't of course journalist but a writer) was poisoned just month before Russia-EU summit, and he was poisoned by the most expensive poison ever existed, and he was dying for a MONTH in front of every camera in the world. Is that something that Putin would do if he wanted to shut him up?
Besides how many journalists you know that were killed? 3-5 right? Do you know that there are newspapers and tv channels in Russia that make living out of criticizing Putin. Here is a short list: Новая Газета, Эхо Москвы, RTVI, RENTV. There are thousands of journalists working there.

Funny that you say that ....because eastern Europeans after cutting ties to their invaders have been enjoying an inmaginable degree of economical ,individual, and political freedom. They are quickly catching up with the rest of the Europeans.
The "defense system" while being a stupid idea is an ANTI-BALISTIC system, defensive in nature.Russia is just pissed off because they liked the status quo of a defensless eastern europe.
And lets remember that these countries were invaded till not long ago by the ussr and still suffer intrusions from Russia

None of the countries were invaded by USSR, you clearly are under the impression implied on you by MSM, most of the countries joined USSR to fight Hitler, when he was advancing. Besides I know for a fact that for example Baltic states literally have entire education system borrowed from USSR. In another words SU has been teaching them their own language for 60 years. Did you know that for example modern Estonia (former USSR republic) has entire infrastructure that people use every day (airport, rail road, roads, bridges, public schools, medical centers, TV tower) build by SU and Russia has never asked for any compensation for all of that. I wonder, how many TV towers has USA and allies build in Iraq? So invasion/occupation is definitely not the right word here.

No economic, civil, individual and political liberties. Extermination of chechens. Pure authoritarianism. A KGB killer as a strongman. Meddling in the affairs of eastern european countries. These are the hallmarks of modern Russia. A nightmare for any freedom loving person in the world. Supporting those policies are the same or worse than being a neo-con.

Chechens are not exterminated.

 

[bill50]

None of the countries were invaded by USSR, you clearly are under the impression implied on you by MSM, most of the countries joined USSR to fight Hitler, when he was advancing.

Uhhhhhhh..I hate to burst your bubble but the USSR after the Bolshevik revolution was killing a hell of alot more people than Hitler. The USSR was part of the "Axis of Evil" before the US joined the war. They were making treaties with the Nazis over who got to conquer what. I would tell you to take a history class, but history lies and tells you that the USSR was a great country that opposed the killing of Hitler when in fact they were killing many more people and sending their Jews to Germany for execution.

 

[revolutionisnow]

The soviets invaded Poland about the same time as Germany did. WW2 was a war of communists vs nationalists/fascists, and the communists won. They took over about half of Europe and Asia by the time the dust had settled. Look at East Germany if you want to get a picture of the type of society and government the supposed "good guys" installed.

 

[cyberrate]

Uhhhhhhh..I hate to burst your bubble but the USSR after the Bolshevik revolution was killing a hell of alot more people than Hitler. The USSR was part of the "Axis of Evil" before the US joined the war. They were making treaties with the Nazis over who got to conquer what. I would tell you to take a history class, but history lies and tells you that the USSR was a great country that opposed the killing of Hitler when in fact they were killing many more people and sending their Jews to Germany for execution.

I don't believe that any of this ever happened. Can you prove it? I mean I know that Auschwitz was a concentration camp where about 1 mil. of Jews were executed by Hitler. I know that Stalin was repressing people for their point of view. Those are historical facts. But I seriously doubt that SU ever killed more than Hitler/ III Reich. Besides did you know that Poland for a fact and possibly some other big European countries had similar agreements with Hitler, it's just that only Russia decided not to keep them secret after the collapse of SU.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

^? The scholarly consensus is that Stalin alone killed around 20 million people, if you include engineered famines and death from deportation/exile.

Did anyone hear know that it has become illegal in Russia to equate Hitler with Stalin? It's shocking to me that RPF members are supporting this kind of a regime.

 

[CTAC]

^? The scholarly consensus is that Stalin alone killed around 20 million people, if you include engineered famines and death from deportation/exile.

Around 20 million sentenced to death, imprisoned, deported for political reasons. See, how easily it turns into 20 million dead people? They are all dead by now, anyway.

Did anyone hear know that it has become illegal in Russia to equate Hitler with Stalin? It's shocking to me that RPF members are supporting this kind of a regime.

I think it is just because reasonable people do not believe into such lies. There are laws in Russia against nazi propaganda, but nothing like you mentioned.

You might be referring to a anti-fascist propaganda law recently passed in the UN that was proposed by Russia. The United States was the only country that voted against it.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

^It's becoming apparent you don't know what you're talking about

Why waste time coming to a Ron Paul Forum trying to restore the good name of Joe Stalin?

 

[cyberrate]

^It's becoming apparent you don't know what you're talking about

Well if you do, perhaps you can share with us your outstanding evidence or research with dates, references and locations?

Why waste time coming to a Ron Paul Forum trying to restore the good name of Joe Stalin?

I don't think that CTAC is trying to restore the name of Stalin. It's just that MSM and US foreign policy has been recently using Stalin to make public around the world fear Russia. And that is what Ron Paul is against, he is against interfering with other nations relations, isn't he? As for comparing Hitler with Stalin I can say that while Hitler's crimes were well documented and proved in court, none of alleged Stalin's crimes were ever proved. Personally I don't like Stalin but I hate when someone is trying to present Stalin's regime as a general SU policy. After all, when he went there was not much of repressions/deportations.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

I don't think that CTAC is trying to restore the name of Stalin. It's just that MSM and US foreign policy has been recently using Stalin to make public around the world fear Russia. And that is what Ron Paul is against, he is against interfering with other nations relations, isn't he? As for comparing Hitler with Stalin I can say that while Hitler's crimes were well documented and proved in court, none of alleged Stalin's crimes were ever proved. Personally I don't like Stalin but I hate when someone is trying to present Stalin's regime as a general SU policy. After all, when he went there was not much of repressions/deportations.

Because he won the war, yes, he never went to trial. Victor's justice. But these facts come from SOVIET sources

 

[CTAC]

Because he won the war, yes, he never went to trial. Victor's justice. But these facts come from SOVIET sources

Well if you do, perhaps you can share with us your outstanding evidence or research with dates, references and locations?

Show us your SOVIET sources.

 

[cyberrate]

Because he won the war, yes, he never went to trial. Victor's justice. But these facts come from SOVIET sources

It makes no difference why he never went to trial. The III Reich was officially and legally convicted in Nuremberg which allows us to state that they were a mass-murderers. Why should we state the same about Stalin who never went to trial while our main info about him comes from Hollywood films and MSM (oh and of course your secret SOVIET sources)? You see there are a lot of rubbish around about Stalin and SU, I've seen films like Soviet Story which is a complete BS and propaganda but people in Europe believe it 100% because it suits their opinion on SU and Stalin. Don't get me wrong tho I do my self think that he was a murderer and killed a lot of Russian elite and free thinkers, but he did it secretly and clearly not 20 mil. of them. In my opinion 20 mil is probably the number of people affected by Stalin's repressions which also includes members of families of people repressed.

Let me explain to you how it works: MSM says: "...were sent to Siberia" and we immidiatly think "oh that's the end, we never hear from them again" but in fact Siberia as a punishment is very overrated, it doesn't necessarily mean "sent to prison in Siberia" it might be just some territory which is not very populated like Irkutsk oblast where Stalin sent about 90 000 Baltic people, they were sent to the territory and not to prison, but people in Baltic states blindly believe that they were sent to die in prison and labor camps which is not true. By the way later most of those people returned home and that is also extremely unpopular information in Baltic states now. Let me ask you: did you know that there are people (Russian and Eskimos) who live in Siberia by their own will for hundreds of years and don't want to go anywhere?

 

[dimaniak]

Let me ask you: did you know that there are people (Russian and Eskimos) who live in Siberia by their own will for hundreds of years and don't want to go anywhere?

They don't have money to go anywhere.

 

[cyberrate]

They don't have money to go anywhere.

Strangely enough I see them on vacation every year in Thailand and Turkey. (Well not Eskimos abviously)

 

[dimaniak]

Strangely enough I see them on vacation every year in Thailand and Turkey. (Well not Eskimos abviously)

They are probably from moscow or work in oil industry.

 

[CTAC]

They don't have money to go anywhere.

Ukrainians have even less money, but it did not stop millions to flee from their 'democracy'. The Ukraine lost around 12% of the population since 'independence' fell upon their heads.

Siberian cities like Omsk and Novosibirsk have population loss that is no different from anywhere else in Russia due to the aging population. Other cities, like Tomsk, has significant population growth.

 

[cyberrate]

They are probably from moscow or work in oil industry.

Moscow is not Siberia and I meant people from Siberia in my previous post. Pretty much everyone who lives in Siberia this way or another works in oil industry. But that doesn't make any difference, I mean I do understand that people in Siberia live there mostly because of Oil industry, but that is how free market works isn't it?

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

It makes no difference why he never went to trial. The III Reich was officially and legally convicted in Nuremberg which allows us to state that they were a mass-murderers. Why should we state the same about Stalin who never went to trial while our main info about him comes from Hollywood films and MSM (oh and of course your secret SOVIET sources)? You see there are a lot of rubbish around about Stalin and SU, I've seen films like Soviet Story which is a complete BS and propaganda but people in Europe believe it 100% because it suits their opinion on SU and Stalin. Don't get me wrong tho I do my self think that he was a murderer and killed a lot of Russian elite and free thinkers, but he did it secretly and clearly not 20 mil. of them. In my opinion 20 mil is probably the number of people affected by Stalin's repressions which also includes members of families of people repressed.

Let me explain to you how it works: MSM says: "...were sent to Siberia" and we immidiatly think "oh that's the end, we never hear from them again" but in fact Siberia as a punishment is very overrated, it doesn't necessarily mean "sent to prison in Siberia" it might be just some territory which is not very populated like Irkutsk oblast where Stalin sent about 90 000 Baltic people, they were sent to the territory and not to prison, but people in Baltic states blindly believe that they were sent to die in prison and labor camps which is not true. By the way later most of those people returned home and that is also extremely unpopular information in Baltic states now. Let me ask you: did you know that there are people (Russian and Eskimos) who live in Siberia by their own will for hundreds of years and don't want to go anywhere?

I guess we can't call Genghis Khan a mass-murdering SOB either since he never went to trial

Ask all the people who ACTUALLY WELCOMED THE NAZIS into Eastern Europe, at least initially, because they hated Soviet rule so much.

Have you read Simon Sebag-Montefiore? Robert Conquest? Heard of the declassified NKVD archives, which list about 3 million "official" victims, not including families and deportations?

 

[cyberrate]

I guess we can't call Genghis Khan a mass-murdering SOB either since he never went to trial

Demagogic approach. We were talking about 2 regimes that took place not long ago, when trials have been already invented.

Ask all the people who ACTUALLY WELCOMED THE NAZIS into Eastern Europe, at least initially, because they hated Soviet rule so much.

... or were tricked by Nazi propaganda. Those people are called collaborators.

Have you read Simon Sebag-Montefiore? Robert Conquest? Heard of the declassified NKVD archives, which list about 3 million "official" victims, not including families and deportations?

To answer your question: no, I haven't. Is that your SOVIET sources?
Anyway, you see how 20 mil. becomes 3? But I understand, it's Stalin we are talking about so why not add extra 17 mil.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

Demagogic approach. We were talking about 2 regimes that took place not long ago, when trials have been already invented.


... or were tricked by Nazi propaganda. Those people are called collaborators.


To answer your question: no, I haven't. Is that your SOVIET sources?
Anyway, you see how 20 mil. becomes 3? But I understand, it's Stalin we are talking about so why not add extra 17 mil.

No, the 3 million is only "official" victims which did not include family members. So that 3 million could easily become 12 million if the average family is 4 people. It also did not include the great famines, which many agree were engineered or at least ignored by the Kremlin.

Why are you pushing this issue? What could you possibly gain from it?

 

[CTAC]

No, the 3 million is only "official" victims which did not include family members. So that 3 million could easily become 12 million if the average family is 4 people.

Soviet Union had very good records as any other totalitarian state. They did not have modern justice systems, but nevertheless everyone was sentenced personally. Relatives of the 'people's enemy' had some restricions like banning from certain jobs, or places to live, but they were not executed automatically without counting.

3 million in that list are for the period of 30 years. That includes WWII, two Russian-Japan wars, Winter War (Finland). Army deserters, nazi supporters, spies. That also includes common crimes like murders and corruption, punishable by death at that time.

Why are you pushing this issue? What could you possibly gain from it?

You should ask this question yourself. What are you doing here spreading propaganda lies about Stalin?

Inflated cimes of the past are used to justify modern crimes.