Ultimate putin interview!

[Zippyjuan]

Do countries with friendly intentions towards good relations with their neighbors use energy blackmail to try to influence them?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0103/p01s04-woeu.html

Russia-Ukraine gas standoff
With 80 percent of Russian gas exports flowing through Ukraine, wintry Europe could be hard hit.

Page 1 of 2

By Fred Weir | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

MOSCOW –
Russian natural gas supplies to Europe, used to heat homes and businesses, fell sharply Monday as a pricing dispute between Russia and Ukraine turned nasty.
Monday, the Russian energy giant Gazprom cut off Ukraine's share of the gas flowing through the Friendship Pipeline. The pipeline carries about 80 percent of Russian gas exports through Ukraine to the West.

Russia says Ukraine is now "stealing" its share from Europe. Ukrainian officials deny it, but Serbia lost half of its gas supplies, forcing rationing and some industries to switch to oil. Hungary, Croatia, and Slovakia also reported a 30 percent drop in supplies Monday. By late Monday, Russia appeared to back down, vowing to restore full gas supplies to Europe by Tuesday night.


The Russian-Ukraine gas-price quarrel is stirring political passions on both sides and threatens to escalate into a much wider confrontation, experts warn. The gas conflict has its roots in Ukraine asserting its independence from Russia a year ago.

Moscow says Kiev should follow the logic of the "Orange Revolution," in which Ukrainians broke free from Russian influence, and accept that the days of Soviet-era energy subsidies must end. Ukraine, while agreeing in principle to higher gas rates, argues that the nearly five-fold price hike demanded by Moscow is unfair, abrupt, and politically motivated.

"Everybody understands that this is not about market pricing, it's pure politics," Oleksander Shushko, an analyst with the independent Institute of Euro-Atlantic Integration in Kiev. He says that the crisis may do great harm to Ukraine's energy-intensive economy in the short-run, but will show Ukrainians the need to wean the country's economy from dependence on Russia. "Unless we resolve this on our terms," he says, "it's clear that Russia will be able to play this card against us anytime it wants to."

The crisis erupted on the same day Russia assumed chairmanship of the Group of Eight (G-8) market-driven democracies, a high-profile position which Moscow has pledged to use to promote global "energy security."

German and US officials criticized the Russian cutoff as undermining its credibility as a European supplier. "Such an abrupt step creates insecurity in the energy sector in the region and raises serious questions about the use of energy to exert political pressure," said a statement released by the US State Department.

Gazprom, a state-run monopoly, set the 2006 price of gas for Ukraine at almost $230 per thousand cubic meters, up from $50 under an old contract that Kiev claims is still in force. Moscow says that's in line with the average $240 paid for Russian gas in the European Union. But Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko said Sunday that price "is unacceptable, because it is economically unfounded." Mr. Yushchenko has suggested $80 would be an acceptable new price.

Loyal Belarus pays just $47

Russia has long provided its former Soviet neighbors with cheap energy in return for political loyalty and economic preferences. The Baltic states of Latvia and Estonia - now EU and NATO members - pay $110 for the same amount of Russian gas. Russia's loyal ally, Belarus, pays just $47.

In late 2005, Gazprom said it charged its customers in Western Europe an average of $135 per 1,000 cubic meters, but expected that figure to rise to about $255 this year. Poland won't say what it pays, but media reports have said it pays between $200-$250, according to The Associated Press. Bulgaria now pays $180 per 1,000 cubic meters, but is expected to pay between $230-$260 in 2006.

About a third of Ukraine's gas is supplied by Russia, while Ukraine produces about 20 percent of its own needs. The remainder comes from former Soviet Turkmenistan, via Russian pipelines. Monday, Gazprom reportedly cut off Ukraine supplies from Turkmenistan, too.

http://www.nysun.com/foreign/russia-cuts-oil-supply-to-czechs/81908/

BERLIN — Russian oil supplies to the Czech Republic have been cut by almost half after Prague agreed to host part of America's controversial missile defense shield.

Czech officials have sought an explanation from Moscow about the reduction in supply, fearing that it could be retaliation for the radar base deal, signed last Tuesday.

A spokesman for the Czech trade ministry, Tomas Bartovsky, said yesterday that Russia had ruled out "political reasons" for the reduction and had blamed negotiations between suppliers for the problem.

But the Czech prime minister, Mirek Topolanek, was sceptical.

"I want to believe reasons which the Russian supplier states are only technical," he said.

The drop in Russian oil supplies coincided with the visit of Secretary of State Rice to Prague to sign the missile shield agreement, which Moscow fiercely opposes.

As the ink dried on the deal, which will provide radar control for an American silo of interceptor missiles due to be based in Poland, oil flow through the Druzhba — or Friendship — pipeline began to ebb.

Business leaders in the Czech Republic, which gets 70% of its oil from Russian deliveries, were reported to be unsettled after the cuts, fearing a prolonged energy war with Russia. Russia's vast natural resources have played a key part of its foreign policy strategy in the recent past.

Both Ukraine and Georgia, which have recently sought to distance themselves from Russian influence, have accused Moscow of "energy blackmail" designed to curb their independent spirit.

Russia briefly cut off all gas supplies to Ukraine in 2006, following a price dispute.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news_live/1173366003.98/

Lithuania seeks EU help to resume oil flow from Russia
08 March 2007, 17:07 CET
(VILNIUS) - The EU Commissioner for energy Andris Piebalgs has promised to discuss with Russia the reopening of an important oil pipeline to Lithuania, a government spokesman here said on Thursday.

EU and Russian leaders are due to hold a summit meeting on May 18 in the Russian city of Samara and the Druzhba-1 pipeline, which feeds Russian oil to Lithuania's Mazeikiu oil refinery will be a "key topic" for discussion, the government's information bureau said in a statement.

Lithuanian Prime Minister Gediminas Kirkilas got the assurance from Piebalgs on the sidelines of an EU summit in Brussels.

"This should be an example of Russia's credibility in the energy area," the statement quoted Piebalgs as saying after he met with Kirkilas.

The Druzhba-1 pipeline, which also feeds other facilities in the Baltic region, was shut down in July last year after a section of the Soviet-era duct ruptured in western Russia.

The halt in oil supplies came just weeks after Polish oil group PKN Orlen sealed a deal with Russian oil group Yukos to buy the Mazeikiu complex, apparently to the annoyance of Moscow which wanted the Baltic oil facility to be sold to a Russian company.

Since the shutdown, Mazeikiu, which is the only oil refining facility in the Baltic states, has had to bring in crude via an offshore terminal at Butinge, a more expensive way of transporting the oil.

As a result Mazeikiu's profits last year shrank five fold to 55.6 million euros compared with 2005.

 

[porcupine]

If you knew the slightest little bit of anything about Putin, you wouldn't be impressed. Sure, he claims to not have imperialist ambitions. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[max]

Do countries with friendly intentions towards good relations with their neighbors use energy blackmail to try to influence them?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0103/p01s04-woeu.html


http://www.nysun.com/foreign/russia-cuts-oil-supply-to-czechs/81908/


http://www.eubusiness.com/news_live/1173366003.98/

What you fail to realize is that ALL of those countries mentioned are USA puppets and are being used to encircle and threaten Russia. Don't blame Russia for using some of its economic muscle in SELF DEFENSE

 

[Zippyjuan]

Maybe it was as much that they DID NOT WANT to be under Russian influence anymore more than they somehow were forced to become puppets of the US? I believe their leaders were freely choosen by their people- were they not? When the Soviet Union fell, they wanted independence.

Instead, he chose to bring his troops out of Georgia once the Geogian war maxchine was dismantled.

Why does Russia still have troops in Georgia?

 

[Kotin]

I'm sorry but Putin is a badass.

 

[max]

Maybe it was as much that they DID NOT WANT to be under Russian influence anymore more than they somehow were forced to become puppets of the US? I believe their leaders were freely choosen by their people- were they not? When the Soviet Union fell, they wanted independence.


Why does Russia still have troops in Georgia?

Your history is all wrong. After the Soviet Union disintegrated...Russia has NEVER...not once....tried to bring former republics or satellite states back under its influence. Thats a fact.

It is always the US and CIA that insists on playing nations as if they were chess pieces. Instead of becoming friends and equal partners with Russia....our policy was to place stooges in charge of these nations and then use them to encircle and threaten Russia. The goal was to weaken Russia itself so as to absorb it into EU and NWO.

But PUtin and friends are believers in sovereignty and refuse to sell their nation out (like the drunk Yeltsin did)....Thats why we are hearing all this anti-Russian propaganda..

In short, the neo-cons HATE Putin and Russia for the same reason they hate Ron Paul.......They do not believe in national sovereignty...neither for Russia nor for USA

 

[down-under]

Max, Putin a believer of national sovereignty? ,give me a break. He is an imperialist.
Russia is a meddler of the internal affairs of former soviet satellites and republics. In Moldavia they back a break-away region made out of thugs, in Georgia they armed the by then Abkhazian minority which massacred 10-30thousand georgians and ethnically cleansed much of the rest. In the Ukraine, Russia was probably involved in the poissoning of yushenko and has hold the Ukrainians at ransom on energy supplies (payback for not supporting their guy) . The rest of the former satellites are still fearful and resentfull of the Russian ways which is the reason they have all tried to join the EU and NATO.
Ask yourselfs why eastern-european countries detest and fear so much Russia and try to be allies of the US and europe. It is quite clear why: in that part of the world, the bully, the empire has been Russia.

Understand that the US is not the only country doing harm with its foreign policy and that "the enemy of my enemy of my friend" is not a solid moral and intellectual argument.
And let's not forget Russia's itself where journalists are threatened and killed for reporting the truth (one reporter in inghustia was just killed 1-2 weeks ago), where business freedom matches that of Iran and where democracy only exists on paper....

 

[Malakai]

Where are you from?

I definitely agree with you from a historical standpoint.

 

[down-under]

Where are you from?

I definitely agree with you from a historical standpoint.

Im from a Spanish and Persian background and I live in Australia

 

[max]

In the Ukraine, Russia was probably involved in the poissoning of yushenko and has hold the Ukrainians at ransom on energy supplies (payback for not supporting their guy) . The rest of the former satellites are still fearful and resentfull of the Russian ways which is the reason they have all tried to join the EU and NATO.
Ask yourselfs why eastern-european countries detest and fear so much Russia and try to be allies of the US and europe. It is quite clear why: in that part of the world, the bully, the empire has been Russia.

.............And let's not forget Russia's itself where journalists are threatened and killed for reporting the truth (one reporter in inghustia was just killed 1-2 weeks ago), where business freedom matches that of Iran and where democracy only exists on paper....

You are regurgitating pure propaganda.

1. Yushenko is a brutal CIA thug and there is no proof that he was ever poisoned. It was a PR stunt to blame Russia. The bought and paid for Yushenko has turned Ukraine into a hostile western puppet.

2. There are CIA agent "journalists" working to subvert Russia. Russia has every right to crack down on treasonous propagandists and "democracy" advocates whose idea of democracy is to overthrow the government by propaganda and install a western puppet in Putin's place.

3. Eastern leaders seek to become part of the US/EU orbit not because they fear Russia....but because they are bought and paid for whores of "the West"....The idea that Poland and Czech need "missile defense" against Iran is ludicrous! It is a direct provacation of Russia.....

4. Your cliams of "genocide" against the Georgians by the Abkazians is pure fiction. How can a tiny enclave of 100,000 vilaggers carry out "genocide" against a Georgian state that is 100 times larger and armed to the teeth??? Where do u get this shit from?..Oh...thats right...Rupert Murdoch owns much of Zionist Austrailia's media!

Stop regurgitating Zionist propaganda and expand your scope of information.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Warsaw - They live in a historically battered region between West and East, the Rhine and the Volga, Berlin and Moscow. Now, as Russian tanks rumble in Georgia, the states of "new Europe" are urging the West to rethink its relationship with Russia and are pushing for new security and strong measures against an aggressive Moscow they say they know all too well.

From Poland to Ukraine, the Czech Republic to Bulgaria, Russia's invasion of Georgia with tanks, troops, and planes is described as a test of Western resolve. The former Soviet states are vowing to thwart Russian aims – in deals with the European Union, in a missile-defense pact with the US, and in trade and diplomacy.

Polish and Baltic officials, most of whom grew up under Soviet occupation, have long chafed at being described in Western Europe as too "Russia-phobic" in their oft-repeated warnings about Moscow's intentions. But now in this gritty capital, the refrain is, "We told you so."
The strength of Polish feeling against Russia is measured by the quick completion of a US missile defense pact last week, after 18 months of wrangling in Warsaw and Washington. While the US has stoutly argued that the missiles were meant as a shield against rogue attacks from Iran, their strategic value here has apparently shifted. Polish opposition to hosting 10 proposed missile silos dropped by 30 percent in the week after Russia's military move in Georgia, according to polls in Warsaw.
"The events in the Caucasus show clearly that such security guarantees are indispensable," said Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk.

Ukrainian officials now say they encourage talks with the US on a similar shield. The suggestion over the weekend came despite Russian deputy military chief Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn's warning that Poland's missile shield would expose it to a Russian attack. "Poland, by deploying ... is exposing itself to a strike – 100 percent," said General Nogovitsyn.

In recent years "new" Europe has tussled with "old," with Germany in particular, over NATO expansion for Georgia – most recently in April at the alliance summit in Bucharest, Romania, where Berlin opposed it. Former Soviet states now in NATO argue that Western ideas about liberal reform in Russia were naive at best and self-serving at worst: They see Vladimir Putin's Russia as disparaging civil society, reverting to brute strength with small nations, seeking empire, and exploiting divisions inside Europe, and between Europe and the US. Russia is not a 'status quo' power under Mr. Putin, they say, but rather willing to change principles in pursuit of greatness.

Most Poles will agree that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili made a serious mistake in trying to enter South Ossetia with force. But they feel it was an error that Russia seized upon in a planned operation to annex Ossetia and Abkhazia, where they say a new millionaire class in Moscow is rapidly buying up coastal property.

"When we woke up and saw Russian tanks in Georgia, we knew very well what this meant," says Bartosz Weglarczyk, foreign editor of Gazeta Wyborcza. "The Russian talk about helping others and bringing peace to Georgia.... We don't buy it. When did Moscow ever enter a country without 'bringing peace?'

"Now it is back to basics," he adds. "For us, it is all about staying out of the Russian sphere. We forgot about Russia for a decade. Now as Frankenstein is being reassembled under a former KGB chief, we remember it again."
But few Poles believe Moscow is ready to use military force as far east as Poland, lacking the discipline required by the grand ideas of Marxism and shown in Soviet days. "The Russians want to keep their money, their property in Monaco and Palm Beach, and have a good life," says one official. Moscow will, however, seek to exploit weakness and divisions in the West, say Polish diplomats, officials, and citizens, in a new type of energy and economic war of which Georgia is an example.

Five presidents from East Europe traveled to Georgia last week to show solidarity and to challenge Russia. East European states are reexamining their policy of allowing dual passports that can be used by Russia as a reason for entering their country, as was done in South Ossetia. Ukraine wants to limit the Russian Navy's use of its ports. EU members from the East vow to block new Russian efforts for a liberal trade deal. Polish President Lech Kaczynski criticized Germany and France for mollifying Russia in order to protect commercial interests. Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves argues vociferously that Georgia should still be admitted to NATO.

E. Europeans saw Georgia coming

The question of NATO membership remains sensitive in East Europe. Many Poles say they understand the aspirations of Georgians to join, and feel sympathy that those aspirations have been dashed. The question for small states in Russia's backyard is not a neutral one – for a small country being eyed by a powerful Russia seeking to expand its influence.

"The Eastern Europeans totally saw this [Russian resurgence] coming," says former US ambassador to Romania, James Rosapepe. "In Romania the attitude was, we have to get into NATO before Russian power returns."

German officials and many European NATO officials argue that it is simply unrealistic to provoke Russia by allowing its immediate neighbors into the alliance. They say Russia's actions in Georgia vindicates this point. Berlin takes a very careful and consistent position on the importance of understanding Moscow, one Western diplomat points out.

Yet Polish officials are quick to point out that Germany was the most powerful and insistent voice throughout the 1990s for getting Poland into NATO – as a way to create a buffer zone between Germany and Russia. Now that Poland is in NATO, Germany has changed its tune, they say, showing indifference to Poland's own interests in a similar buffer zone. They argue it is in Germany's commercial interest to advocate balanced restraint and sensitivity to Moscow.

Poland's view: 'While America slept'

In the immediate years after Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev decided to release Eastern Europe from the Soviet bloc, US efforts to expand NATO were robust. Yet as Russian power appeared to be waning, and as the US became involved in a war on terror and in Iraq, Eastern Europe and the Caucasus received less and less attention and material support from the US and Western Europe – even as it became clearer in the East that Russia under Putin was gaining strength with every rise in the cost of a barrel of oil.

So popular in Poland was the US after the cold war that Poles joked that their country was the 51st state. Yet the enthusiasm has waned somewhat during the Iraq war; Poles sent troops but has removed them. Here there's a widespread view that Iraq was a mistake for the Americans.

"Poles look at the events transpiring in Georgia from the perspective of 'while America slept,'" says James Hooper, a former senior US diplomat based in Warsaw. "They understand that Russia's mainspring expansionist impulse can be deflected only by a steady US policy in managing European security affairs, and thus pin everything on American power, purpose and resolve."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0818/p01s01-woeu.html

They do not wish to be with Russia- it is not becase they are "whores" of the west.

Do the Georgian provinces wish to be part of Russia? The latest from them as of September 12th (yes, I read Putin's statement at the start of the article- that should show you it is not a western biased journalist- it is from China and Putin does have valid points there):
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-09/12/content_9934939.htm

Earlier in the day, South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity said the republic planned to merge with the Russian province of North Ossetia and become part of Russia, a statement he later withdrew.

Meanwhile, Abkhaz leader Sergei Bagpash said Abkhazia would not try to obtain associated territory status with Russia but would seek to join the Commonwealth of Independent States, the alliance of ex-Soviet states, and the Russia-Belarus Union State.

They are not exactly rushing to embrace Russia fully either.

 

[DAFTEK]

I don't trust Russia just because i fought communists and been threw some bad experience with my family many many years ago, when the wall came down much of the old mentality was still there. But i have to admit Putin has done some good work for his people and most of Russia likes him except the ones hungry for communist power.

Max, meeds or not made some good points and i have to agree with him on a few things

 

[Zippyjuan]

I would certainly agree that Putin is a very smart and savy leader. So is Ahmudijad if you listen to what they say and not just the media's spin on it. But I do not see how either of their policies would make them heroes to those who favor libertarianism- they do not support minimal government involvement in people's lives and people's freedom to do almost whatever they want (there is no such thing as absolute freedom). They are not for free markets but would rather that business be subordinate to the state.

Here is a good piece of how shrewdly he played the Georgian crisis so far (which I have said was Georgia's fault): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4525885.ece

Vladimir Putin's mastery checkmates the West
Russia has been biding its time, but its victory in Georgia has been brutal - and brilliantMichael Binyon
Russia accused of cluster bomb abuse | Video: Journalists attacked in Ossetia | Rice in Georgia amid scorched earth claims

The cartoon images have shown Russia as an angry bear, stretching out a claw to maul Georgia. Russia is certainly angry, and, like a beast provoked, has bared its teeth. But it is the wrong stereotype. What the world has seen last week is a brilliant and brutal display of Russia's national game, chess. And Moscow has just declared checkmate.

Chess is a slow game. One has to be ready to ignore provocations, lose a few pawns and turn the hubris of others into their own entrapment. For years there has been rising resentment within Russia. Some of this is inevitable: the loss of empire, a burning sense of grievance and the fear that in the 1990s, amid domestic chaos and economic collapse, Russia's views no longer mattered.

A generalised resentment, similar to the sour undercurrents of Weimar Germany, began to focus on specific issues: the nonchalance of the Clinton Administration about Russian sensitivities, especially over the Balkans and in opening Nato's door to former Warsaw Pact members; the neo-conservative agenda of the early Bush years that saw no role for Russia in its global agenda; and Washington's ingratitude after 9/11 for vital Kremlin support over terrorism, Afghanistan and intelligence on extremism.

More infuriating was Western encouragement of “freedom” in the former Soviet satellite states that gave carte blanche to forces long hostile to Russia. In the Baltic states, Soviet occupation could be portrayed as worse than the Nazis. EU commissioners from new member states could target Russian policies. Populists in Eastern Europe could ride to power on anti-Russian rhetoric emboldened by Western applause for their fluency in English.

Nowhere was such taunting more wounding than in Ukraine and Georgia, two countries long part of the Russian Empire, whose history, religion and culture were so intertwined with Russia's. Moscow tried, disastrously, to check Western, and particularly American, influence in Ukraine. The clumsy meddling led to the Orange Revolution.

Georgia was a different matter. Relations were always mercurial, but Eduard Shevardnadze, the wily former Soviet Foreign Minister, knew how to keep atavistic animosities in check. Not so his brash successor, Mikheil Saakashvili. From then on, hubris was Tbilisi's undoing.

It was not simply the dismissive rhetoric, the open door to US advisers or the economic illiteracy in forgetting dependence on Russian energy and remittance from across the border; it was the determined attempt to make Georgia a US regional ally and outpost of US influence.

Big powers do not like other big powers poaching. This may not be moral or fair but it is reality, and one that underpins the Security Council veto. The Monroe Doctrine - “hands off the Americas” - has been policy in Washington for 200 years. The US is ready to risk war to keep out not only other powers but hostile ideologies - in Cuba and Nicaragua.

Vladimir Putin lost several pawns on the chessboard - Kosovo, Iraq, Nato membership for the Baltic states, US renunciation of the ABM treaty, US missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic. But he waited.

The trap was set in Georgia. When President Saakashvili blundered into South Ossetia, sending in an army to shell, kill and maim on a vicious scale (against US advice and his promised word), Russia was waiting.

It was not only Mr Saakashvili who thought that he had the distraction of the Olympics to cover him; the Kremlin also knew that Mr Bush was watching basketball, and, in the longer term, that the US army was fully engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan. From the day that the Russian tank brigade raced through the tunnel into South Ossetia, Russia has not made one wrong move. Mr Bush's remarks yesterday notwithstanding, In five days it turned an overreaching blunder by a Western-backed opponent into a devastating exposure of Western impotence, dithering and double standards on respecting national sovereignty (viz Iraq).

The attack was short, sharp and deadly - enough to send the Georgians fleeing in humiliating panic, their rout captured by global television. The destruction was enough to hurt, but not so much that the world would be roused in fury. The timing of the ceasefire was precise: just hours before President Sarkozy could voice Western anger. Moscow made clear that it retained the initiative. And despite sporadic breaches - on both sides - Russia has blunted Georgian charges that this is a war of annihilation.

Moscow can also counter Georgian PR, the last weapon left to Tbilisi. Human rights? Look at what Georgia has done in South Ossetia (and also in Abkhazia). National sovereignty? Look at the detachment of Kosovo from Serbia. False pretexts? Look at Ronald Reagan's invasion of Grenada to “rescue” US medical students. Western outrage? Look at the confused cacophony.

There are lessons everywhere. To the former Soviet republics - remember your geography. To Nato - do you still want to incorporate Caucasian vendettas into your alliance? To Tbilisi - do you want to keep a President who brought this on you? To Washington - does Russia's voice still count for nothing? Like it or not, it counts for a lot.

He is aware that the power of the future will belong to those who control the energy- and the US and Europe are at the mercy of foreign suppliers- so he is securing as many resources and distribution channels as he can. China too is seeking energy sources- but for economic power, not political as Russia is. We need other countries much more than they really need us- and we have not come to terms with that yet- for low priced goods, for energy, and for capital to keep our economy going so we can buy things from somebody else. We used to be the world's supplier of so many things. The only real power we have is our military- which we have been misusing, and our ideals of freedom- which are starting to slip away. If there is to be a New World Order, the US will not be at the center of it- unless we make some serious changes- difficult changes.

We have become fat and lazy and complacent. How we answer to the challenges we face will decide our future- as just another country or an example of what can be.

 

[down-under]

What a troll.

You are regurgitating pure propaganda.

1. Yushenko is a brutal CIA thug and there is no proof that he was ever poisoned. It was a PR stunt to blame Russia. The bought and paid for Yushenko has turned Ukraine into a hostile western puppet.

Calling Yushenko a puppet is quite laughable comming from a person that believes that Ukraine and the rest of the ex-soviet states should do as Putin pleases. Yushenko does a great service for the liberties of its people in getting away from Russia and closer into Europe.
And yes, there is proof Yushenko was poissoneed, there were several medical reports. The onus is on you to prove it otherwise. Anyhow this is a very minor point. The point is that Russia meddled in Ukraine to get their guy and when the didnt they retaliated with gas cuts. They are doing the same with other eastern european countries. Russia still acts as a empire.

2. There are CIA agent "journalists" working to subvert Russia. Russia has every right to crack down on treasonous propagandists and "democracy" advocates whose idea of democracy is to overthrow the government by propaganda and install a western puppet in Putin's place.

That must be the single most fascist and infamous paragraph that ronpaulforums has ever witnessed. "Subversive activists" "agents" that is what all authoritarian governments say about the press they quash.If you sir don't believe in press freedom and are ok with the killings of the press you are a fascist. For all those of you who wonder Russia ranks 122 (with nearly the same score as Iran) in press freedom.

3. Eastern leaders seek to become part of the US/EU orbit not because they fear Russia....but because they are bought and paid for whores of "the West"....The idea that Poland and Czech need "missile defense" against Iran is ludicrous! It is a direct provacation of Russia.....

Funny that you say that ....because eastern Europeans after cutting ties to their invaders have been enjoying an inmaginable degree of economical ,individual, and political freedom. They are quickly catching up with the rest of the Europeans.
The "defense system" while being a stupid idea is an ANTI-BALISTIC system, defensive in nature.Russia is just pissed off because they liked the status quo of a defensless eastern europe.
And lets remember that these countries were invaded till not long ago by the ussr and still suffer intrusions from Russia

4. Your cliams of "genocide" against the Georgians by the Abkazians is pure fiction. How can a tiny enclave of 100,000 vilaggers carry out "genocide" against a Georgian state that is 100 times larger and armed to the teeth??? Where do u get this shit from?..Oh...thats right...Rupert Murdoch owns much of Zionist Austrailia's media!

Stop regurgitating Zionist propaganda and expand your scope of information.

In addition of being the mouth-piece of one of the most authoritarian regimes you display you are an ignorant. The Abhazians commited a genocide in 1993. Look it up.

No economic, civil, individual and political liberties. Extermination of chechens. Pure authoritarianism. A KGB killer as a strongman. Meddling in the affairs of eastern european countries. These are the hallmarks of modern Russia. A nightmare for any freedom loving person in the world. Supporting those policies are the same or worse than being a neo-con.

 

[Jahua]

down-under, Yushenko is definitely a puppet. There is no doubt on that. Do you remember how he became a president of Ukraine?
By the way, Ron Paul already said enough about it. Check his article:
http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=4135

 

[Jahua]

No economic, civil, individual and political liberties. Extermination of chechens. Pure authoritarianism. A KGB killer as a strongman. Meddling in the affairs of eastern european countries. These are the hallmarks of modern Russia. A nightmare for any freedom loving person in the world. Supporting those policies are the same or worse than being a neo-con.

Wow. I'm not too patriotic but you scare me
Some issues you mentioned are debatable (basically war in Chechnya). But rest of them are complete nonesense.
It's not THAT bad to live in Russia. I mean really, it's awesome here in almost every sense.

 

[ChickenHawk]

It's a mistake to believe that there is the NWO and you are either for it or against it. There are a number of NWOs and there is a battle between them. The "Neo-cons" have their version* and Putin and his thugs have their version. If either one of them win we are screwed. We just need to keep fighting for the Old World Order (OWO?) and against the NWO no matter what form it takes. To support a NWO that is against some other NWO only makes you a "useful idiot". Trying to oversimplify this is a huge mistake.


*Actually, there is even a battle among "Neo-cons" over what form their NWO would take.

 

[fatjohn]

His Presidential Term is already up, do you mean when he is done being Prime Minister or done being Overlord in general?

says a guy who lives in a country almost ruled by two families for 24 years.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

Awesome.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't trust Russia just because i fought communists and been threw some bad experience with my family many many years ago, when the wall came down much of the old mentality was still there. But i have to admit Putin has done some good work for his people and most of Russia likes him except the ones hungry for communist power.

Max, meeds or not made some good points and i have to agree with him on a few things

Though I, like you, strongly disagree with Soviet Socialism, there is a problem with the strong emphasis that neocons place on it. It is thrown about in the media as an excuse to be hostile and provocative towards The Kremlin. i.e. notice how some neocons place heavy emphasis on "EX-KGB-SUPER-EVIL-GUY Putin". They do this deliberately to make him into a mega-bad guy-a "pretext" for armed conflict.

I do appreciate you and others on the board for using critical thought-which is woefully missing in public discourse nowadays.