U.S. using food crisis to boost (GMO) bio-engineered crops

[amy31416]

Great advice, major flaw. There's no need to label GMO food. Most GMO food we eat is not labeled as such. How then can we choose not to eat it?

I belong to a Whole Foods Co-op (not Whole Foods Market, that's different) that does not allow any GM foods at all, if they can figure it out, I'm sure we can too.

I'll ask next time I go.

 

[asgardshill]

I belong to a Whole Foods Co-op (not Whole Foods Market, that's different) that does not allow any GM foods at all, if they can figure it out, I'm sure we can too.

I'll ask next time I go.

I'm curious about that myself, and look forward to a report. Does the co-op depend solely on the wholesaler's word that a veggie is not GM, is there some sort of field test for GMage; how does it work?

 

[amy31416]

I'm curious about that myself, and look forward to a report. Does the co-op depend solely on the wholesaler's word that a veggie is not GM, is there some sort of field test for GMage; how does it work?

My notion is that they depend on the wholesaler's word, but I'll ask. It's one of those places where I'm actually a shareholder and they have meetings and stuff, maybe I'll actually go to one of the meetings and see if they can clarify.

 

[asgardshill]

My notion is that they depend on the wholesaler's word, but I'll ask. It's one of those places where I'm actually a shareholder and they have meetings and stuff, maybe I'll actually go to one of the meetings and see if they can clarify.

Thanks. I'll keep checking because I'd really like to know.

I know its probably just my mid-morning pessimism coming out to play, but it seems to me that a wholesaler could make a lot more long green by swearing up and down that a particular veggie was non-GM when it was actually conceived in some Monsanto lab basement in New Jersey. (Think Little Shop Of Horrors without Rick Moranis and a plant that can't actually sing very well )

 

[amy31416]

Thanks. I'll keep checking because I'd really like to know.

I know its probably just my mid-morning pessimism coming out to play, but it seems to me that a wholesaler could make a lot more long green by swearing up and down that a particular veggie was non-GM when it was actually conceived in some Monsanto lab basement in New Jersey. (Think Little Shop Of Horrors without Rick Moranis and a plant that can't actually sing very well )

Feed me Seymour! Feed me all....... night........ long!!!

Well, when I go out for errands I'll stop by and pick up their calendar and see when the next meeting is and give ya an update on when I might get some info if I can't get it today.

 

[LittleLightShining]

Great advice, major flaw. There's no need to label GMO food. Most GMO food we eat is not labeled as such. How then can we choose not to eat it?

When I hear about humans tampering this much with nature it irks me. Torchbearer, I don't think you understand. Yes we've been "altering" our seeds for better crops BUT we did this through collecting the stronger seeds, cross-pollinating different varieties, and discarding the weaklings. This is evolution with human intervention at it's best. It IS NOT the same as "genetically modified" which forces seeds to take on unnatural characteristics foreign to it's own genetic family.

We place the cauliflower mosaic virus into the gene to expand the effect of the "roundup resistant" gene. Do you even know what CMV does? It can latch on to bacteria or radical cells and cause it to rapidly spread. Luckily most people have enough antibodies to keep it down.

GMO labeled as all this X-resistant is a farce. Have you even considered the farmers in India who are forced to suicide after their crops have failed? Dozens of cases. They thought GMO would be their golden ticket, but all their crops failed. They couldn't pay the banks. They were forced to sell their farms or die (whilst their families were left with the responsibility).

Then there's the terminator protocol they've put into the seed. I don't know about you, but, I don't want my children growing up in a world where we learn where our seed comes from........ multinational corporations. The concept of a seed that doesn't produce after 1 year is scary. The potential consequences are great. Since this gene is manipulated to be a dominant gene, I am afraid that it will spread to other plants.

Then we have the farmers being sued over patents of genetics.


There are so many wrongs about GMO and yet they remain unlabeled.

EXACTLY

 

[Ninja Homer]

Some stuff I posted in another thread

Like most issues, GMO shouldn't be looked at in a black or white, good or bad sense. Obviously, it has done many good things, saving many people from dieing from starvation. On the flip side, in areas where people have plenty of food, it has caused many health problems.

I don't have any problem at all with selective breeding. For instance, wheat was created about 5,000 years ago via selective breeding. The things that wheat has done for the world shouldn't need any explaining. The only problem with selective breeding is that it can take thousands of years for the human body to adapt to consuming a new food. In the case of wheat, about 1% of the population has coeliac disease, which is basically an allergic reaction to a particular protein found in wheat. Who knows how long it will be before 100% of the population can handle wheat.

With GMO foods, they alter the DNA of a crop, and they can come up with a lot of new breeds very quickly compared to selective breeding. They can test them all and if they find one with properties that they like, they can start running additional testing on it such as safety or environmental impact. Through gene splicing, they may develop a new crop that can grow in an area where it couldn't grow before. It may save a lot of people from starvation, and that is truly awesome. However, I don't feel that they are tested long enough on humans to know the long term health effects.

Food serves a higher purpose than just filling your stomach. The body breaks it down and uses the vitamins, minerals, and proteins to keep the body going. If a crop is developed that will grow in an area that is deficient in minerals, than that crop just isn't going to have the proper amount of minerals to sustain the human body. People eating those crops will have to get those minerals by other means.

Personally, I feel that if you have the option of eating organic foods that are full of natural vitamins and minerals, or eating GMO crops that may be lacking and require supplementation, you're always going to be better off eating organic. It's the way the human body has always received vitamins, minerals, and proteins, the body knows what to do with it that way because it always comes in the perfect proportions, and there aren't a lot of worries about allergies to new GMO foods or pesticides, herbicides, or other toxins.

Where I see the biggest problems with GMO crops is corporations like Monsanto. Their goal is not to solve the starvation problems of the world, but to wipe out all their competition and control the world's food supply. They create crops that can't reproduce (I'm sure there's a Bible verse that specifically addresses that), and can't grow except by using their own fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides. Certainly, all GMO developers are not bad, but those that are can be very harmful.

Monsanto is evil. They should have been sued out of existence long ago. They are the creators of Agent Orange, the particularly nasty herbicide that was used in Vietnam, which has caused cancer in thousands and thousands of veterans. The treatment of these cancer cases is paid for by taxes. I don't have a problem with tax dollars paying for the treatment of veterans, but since Monsanto still exists, they should be the ones paying for it.

Monsanto also brought us aspartame. If you don't know anything about aspartame poisoning, research it. Aspartame is actually a GMO. It failed FDA testing until Donald Rumsfeld was hired as CEO of G.D. Searle, and used his political pull in Washington to get it approved by the FDA in 1981. The simple fact that Rumsfeld was involved in getting aspartame its FDA approval should be enough to get most Ron Paul supporters to kick their diet soda addiction.

One of the countries having the most problems with GMO crops is India. Many Indian farmers bought GMO seed from Monsanto. Then they had to buy pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers from Monsanto because they are all kind of genetically engineered as a set to work together. If they used other products, their crops would die. They also have to re-purchase Monsanto seed every year. Monsanto doesn't allow re-seeding because they hold the patent on that seed, and usually any attempt to re-seed fails anyway because most of them won't reproduce. As a result, many Indian farmers have become deep in debt, and over 150,000 of them have committed suicide since 1993 because that's the only way they see to get their family out of debt.

The problem with eating GMO foods is that your body doesn't know how to handle them. Your body may handle some types of GMO fine, while having really bad reactions to others. Your body will treat some types of GMO as toxins, and either expel them as quickly as possible, give you an allergic reaction to them, or store them in fat cells away from your vital organs. GMO foods aren't properly tested on humans. If you decide to consume them, you are the guinea pig.

 

[amy31416]

Hey Asgardshill and anyone else who was interested--I talked to the manager at the co-op today and you were right about the co-op vegetables/fruits. They take the word of the vendor and because there's no requirements to label anything, that's pretty much the best they can do. They won't accept produce from farmers known to use GM seeds.

She did say that whenever they can, they get produce locally and have actually been to the farms, etc. So, for those of you interested in eating only non-GM foods, yer gonna have to grow it yourself or verify everything yourself right there on the farm.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

YOu do realize we've been genetically altering plants for 100s of years to produce better varieties.
The only difference is now we are more precise.
I grew up on the farm. All grain seeds were enhanced in some way or another.

Just a couple things about them thats bad. This is not just breeding, they say that but its not true. I know about breeding plants its cool these plants are evil. First off there genes the ones they mess with are always on. So if the plant gets loose it overpowers anything local, and its unknown what can happen, just depends on what it crosses with. Also They don't produce seeds, so farmers have to buy them year after year, which is bad for farmers. I also hear that they are worse for the soil.. Now not all plants are. not all gmo crops are bad, but just like anything. Some people are taking advantage, and making dangerous plants for profits. They make the plants live once, and die no seeds so you have to buy more seeds, its unfair and costs farmers more.

 

[RSLudlum]

Just a couple things about them thats bad. This is not just breeding, they say that but its not true. I know about breeding plants its cool these plants are evil. First off there genes the ones they mess with are always on. So if the plant gets loose it overpowers anything local, and its unknown what can happen, just depends on what it crosses with. Also They don't produce seeds, so farmers have to buy them year after year, which is bad for farmers. I also hear that they are worse for the soil.. Now not all plants are. not all gmo crops are bad, but just like anything. Some people are taking advantage, and making dangerous plants for profits. They make the plants live once, and die no seeds so you have to buy more seeds, its unfair and costs farmers more.

The plants grown from the 'terminator seeds' don't produce seeds, but the pollen is still viable, right? So, what happens if the gmo'd pollen fertilizes a 'natural' plant? Does that fertilized plant produce (viable) seeds or not? If not, then the problem of the gmo'd plants taking over is pretty much solved right? I can see some problems arising if the 'natural' plant ferilized by gmo'd pollen actually does produce viable seeds.

 

[amy31416]

The plants grown from the 'terminator seeds' don't produce seeds, but the pollen is still viable, right? So, what happens if the gmo'd pollen fertilizes a 'natural' plant? Does that fertilized plant produce (viable) seeds or not? If not, then the problem of the gmo'd plants taking over is pretty much solved right? I can see some problems arising if the 'natural' plant ferilized by gmo'd pollen actually does produce viable seeds.

God damn it, you guys are going to make me dust of the ole botany textbook. Not tonight though--tomorrow I'll look it over.

 

[RSLudlum]

God damn it, you guys are going to make me dust of the ole botany textbook. Not tonight though--tomorrow I'll look it over.

Watch out Mendel, here comes Amy!!

 

[amy31416]

Watch out Mendel, here comes Amy!!

Yes, well, I'll have to dust off my monk costume now. It turns out I can't really eke out the answer from what's in my botany book--there's zero about GM in there (too old, argh), I need to update the library.

Are there any GM/terminator peas? That's what Mendel used for fast, relatively simple results.

 

[Dr.3D]

Hold on a minute.... from what I understand, plants with the terminator gene do produce seeds.
The seeds just not able to be planted and sprout the next season.

This is the entire reason they have plants with the terminator gene. They want the plant to produce seeds for people to eat. They just don't want people to be able to plant those seeds and get another crop from them the next year. They feel this helps them to keep selling seeds to the farmers instead of the farmers bypassing the company selling the seeds.

I do hear reports from farmers who live in Mexico saying they are getting less and less viable seeds from their non terminator crops. Those farmers claim it must be from the cross pollination with the terminator crops north of the border.

I can only question if this is possible or not as I don't really know if it can happen that way.

Can it really be the gene can be passed to non terminator crops and then slowly the crops through years of inbreeding fail to produce viable seeds and end the ability of plants to reproduce viable seed as they have throughout history?

 

[amy31416]

Hold on a minute.... from what I understand, plants with the terminator gene do produce seeds.
The seeds just not able to be planted and sprout the next season.

This is the entire reason they have plants with the terminator gene. They want the plant to produce seeds for people to eat. They just don't want people to be able to plant those seeds and get another crop from them the next year. They feel this helps them to keep selling seeds to the farmers instead of the farmers bypassing the company selling the seeds.

I do hear reports from farmers who live in Mexico saying they are getting less and less viable seeds from their non terminator crops. Those farmers claim it must be from the cross pollination with the terminator crops north of the border.

I can only question if this is possible or not as I don't really know if it can happen that way.

Can it really be the gene can be passed to non terminator crops and then slowly the crops through years of inbreeding fail to produce viable seeds and end the ability of plants to reproduce viable seed as they have throughout history?

That's what we're trying to figure out here. What we know:

1. Terminator seeds produce a plant that has sterile seeds.
2. Regular seeds produce a plant that has fertile seeds.
3. Would cross pollination between the two plants cause the normal plant to produce entirely or partially sterile seed?

Assuming that the "terminator" quality is a dominant trait, then it seems likely that cross pollination could adversely affect the viability of seeds produced by the normal plant and introduce this gene into subsequent generations of the plant, thus reducing crop yields over time for the farmer using "normal" plants.

I'm no botanist, but I took a botany course quite a while ago and I tinker in it a bit, so I'm not sure what exactly the outcome would be and thought it'd be interesting to do a little experiment ala Mendel. Peas would be possible, but I can't plant corn here in the city, that'd just be silly.

 

[Agent CSL]

I believe the terminator trait is dominant, but I don't know for sure. I've only watched a couple documentaries. I also was never really that good in biology. Ecology, though, I got straight A's.

 

[sidster]

some GMO seed companies have been charged with implementing non-reproductive/infertile 'programming' into some of it's seed stock, ie if you use some GM'd seed to grow corn, the actual corn seed you're crop produces will be unable to produce another generation. The corn is still edible, but if you are the farmer with the GM'd seeds then you will have to buy more corn seed for next seed instead of keeping some of your crop for seeding.
...
Some GM seed companies have used 'patent rights' against small, non-GM using farmers by claiming these farmers have violated the companies' claim to the genetic code showing up in the farmers' crops, of which obtained the 'genetically modified' code due to wind pollination into the non-GM farmers' fields.

Yep... here is another view point on this and the legal hold Monsanto
like companies have on farmers: Monsanto: The Food Mafia.

If you're scared of GM food, if you don't like it, if you think that it's part of an evil plot to take over your mind, body and soul--then for crying out loud, don't eat it.

It is a good thing in areas where people are starving and lacking in vital nutrients, areas that generally can't grow crops. Golden rice is a GM food that was modified to have a higher content of vitamin A. Yeah, that sucks ass. More vitamin A for poor starving people--evil sons of bitches!

The only thing I don't like is terminator seeds, anyone who produces them or encourages them ain't getting my support.

Wow.. that's a pretty naive. From the Monsanto link above:

Monsanto has the F.D.A’s support and the F.D.A will come after you (another reason why F.D.A. should be abolished). Your milk is probably already tainted with their hormones but pretty soon you will not be able to buy even milk that claims it is free from growth hormones if Monsanto has its way.

Monsanto succeeded in getting Pennsylvania, to begin February 1, 2008, to ban labels claiming their milk products are free from hormones on grounds that it implies the competitor’s milk is somehow unhealthy. But people started writing, emailing, calling the Agriculture secretary of Pennsylvania and he had to reverse the decision.

 

[Dr.3D]

I found an interesting article written in 2002 here: http://www.law.mq.edu.au/html/MqLJ/vol2pdf/volume2-1.pdf

If you look at pages 12 and 13 you will find a bit of information about the terminator problem.

It is becoming a decision of if there is a right to save seed. Some claim farmers have no right to be able to save seed and should have to buy all of the seed they need.

I can see this all getting out of hand in a hurry.

 

[amy31416]

Wow.. that's a pretty naive. From the Monsanto link above:

For the record. I hate Monsanto and will not buy anything that they have a hand in.

I'm not naive, I'm sympathetic to those starving and lacking nutrients in other countries where they can't typically grow crops. I am 100% for golden rice, a GM food that was developed to synthesize vitamin A.

http://www.goldenrice.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice

I know there's problems with it getting into the right hands, but that's not the fault of the scientists who developed it. If I were starving and had to choose between the two, guess which one I'd pick.

Demonizing things across the board is naive.

 

[sidster]

Demonizing things across the board is naive.

My comment about naiveness was at your suggestion to not buy
GM products if you don't want to. My point was, and I think someone
else commented (Agent CSL I think) on this as well as you who confirmed,
that it isn't so easy for consumer to figure out what products are for
certain 100% organic.

Also the quote I posted from the blog link shows how these scumpanies
get their lawyers to ban products being marked as "Organic" (please read
that blog post if you haven't yet ... or at least the bit I quoted)