U.S. debt jumps a record $328 billion — tops $17 trillion for first time

[brushfire]

We're good for it

 

[Zippyjuan]

That was five months worth of debt being added in one month- bills postponed to keep the debt from rising. Now they are caught up again. Total debt for the year is expected to be about $650 billion.

The giant jump comes because the government was replenishing its stock of “extraordinary measures” — the federal funds it borrowed from over the last five months as it tried to avoid bumping into the debt ceiling.

Under the law, that replenishing happens as soon as there is new debt space.

In this case, the Treasury Department borrowed $400 billion from other funds beginning in May, awaiting a final deal from Congress and Mr. Obama.

 

[juleswin]

Every 2 term president(Clinton was helped by the internet bubble) since Reagan have been doubling the national debt. I wonder if Obama can do better and triple it

 

[Zippyjuan]

Keep in mind that Congress, not presidents, write budgets. A deficit may occur while a person is president but he was not responsible for spending/ revenues other than signing or vetoing what budgets Congress creates. Even having Rand or Ron Paul as president would have little power over that.

It also matters when you start the count. The president takes office in January but until October (which is when the new fiscal year starts) we are operating on a budget passed under the previous president. When Obama took office in January 2009, the US debt was $10.7 trillion. http://nationaldebtbusters.blogspot.com/2009/01/newest-national-debt-statistics-posted.html To double that, it must hit $21.4 trillion by January 2017 which would require us to run annual deficits of more than $1 trilion a year- the estimated deficit for FY 2013 is about $750 billion and next year is projected to be even lower. A triple would be $32.1 trillion and would need to have a deficit of about $4 trillion a year which would require more than doubling the current budget.

If we start at the October 2009 figure (the start of the first budget period under Obama), our base is $11.4 trillion so doubling would be at 22.8 trillion- $5 trilion higher than now and that would require a $1.3 trillion deficit every year. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html

 

[ronpaulfollower999]

Congress passes the budget, but the President has the bully pulpit and the power to veto. If I'm not mistaken, I think Obama requested an even bigger stimulus package than what Congress actually passed...so it's not like he wants to fiscally responsible.

 

[Zippyjuan]

The fact he did not get it shows that his power on budgets is very limited.

 

[Jordan]

Not if the Federal Reserve bought them all

Awesome. Basically zero interest.

 

[oyarde]

Awesome. Basically zero interest.

Pretty soon they will be paying someone to take them....

 

[Zippyjuan]

So , pushing 22 Trillion begining 2016 ? or more ?

Since we just hit 17 trillion, going to $22 trillion means $5 trillion more. To get there by 2016 (three years) you need an average annual deficit of $1.7 trillion. Actually since 2013 is mostly over you need closer to $2 trillion a year deficits. Currently we are running about $600 billion a year. If that is maintained, we can get to $22 trillion by the end of 2021 (8.3 years). $20 trillion would be reached in five.

 

[oyarde]

Since we just hit 17 trillion, going to $22 trillion means $5 trillion more. To get there by 2016 (three years) you need an average annual deficit of $1.7 trillion. Actually since 2013 is mostly over you need closer to $2 trillion a year deficits. Currently we are running about $600 billion a year. If that is maintained, we can get to $22 trillion by the end of 2021 (8.3 years). $20 trillion would be reached in five.

What was the avg for previous 4 , around 1.3 Trillion ?

 

[Zippyjuan]

They have been declining in the time Obama has been president.
FY 2006: $248 billion
FY 2007: $161 billion
FY 2008: $458 billion
FY 2009- (passed under Bush and the highest annual deficit ever in this country): $1.4 trillion
FY 2010: $1.3 trillion
FY 2011: $1.3 trillion
FY 2012: $1.087 trillion
FY 2013: $973 trillion
FY 2014 (estimated): $744 billion
FY 2015 (estimated): $577 billion

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/federalbudgetprocess/a/Budget-Deficit-History.htm

 

[fatjohn]

They have been declining in the time Obama has been president.
FY 2006: $248 billion
FY 2007: $161 billion
FY 2008: $458 billion
FY 2009- (passed under Bush and the highest annual deficit ever in this country): $1.4 trillion
FY 2010: $1.3 trillion
FY 2011: $1.3 trillion
FY 2012: $1.087 trillion
FY 2013: $973 trillion
FY 2014 (estimated): $744 billion
FY 2015 (estimated): $577 billion

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/federalbudgetprocess/a/Budget-Deficit-History.htm

973 trillion? you call that a decline?
Talk about skyrocketing.

But really where did you find the figure for 973 Billion?

 

[ladyjade3]

More about where the money came from and why the debt jumped so much in one day:
http://nypost.com/2013/10/16/the-us-debt-dollars-that-no-ones-talking-about/

and here: http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/14/the-debt-ceiling-and-your-retirement-funds/

"The Government Securities Investment Fund (G Fund) is one of these other government accounts used to fund the government. The G Fund holds approximately 40 percent of all Thrift Savings Plan’s (TSP) balances. As most readers know, the TSP is similar to a 401(k) retirement fund for about 4.6 million current and former government employees and uniformed service members. To make up for the deficit spending by the government, the Treasury has “suspended reinvestment” or taken assets out of the G Fund to pay for other expenses.

So, for those readers who have their investments in the G fund, thank you for your patriotism in helping to fund deficit federal spending. No doubt, many of these investors are unaware that it has occurred."

I have one of those TSPs from my time in RP's office. I think its about time to move it outta there!

 

[Zippyjuan]

973 trillion? you call that a decline?
Talk about skyrocketing.

But really where did you find the figure for 973 Billion?

Oops.

 

[BarryDonegan]

We covered this one on the SilverUnderground/Silver Circle blog

US National Debt Blasts Past $17 Trillion
http://silverunderground.com/2013/10/us-national-debt-blasts-past-17-trillion/

 

[Madison320]

They have been declining in the time Obama has been president.
FY 2006: $248 billion
FY 2007: $161 billion
FY 2008: $458 billion
FY 2009- (passed under Bush and the highest annual deficit ever in this country): $1.4 trillion
FY 2010: $1.3 trillion
FY 2011: $1.3 trillion
FY 2012: $1.087 trillion
FY 2013: $973 trillion
FY 2014 (estimated): $744 billion
FY 2015 (estimated): $577 billion

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/federalbudgetprocess/a/Budget-Deficit-History.htm

1. I don't trust the deficit numbers. I think the net difference in total debt is more accurate. Net debt has still been going up by over a trillion a year.

2. Didn't the CBO just predict 600 billion for 2013 about 6 months ago?

3. Imagine what the deficits would be without a trillion dollars of QE? I think if they removed QE we could see a 2 trillion deficit.

 

[Zippyjuan]

1. I don't trust the deficit numbers. I think the net difference in total debt is more accurate. Net debt has still been going up by over a trillion a year.

2. Didn't the CBO just predict 600 billion for 2013 about 6 months ago?

3. Imagine what the deficits would be without a trillion dollars of QE? I think if they removed QE we could see a 2 trillion deficit.

1). Net debt is the sum of all deficits. It uses the same figure.

2) They projected $642 billion for the 2013 fiscal year (which just ended this month) back in May. http://www.cnbc.com/id/100736620

Final figures are not in but as of a month ago it was $750 billion (down from $1.2 trillion a year before) but they expected revenues to exceed expenditures in September which would mean a lower final number.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/321105-deficit-reaches-750-billion-for-2013-cbo

The federal budget deficit for 2013 reached $750 billion by the end of August, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimated Monday.

The total is a $400 billion drop from the comparable period last year, a significant cut in the government's spending to revenue imbalance. At this point in 2012, the deficit stood at $1.164 trillion.

CBO said that with one month left to go in the fiscal year, the full year deficit by the end of September is expected to come is at a slightly lower number. The month of September is expected to feature higher revenues compared to spending, generating a surplus.

Deficit reaches $750 billion for 2013: CBO-thirds of the reduction in the deficit this year is due to higher revenues, CBO said. Revenues were up $284 billion. The New Year's fiscal year deal allowed income and payroll tax rates to rise and the economic recovery is also generating higher receipts.

3) QE does not directly impact the deficit- unless it stimulated the economy and tax revenues rose as a result of that. Your statement implies that QE was a success- generating an additional $1 trillion a year for the government.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Debt Ceiling crisis averted! WOOT!

Yep, it's smooth sailing into a sunny horizon from here on out.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So , pushing 22 Trillion begining 2016 ? or more ?

It could be a hundred trillion and nobody would know the difference. At least, nobody's seemed to notice so far. It's all so superficial, like an alternate universe that we're getting news about for some reason. It just doesn't seem real.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

The fact he did not get it shows that his power on budgets is very limited.

Or perhaps it was just theatrics....