Trump: "We Will Ban Urban Camping Wherever Possible"

[Anti Federalist]

I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.

Unless you are a foreign invader.

Then you get put up in posh NYC hotels that neither one of us could afford.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.

I think once they get approved it is like a teachers tenure. It is there for good.
My guess is people that know the system get on the list before they need the accommodations.

 

[ClaytonB]

Complete bull$#@!. Anybody that needs help can get help in many ways, paid for by taxpayers. These people on the streets don't want to utilize those services because they don't want to stop using drugs.

"Camping" on the streets is a joke. There are encampments that are populated by the mentally ill and addicts. They are not "camping", they are trespassing. They are littering. Crime comes hand in hand with it. Theft mainly, but also assaults and even murder.

No, the problem is deeper than this. I have lived and worked in a men's shelter, and I learned a lot while I was there.

(a) Money/funding is never the problem. During Thanksgiving, the amount of turkeys donated to the men's shelter I was at is so voluminous, that the commercial walk-in freezer (like you would find in any grocery store) is stacked to the ceiling with birds and, some years, donations start having to be turned away because there are just too many turkeys. Obviously, they all eventually get eaten. That's just voluntary donations, not to mention regular charitable giving and other sources of institutional funding. There are plenty of resources.

(b) Many people who are homeless don't mind their lifestyle and probably would not change even if they had the option to. Many people prefer outdoor life and some people just prefer to live outside all the time. In itself, that's not an invalid choice, and one part of the problem is that, culturally, we categorize this as an invalid lifestyle choice. You can butcher kids' genitals if you want, that's a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, but choosing to live outside all the time, (read in Karen voice): "what's wrong with you, you ANIMAL?!?"

(c) The legal identity SNAFU creates a very real legal catch-22 for many people who are willing to work. To be considered a legal person (thus, free to work), you basically have to have a street address, and several other accoutrements of the modern, middle-class lifestyle. Because our penal system is corrupt, lazy and worthless, we use these kinds of basic tools as instruments of punishment but, in the process, we create a huge swathe of collateral damage in the form of people who are not guilty of any crime, or have served whatever time they were sentenced to serve, but are forced to pay the "un-person" penalty anyway, due to being caught in the catch-22 already mentioned. The irony of shouting, "get a job, you bum!" is that, in many cases, they logistically cannot get a job no matter how willing they are to work. There are agencies, such as homeless shelters, that can help with this, but the point is that it really isn't as simple as just walking over to the nearest hamburger joint and offering to clean toilets or do whatever work they have available. Shoving your head in the sand about this inherent contradiction in the system won't make it go away, either. All that will happen is you will have larger and larger drifts of homeless vagrants in the camps dotting your downtown districts. Boo-f-ing-hoo. Take the wake-up call and deal with reality and stop being whiny snowflakes and blaming all your problems on "the homeless who just don't want to work." I don't know what the solutions are, but I know that whining about the problem and shifting the blame is certainly not a solution.

(d) Many homeless are in a kind of circular legal trap and are quite literally "circling the drain" of society (usually leading to death/suicide). There was a mentally-ill man who was at the shelter there for a while. He could not be in an institution because he was too violent, so they expelled him. He would steal from the store because he was hungry or wanted something, so he would be jailed. He would be kept there for X amount of time, then he would be released back to the shelter, where they would file the paperwork to put him back in the institution. They would take him for a while, and then re-expel him due to violence, etc. And so the cycle went on. It was a Kafka-esque tragedy. Every single institution's hands are tied in respect to effectively dealing with the problem. And then their case is just turned into another statistic to go begging the public for "more funding".

(e) The homeless cannot be punished into doing what you want, at least, not unless you are prepared to go to the extent of sharia law and start cutting off hands, etc. And making homelessness difficult in one city during some anti-homeless campaign might seem to work, but all that really happens is like running through a large flock of birds... they alight, fly some distance away, then fly right back to where they were before. You can go crazy and run around chasing birds like a madman, but it won't solve your bird-flock problem, it will just wear you out.

(f) Measures introduced to prevent "abuse" of homeless assistance are largely a waste-of-time. The gossip channels among the homeless move at the speed-of-light, and free anything is instantly identified and broadcast throughout. If you put XYZ restriction on phones, but there is some kind of exception due to ABC condition, they just coach other on how to tick the ABC box with the administrator to lift the XYZ restriction. And the news on how to do that spreads effectively instantly, so the grand scheme you cooked up to overhaul whatever "abuse" of homeless resources was occurring will be literally mooted overnight.

There is no actual mystery as to why these problems exist and persist as they do. In the past, repeat violent offenders would just be given the death-penalty. That cuts out a significant chunk of the problem. There was acknowledged space in society for mountain-men ... it was not considered an abomination, just strange. Identity cards were not used to unperson people as a kind of extra-judicial punishment inflicted by tinpot administrators for daring to cross them, e.g. child-support jerking people's driver's licenses for unpaid child-support, which is pure insanity. This creates a huge chunk of the problem. Finally, the primary agents of charity were church and the family, which are the right agents of charitable work since they are able to administer assistance in a manner that effects change, since the assistance is given directly, face-to-face. It is not some kind of impersonal merry-go-round of ticking off the right checkboxes.

Finally, and most importantly, we need a spiritual revival in our public agencies and local governments -- homelessness is one of the ways that God "speaks" to those in power. When they flaunt his manifest law, and ignore the obvious principles of Nature (which also reveal God), they bring on themselves God's judgment, and the scourge of homelessness is one of the ways that manifests. Most of the homeless have deep spiritual hunger and desperately need God's salvation. Throwing more "resources" at them solves nothing. And chasing them off is as futile as running through a large flock of roosting birds. They just jump out of your way, and come right back.

 

[PAF]

^ ^ ^

Boy that was a lot of reading. But I somehow did it.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ClaytonB again."

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

Government should consider only allowing illegal immigrants, and people of color, and LGBTQLMNOP, people to camp at National Campgrounds.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.

Every state and local jurisdiction are different, so YMMV.

I knew a guy who was "homeless" with a wife and two kids. He essentially refused to work, but this is not unusual among the street people and the people on govt assistance. It is a form of mental illness. The social workers told them that the wife and kids could get an apartment, food, healthcare, all free, if they would jettison the father. Talk about incentives for fatherless children.

 

[vita3]

psyvpyoc bizmen alert

 

[PAF]

Every state and local jurisdiction are different, so YMMV.

I knew a guy who was "homeless" with a wife and two kids. He essentially refused to work, but this is not unusual among the street people and the people on govt assistance. It is a form of mental illness. The social workers told them that the wife and kids could get an apartment, food, healthcare, all free, if they would jettison the father. Talk about incentives for fatherless children.

The productive thing to do would be to first fight back against such proposed, tyrannical Federal policies stated in the OP, and then look for ways to address the problem(s) at the local level. Much in the same way that Ron Paul did not want to immediately shut off social security because too many people paid into it and reliant on it, but instead phase it out.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

No, the problem is deeper than this. I have lived and worked in a men's shelter, and I learned a lot while I was there.

(a) Money/funding is never the problem. During Thanksgiving, the amount of turkeys donated to the men's shelter I was at is so voluminous, that the commercial walk-in freezer (like you would find in any grocery store) is stacked to the ceiling with birds and, some years, donations start having to be turned away because there are just too many turkeys. Obviously, they all eventually get eaten. That's just voluntary donations, not to mention regular charitable giving and other sources of institutional funding. There are plenty of resources.

That is what I have seen too.

(b) Many people who are homeless don't mind their lifestyle and probably would not change even if they had the option to. Many people prefer outdoor life and some people just prefer to live outside all the time. In itself, that's not an invalid choice, and one part of the problem is that, culturally, we categorize this as an invalid lifestyle choice. You can butcher kids' genitals if you want, that's a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, but choosing to live outside all the time, (read in Karen voice): "what's wrong with you, you ANIMAL?!?"

If people are living outdoors somewhere beyond in the bushes next to freeway or your front door, people wouldn't notice, and wouldn't care.

They are not the visible ones, who are not just outdoors people, they are on alcohol/drugs and/or mentality ill. They want to continue the drug use, so they don't use shelters.

(c) The legal identity SNAFU creates a very real legal catch-22 for many people who are willing to work. To be considered a legal person (thus, free to work), you basically have to have a street address, and several other accoutrements of the modern, middle-class lifestyle. Because our penal system is corrupt, lazy and worthless, we use these kinds of basic tools as instruments of punishment but, in the process, we create a huge swathe of collateral damage in the form of people who are not guilty of any crime, or have served whatever time they were sentenced to serve, but are forced to pay the "un-person" penalty anyway, due to being caught in the catch-22 already mentioned. The irony of shouting, "get a job, you bum!" is that, in many cases, they logistically cannot get a job no matter how willing they are to work. There are agencies, such as homeless shelters, that can help with this, but the point is that it really isn't as simple as just walking over to the nearest hamburger joint and offering to clean toilets or do whatever work they have available. Shoving your head in the sand about this inherent contradiction in the system won't make it go away, either. All that will happen is you will have larger and larger drifts of homeless vagrants in the camps dotting your downtown districts. Boo-f-ing-hoo. Take the wake-up call and deal with reality and stop being whiny snowflakes and blaming all your problems on "the homeless who just don't want to work." I don't know what the solutions are, but I know that whining about the problem and shifting the blame is certainly not a solution.

That is problematic, for the people who actually want a job. But they are usually not the problem people.

(d) Many homeless are in a kind of circular legal trap and are quite literally "circling the drain" of society (usually leading to death/suicide). There was a mentally-ill man who was at the shelter there for a while. He could not be in an institution because he was too violent, so they expelled him. He would steal from the store because he was hungry or wanted something, so he would be jailed. He would be kept there for X amount of time, then he would be released back to the shelter, where they would file the paperwork to put him back in the institution. They would take him for a while, and then re-expel him due to violence, etc. And so the cycle went on. It was a Kafka-esque tragedy. Every single institution's hands are tied in respect to effectively dealing with the problem. And then their case is just turned into another statistic to go begging the public for "more funding".

The violet people belong in prison, away from herds of oblivious and helpless victims.

(e) The homeless cannot be punished into doing what you want, at least, not unless you are prepared to go to the extent of sharia law and start cutting off hands, etc. And making homelessness difficult in one city during some anti-homeless campaign might seem to work, but all that really happens is like running through a large flock of birds... they alight, fly some distance away, then fly right back to where they were before. You can go crazy and run around chasing birds like a madman, but it won't solve your bird-flock problem, it will just wear you out.

Many locales have solved their problem by sending them to other places, for example the west coast cities, where Marxism and bleeding heart liberalism make it easy for them.

(f) Measures introduced to prevent "abuse" of homeless assistance are largely a waste-of-time. The gossip channels among the homeless move at the speed-of-light, and free anything is instantly identified and broadcast throughout. If you put XYZ restriction on phones, but there is some kind of exception due to ABC condition, they just coach other on how to tick the ABC box with the administrator to lift the XYZ restriction. And the news on how to do that spreads effectively instantly, so the grand scheme you cooked up to overhaul whatever "abuse" of homeless resources was occurring will be literally mooted overnight.

Yep. The grapevine. That's why a city like Portland or SF ends up with so many bums.

There is no actual mystery as to why these problems exist and persist as they do. In the past, repeat violent offenders would just be given the death-penalty. That cuts out a significant chunk of the problem. There was acknowledged space in society for mountain-men ... it was not considered an abomination, just strange. Identity cards were not used to unperson people as a kind of extra-judicial punishment inflicted by tinpot administrators for daring to cross them, e.g. child-support jerking people's driver's licenses for unpaid child-support, which is pure insanity. This creates a huge chunk of the problem. Finally, the primary agents of charity were church and the family, which are the right agents of charitable work since they are able to administer assistance in a manner that effects change, since the assistance is given directly, face-to-face. It is not some kind of impersonal merry-go-round of ticking off the right checkboxes.

Yep. Especially family. There are a ton of people who would otherwise be "homeless" because of mental disorders, but who live with their families, or at a minimum their family takes care of them. It is the violent ones who often end up with no one taking care of them, even charities.