Trump wants to end Daylight Savings Time

Should Daylight Savings Time (DST) be ended?


  • Total voters
    12
My dog even knows it's unnatural.
She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

No, she gets up at a different time every day.. if you didn't change the clocks, she would be getting up at like 5:45am in the summer and 8:15am in the winter.. so like I said in one of my previous posts, you could just have the clock change EVERY DAY so the sun comes up at the same time... then your dog gets up around 7am every day, all year.. but that means time changes EVERY DAY.

Having a time change twice a year is the best, because it keeps the sun coming up at around the same time all year, without too many time changes.
 
I hope that I am highlighting the REAL argument in this thread... if we get rid of time changes, people are going to fight in the streets over standard time all year or DST all year... right now, most people are all relatively happy the way things are, they just think they aren't.
 
No, she gets up at a different time every day.. if you didn't change the clocks, she would be getting up at like 5:45am in the summer and 8:15am in the winter.. so like I said in one of my previous posts, you could just have the clock change EVERY DAY so the sun comes up at the same time... then your dog gets up around 7am every day, all year.. but that means time changes EVERY DAY.

Having a time change twice a year is the best, because it keeps the sun coming up at around the same time all year, without too many time changes.
How the hell would you know what she does?
You don't live here and she sleeps right next to me.

You need to get over thinking the position of the sun has anything to do with the time.
 
How the hell would you know what she does?

You don't live here and she sleeps right next to me.

You literally told me she did.. you said:

She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

So when the time changes, she gets up around 20 minutes after sunrise.. or 40 minutes, or whatever.. same every day, compared to the sun.. not the clock... unless you have an alarm and they get up with the alarm, or when you get up, but clearly they don't based on your statements.

You need to get over thinking the position of the sun has anything to do with the time.

No, YOU need to get over thinking the position of the sun has anything to do with the time. That's the whole point.. The sun is the sun, "time" is a mathematical indication based on gravitational force, if you think about it.. objects fall at the same rate, 7.8 M/s or whatever..

The point is people have daily schedules, they have to go to work. Going to work at 8am every day, you don't want it to still be dark at 8:30am, it's way too hard for people to get to work. That's why we have standard time.. Then the summer, when the sun comes up earlier, we change the clock so that we can get some more light at the end of the day, and the sun still comes up around the same time in the morning for people to go to work.

It's an objective fact I'm the only on in this thread who is right.
 
Two perfect examples of people not "thinking things through"

I really think this is a vocal minority who want it, most people are just like whatever, then if we switch.. you are going to have a lot of pissed off people once they realize how much this really impacts them.

Oh, you're funny. And you're being a condescending prick.

You do realize that DST is a new invention in terms of humanity, correct? Humans went tens of thousands of years (that we know of) not observing such nonsense. It was started in the U.S. during wartime and was used for manufacturing purposes.

Think it through, asshole.
 
Dammit!!

You almost had it until that last sentence!!!

Look at the post before yours.. so many people claim they would rather have the sun at the end of the day to do stuff.. but you're right, if it was still dark at 8am... 8:30am in the dead of winter, maybe later some places... that is ridiculous, people would be upset. Maybe some people would be ok with it..

But my point is, you piss off a LOT of people by either going standard time all year, and you piss a LOT of people off by going DST all year.. keep it the way it is, it's best for everyone all around.

Everyone already hates DST.
For a compromise we can shift half an hour and then leave it that way.
The changes must end.
 
I like the idea of the entire world on the same time.
Let's face it now is now regardless of where a person happens to be.

I think I am just going to do my own time. Fuch them. Nobody can tell me what the time it is. People can't even determine what a woman is.
 
Everyone already hates DST.
For a compromise we can shift half an hour and then leave it that way.
The changes must end.

No, most people like DST, they hate changing their clocks and don't realize how dark it would be in winter if they didn't change to standard time.

No timezone is off by 30 minutes.. makes it hard to convert to other timezones..
 
Whatever times people want to get up and schedule their daily activities, and whatever times businesses want to be in operation, are none of the government's concern.

This is how it always is when we get acclimated to something being run by the government. People can't imagine how it would work if free people were left to organize themselves without a central manager. But just because they can't imagine it doesn't mean there isn't some way it would work outside their imagination. It will always work better without the central manager.
 
Dammit!!

You almost had it until that last sentence!!!

Look at the post before yours.. so many people claim they would rather have the sun at the end of the day to do stuff.. but you're right, if it was still dark at 8am... 8:30am in the dead of winter, maybe later some places... that is ridiculous, people would be upset. Maybe some people would be ok with it..

But my point is, you piss off a LOT of people by either going standard time all year, and you piss a LOT of people off by going DST all year.. keep it the way it is, it's best for everyone all around.

My point is that you can either adjust the clock twice a year or adjust the schedules twice a year. I can see pros and cons to both of them. I'm leaning towards the current system of changing the clock as better. It would be interesting to see what places do that stay on standard all year. Do they adjust their schedules?

My objection is to the idea of switching to DST permanently because it breaks the idea of 24 hour time zones. Plus people seem to think it's magically creating more hours in the day and that annoys me.
 
If we returned to an agrarian economy everyone would be fine with getting rid of Daylight Savings time.
 
My dog even knows it's unnatural.
She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

This is the missing variable that no one here has mentioned.

If you leave the clock unchanged people will ADJUST THEIR SCHEDULES to the changes in daylight. Just like your dog.

Everyone here assumes that schedules are a constant. Ask yourself what would happen if we moved the clocks ahead by 5 hours for example. Do you really think people would just get up in the middle of the night to start their day?
 
This is the missing variable that no one here has mentioned.

If you leave the clock unchanged people will ADJUST THEIR SCHEDULES to the changes in daylight. Just like your dog.

Everyone here assumes that schedules are a constant. Ask yourself what would happen if we moved the clocks ahead by 5 hours for example. Do you really think people would just get up in the middle of the night to start their day?
While I agree with this. I think the issue is with logistics of business hours of opening and closing and printed signage and such.
 
It would be interesting to see what places do that stay on standard all year. Do they adjust their schedules?

Prior to 2006 most of Indiana did that. And in general businesses kept their same nominal schedules throughout the year. There may have been rare exceptions, but I never heard of any. The points that dannno is making were not things that any real people living their lives in a world without time changes ever actually cared about. The main argument for going off of that was just to conform to what the other states around us were doing. But as far as I have been able to tell, most Hoosiers preferred not changing their clocks and continue to believe that this move increased their misery.
 
While I agree with this. I think the issue is with logistics of business hours of opening and closing and printed signage and such.

I agree. I lean towards keeping it the way it is and just switching between standard and DST. But I can see the argument for standard all year round.

As I've said before I just have a problem with DST all year round. That's just stupid. People will adjust their schedules and you'll end up with the same hours after work as standard time but you'll break the 24 hour global time zone logic.
 
As I've said before I just have a problem with DST all year round. That's just stupid. People will adjust their schedules and you'll end up with the same hours after work as standard time but you'll break the 24 hour global time zone logic.

I don't understand this.

If it is sensible - or at least tolerable - to "break the 24-hour global time zone logic" for half the year, then why is it not tolerable to do it for the whole year?

I'm not seeing how the net trade-offs are supposed to favor the former, but disfavor the latter (especially given the concession with respect to the latter that "people will adjust their schedules and you'll end up with the same hours after work as standard time").. At least "all year round" DST would be consistent, and wouldn't involve arbitrary (and changeable) "time-change" days.

FTR: I don't really care - never DST ... sometimes DST ... always DST ... whatever ...

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I don't understand this.

If it is sensible - or at least tolerable - to "break the 24-hour global time zone logic" for half the year, then why is it not tolerable to do it for the whole year?

I'm not seeing how the net trade-offs are supposed to favor the former, but disfavor the latter (especially given the concession with respect to the latter that "people will adjust their schedules and you'll end up with the same hours after work as standard time").. At least "all year round" DST would be consistent, and wouldn't involve arbitrary (and changeable) "time-change" days.

FTR: I don't really care - never DST ... sometimes DST ... always DST ... whatever ...



Because if you're doing it for half the year you're still "anchored" to standard time.
 
[bold emphasis added]​
Follow the money... ;)

When you were a kid, you might have been told the spring and autumn rituals of adjusting your clock had something to do with farming. Yeah, that's not true. In fact, daylight saving time has less to do with tending to crops and more to do with practicing three-footers. Seriously.

As you probably know, daylight saving time, which in most of the country commenced on March 13, does not involve the magical creation of an extra hour of daylight, but instead shifts an hour of daylight from the early morning hours to the evening. The rationale is that hour of daylight is better utilized at the end of the work day than at the beginning. This is why certain entities, like groups representing gas stations and convenience stores, have lobbied for daylight saving time to start earlier in the year. The more daylight, the more people are willing to venture outside their homes, the more they need to refuel their cars.

This is where golf comes into play.

According to Michael Downing, a professor at Tufts University and the author of "Spring Forward: The Annual Madness Of Daylight Saving Time," the golf industry once estimated the game would increase revenue by $400 million if daylight saving began a month earlier. Those figures were part of a 1986 lobbying effort asking Congress to extend daylight saving from six to seven months, which ended up becoming the norm.

"The reason it's good for golf is because it creates more daylight when people are likely to play," said Steve Mona, CEO of the World Golf Foundation. "It could be going out to play nine holes or even just spending 30 minutes on the putting green. We believe any activity is good whether it leads to increased revenue or increased engagement in the game."

Mona says the golf industry no longer needs to actively lobby on behalf of daylight saving, and instead just monitors the occasional debate from afar. And to be clear, the concept is not universally embraced.

Studies have suggested that energy usage, one of the original factors behind daylight saving, does not decrease much because of daylight saving. Yes, people use their lights less in the evening hours, but it also means they might increase air conditioner use. And there are even health concerns from the inevitable sleep deprivation that accompanies moving clocks ahead an hour: the New England Journal of Medicine published a report in 2008 that said heart attack risk rose in Sweden following the spring time change.

So it's not a simple issue. Then again, if you're driving home from work this evening and notice you could still squeeze in a couple of holes, you probably aren't complaining.
...
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ar...aving-you-can-thank-the-golf-industry-sort-of

Regarding the bolded:

I remember seeing an episode of Book TV on C-SPAN2 about that book around the time it came out (2005).

Downing's presentation was interesting enough to stick in my mind after all this time.

I couldn't find a video for it on YouTube/Rumble/Odysee, so here's the relevant C-SPAN page:

https://www.c-span.org/program/book...annual-madness-of-daylight-saving-time/142152
April 15, 2005
Book TV
Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time

Mr. Downing talked about his book of social history, Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time, published by Shoemaker and Hoard. He explored the origins and controversies surrounding Daylight Saving Time. First proposed in 1907 in London, the book argued that it was the most unscientific public policy ever perpetrated. In his remarks Mr. Downing talked about various interests and reasons for adopting Daylight Saving Time, the results of several attempts to institute the practice on wide scale levels, and misperceptions about the practice. Following his remarks he answered questions from the audience.

[... VIDEO AT LINK ...]

//
 
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