Trump reverses longstanding policy on Israeli settlements. Another neoconservative donors win?

[Swordsmyth]

There is no intervention that I'm aware of.

And notice now that he's trying to deceitfully ascribe support for communists to me rather than simply acknowledge the simple, straightforward reality that in that Bolivia thread expressing disapproval for the bad actions of others in another country is obviously considered by him to be meaningful, but here that same kind of thing is meaningless.

My opinion as a private citizen of foreigners breaking their own laws has no connection our government expressing an opinion that a foreign government is "breaking international law" with an internal policy.
Do you support government intervention and globalism?

 

[acptulsa]

And notice now that he's trying to deceitfully ascribe support for communists to me rather than simply acknowledge the simple, straightforward reality that in that Bolivia thread expressing disapproval for the bad actions of others in another country is obviously considered by him to be meaningful, but here that same kind of thing is meaningless.

And libertarians are leftists, too. Debate is hard; calling names is easy.

The spin never ends.

Do you support government intervention and globalism?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, what intervention?

 

[CCTelander]

And libertarians are leftists, too. Debate is hard; calling names is easy.

The spin never ends.

Now he's deceitfully attempting to imply I support "government intervention and globalism," which I specifically ruled out with my comment that there was no intervention that I'm aware of. It never ends.

 

[Swordsmyth]

And libertarians are leftists, too. Debate is hard; calling names is easy.

The spin never ends.

That's your MO alright.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, what intervention?

You've already been told:

this is about opening our mouths and telling them what they can and can't do in their own territory.
I'll bet this has legal consequences to, basically sanctions. And if it doesn't then it is meaningless.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Now he's deceitfully attempting to imply I support "government intervention and globalism," which I specifically ruled out with my comment that there was no intervention that I'm aware of. It never ends.

Pretending ignorance will get you nothing.

 

[acptulsa]

You've already been told:

So, you think it accomplishes something for Trump to be Adelson's lap dog and end some meaningless nonintervening resolution that has been doing nothing since 1978 because "intervention intervention intervention intervention".

Got it. I disagree. Put on your big boy pants and deal.

Pretending ignorance will get you nothing.

The voice of considerable experience.

 

[CCTelander]

So, you think it accomplishes something for Trump to be Adelson's lap dog and end some meaningless nonintervening resolution that has been doing nothing since 1978 because "intervention intervention intervention intervention".

Got it. I disagree. Put on your big boy pants and deal.



The voice of considerable experience.

It's precious to see him calling ME a liar. ROTFLMFAO!!!

 

[acptulsa]

It's precious to see him calling ME a liar. ROTFLMFAO!!!

What else is new? His tactics were perfected in third grade.

 

[Swordsmyth]

If Trump did to some communist country what he just undid with Israel this forum would be screaming that it was foreign meddling and none of our business and proof he was a Neocon.

 

[acptulsa]

If Trump did to some communist country what he just undid with Israel this forum would be screaming that it was foreign meddling and none of our business and proof he was a Neocon.

You say that like Israel is not "some communist country".

Quick quiz: Who owns 93.5% of the land there?

 

[Swordsmyth]

You say that like Israel is not "some communist country".

Quick quiz: Who owns 93.5% of the land there?

That's a nice deflection but I didn't say whether it is one or not and it doesn't matter whether it is one or not.
Israel is singled out for hate (some deserved) around here and intervention against it is winked at while communist countries are often irrationally defended (see the Bolivia thread), and Trump is attacked for anything he does good or bad by the TDS victims.

If Trump did to some communist country what he just undid with Israel this forum would be screaming that it was foreign meddling and none of our business and proof he was a Neocon.

 

[acptulsa]

If Trump did to some communist country what he just undid with Israel...

That's a nice deflection but I didn't say whether it is one or not...

Perhaps not, but you made a clear distinction where no clear distinction exists.

Proper English usage among none propagandists would be, "...did to some other communist country what he just undid with Israel..."

 

[Swordsmyth]

It wasn't "longstanding" either.



[h=2]Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Monday that the U.S. had reversed the policy of Presidents Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama, who declared Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria (the “West Bank”) illegal.[/h] Israel took over the region during the Six Day War in June 967, after Jordan, ignoring pleas from Israel to stay out of the unfolding war with Egypt and Syria, began shelling western Jerusalem. Israel’s counter-attack was victorious.
Though the area is commonly described as “occupied,” Israel has long maintained that the territory is actually “disputed,” since Jordan had no sovereign right to the territory. If anything, Israel has a superior legal claim, resting on the Balfour Declaration on 1917 and the subsequent League of Nations approval of the British Mandate, which included provision for a Jewish National Home in Palestine. Palestinians also claim the area for their future state.
Jews had lived in portions of Judea and Samara for millennia. It is the Biblical cradle of the Jewish faith; Jews also lived in Jerusalem, Hebron, and other areas. Many were killed or expelled in the 1948 war of independence, but some began coming back, and establishing new settlements on state land, from 1968 onward. Critics alleged that Israel was violating the Fourth Geneva Convention, which deals with occupied territories, but Israel countered that the territory was not “occupied”; that Palestinians were not being expelled; and that Jews were entering voluntarily.
In 1978, the Carter administration adopted the position that the settlements violated international law. President Ronald Reagan reversed that policy, but then Obama reinstated it during the lame duck days of his administration.
Secretary Pompeo issued a statement explaining the administration’s legal reasoning (original emphasis):

After carefully studying all sides of the legal debate, this Administration agrees with President Reagan. The establishment of Israeli civilian settlements in the West Bank is not per seinconsistent with international law.
I want to emphasize several important considerations.
First, we recognize, as Israeli courts have, that legal conclusions relating to individual settlements must depend on an assessment of specific facts and circumstances on the ground. Therefore, the U.S. Government is expressing no view on the legal status of any individual settlement. The Israeli legal system affords an opportunity to challenge settlement activity and assess humanitarian considerations. Israeli courts have confirmed the legality of certain settlement activities and has concluded that others cannot be legally sustained.
Second, we are not addressing or prejudging the ultimate status of the West Bank – that is for Israelis and Palestinians to negotiate. International law does not compel a particular outcome, nor create any legal obstacle to a negotiated resolution.
Third, the conclusion that we will no longer recognize Israeli settlements as per se inconsistent with international law is based on the unique facts, history, and circumstances presented by the establishment of civilian settlements in the West Bank. Our decision today does not prejudice or decide legal conclusions regarding situations in other parts of the world.
Finally, calling the establishment of civilian settlements inconsistent with international law has not advanced the cause of peace. The hard truth is that there will never be a judicial resolution to the conflict, and arguments about who is right and who is wrong as a matter of international law will not bring peace. This is a complex political problem that can only be solved by negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians.
The United States remains deeply committed to helping facilitate peace, and I will do everything I can to help this cause. The United States encourages Israelis and Palestinians to resolve the status of Israeli settlements in the West Bank in any final status negotiations. Further, we encourage both sides to find a solution that promotes and protects the security and welfare of Palestinians and Israelis alike.

​

More at: https://www.breitbart.com/middle-ea...policy-declaring-israeli-settlements-illegal/

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Since when is it a Ron Paul position that America should dictate to another country such policies?

30 Sep, 2019
Forget The Impeachment Circus…Here’s What Congress Should Really Investigate! – Ron Paul Institute
While the country is being dragged through the three ring impeachment circus – which is all about politics and nothing about policy, President Trump’s secret wars and interventions across the globe continue. Venezuela, Middle East, Lithuania…the intervention is on overdrive. But Congress has no interest in its Constitutional obligations when it comes to war. Political theater is far more exciting.
youtube.com/watch?v=eH48AP5eRK0

Maybe we should find out what Ron thinks now that Trump has a record of actual actions instead of just words.
Maybe we should think for ourselves.

Are we no longer advocatig 'thinking for ourselves'.

Whether you like it or not it is an internal Israeli issue and this is a decision Ron probably would have made, just like the embassy decision.

When questions showing contradictions in your sometimes fallacious arguments are raised, you tend to disappear from debates, hopefully you'll be able to defend your stances in this case.
Quoted view is either ignorant or based on illogical reasoning.

After US taxpayers $38 Billion financial aid being given to them, US has no say in their occupations of other peoples and other peples lands enabled by US taxpayers funded military?
Did you know that top donor odf MAGA was memebr of this foreign country's military and did you have any problem with that?
When US funded military and equipment are used to steal land and oppress natives of a land, does that create any blowback risks for America and US soldiers/Americans around the world?

Do you know what caused WTC1/2/7's fall?

Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel

US taxpayers paid more to Israeli military budget than Israelis

Billboards calling for cutting aid to Israel springing up across Montana

LewRockwell.com: U.S. Senators Are Nearly All Stooges for Israel



Trump is a Friend of Zion

Zionists and their allies are deliberately flooding us with hostile foreigners and using them to enslave us so that our choices are to submit or divide and probably fight.

Do you view MAGA as a "Zionists ally"?




Related

Ron Paul: Israeli blockade of Gaza horrible & act of war, US morally responsible

 

[jmdrake]

Since when is it a Ron Paul position that America should dictate to another country such policies?
Whether you like it or not it is an internal Israeli issue and this is a decision Ron probably would have made, just like the embassy decision.

He wouldn't support bankrolling the Israeli settlements with taxpayer dollars because he's against foreign aid in general so it really wouldn't matter what he thought about Israel's settlement policy one way or the other.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

17 hours ago

US Embassy in Israel issues travel warning to Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza after settlement shift

By Talia Kaplan | Fox News
The United States Embassy in Israel has issued a travel warning to Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, cautioning about Palestinian unrest following Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s announcement on Monday that the U.S. government will ease its stance on Israeli settlements.
“The U.S. Embassy advises U.S. citizens in or considering travel to or through Jerusalem, the West Bank, or Gaza to maintain a high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness in light of the current environment,” The embassy said in a security alert on Monday.
“Individuals and groups opposed to the secretary of state’s recent announcement may target U.S. government facilities, U.S. private interests and U.S. citizens. Potential targets include public events, such as demonstrations, holiday events, and celebratory gatherings; hotels, clubs, and restaurants popular with U.S. citizens; places of worship; schools; shopping malls and markets; tourism infrastructure; public transportation and airports.”
foxnews.com/politics/us-embassy-in-israel-issues-travel-warning-to-jerusalem-west-bank-gaza-after-settlement-shift

Israel says it wants peace with its neighbors- but it doesn't act like it. Building settlements in their territory and controlling all of their actions- personally, economically, and physically will NOT make them more friendly to you. Giving them the same freedoms and respect you offer your own citizens will get you much closer.

Following doesn't look very peaceful approach.
Perhaps time has come for current Polish-Israeli, Russian-Israeli leadership of Israel to sit down with native Israelis and Palestinians to sort out a peaceful freedom based solution to this tough problem and in parallel workout deals with Poland, Russia, France, New York and other Christian culture regions to stop generation of abused, traumatized jewish refugees who are being forced to find refuge in Israeli settlements on Palestinian land in violation of International Law. Perhaps tie these deals to new Global Campaign against Anti-Semitism just launched by CUFI supported current GOP-MAGA wing leadership.



In Strike That Killed 5 Children, Israel Said It Took Out Gaza Militant. Now It Isn’t Sure.

The Israeli military said it has begun an investigation into who was actually killed in an airstrike that Palestinians said caused the deaths of eight civilians.

A funeral for members of the al-Swarka family in Deir al-Balah in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, after their house was hit by an Israeli airstrike.

By Iyad Abuheweila and David M. Halbfinger
Nov. 15, 2019
DEIR El-BALAH, Gaza Strip — Ismail al-Swarka was shaken from slumber after midnight on Thursday by what sounded like four missile blasts. Then he heard his neighbors screaming. What he found outside was horrifying: Eight of his relatives, including five children, had been killed in an airstrike, with several more badly wounded.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-civilian-casualties.html


34 Palestinians Killed in Two Days as Israel Bombs Gaza Strip

Nov 14, 2019

In the Gaza Strip, Palestinians have agreed to a tenuous ceasefire with Israel’s military after Israel launched its biggest attacks on the territory in months. After the ceasefire took effect overnight, at least five rockets were launched from Gaza, prompting air raid alarms in southern Israel, where 1 million Israeli children were ordered to remain at home. Several Israelis reported minor injuries from falling rockets. Gaza’s Health Ministry says 34 Palestinians were killed in the fighting, with dozens more wounded. Among the dead were eight members of a single family — including five children — who were crushed to death when an Israeli airstrike flattened their home. The fighting erupted after Israel bombed the home of a senior member of the Palestinian group Islamic Jihad on Tuesday, killing the commander and his wife and injuring their children.

More than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza have bone infections after being shot by Israeli forces

October 15, 2019
Disabled Palestinians who lost their legs from Israeli fire during protests at the Gaza-Israel fence wait to receive crutches funded by Viva Malaysia, in Gaza city, on July 19, 2018. (Photo: Ashraf Amra/APA Images)

Treating drug-resistant infections in Gaza under the blockade
Medicin Sans Frontieres 2 Sept. 2019-More than 7,400 Palestinians have been injured by live ammunition during protests in Gaza. About half of those suffering from open fractures, in which the bone is broken near the wound. More than 1,000 of them have developed bone infections; these serious and complex wounds require months – if not years – of dressing, surgery, and physiotherapy. Infections prevent recovery and many of them are resistant to antibiotics. To prevent the spread of resistant bacteria, those with resistant infections have to be isolated in a single room for six weeks. Everyone entering the room must wear protective clothing and clean their hands. MSF has developed the first lab in Gaza that is able to analyze bone samples.





Related

Michael Oren accuses ‘New Yorker’ of anti-Semitism for questioning Jewish right to move from US to West Bank

May 12, 2019 101 Comments
Michael Oren in the Golan Heights. From his twitter feed in February 2019.
This weekend everyone is talking about a revealing interview with Michael Oren by Isaac Chotiner in the New Yorker, titled, “Michael Oren cuts short a conversation about Israel.” The short version is that Oren, Israel’s former ambassador to the U.S. and deputy prime minister, just blew himself up.
When Chotiner pressed Oren about the future of the two-state solution, Oren said Jews have an absolute right to settle in the West Bank as much as in Haifa, and Chotiner said, “You were born in New York . . . Where did you get that right?” Oren answered, “It’s my heritage for three thousand years.” Chotiner said, “You are saying that wherever they are living, they [Palestinians] have less right to be there than you as a Jew born in New York.”
Then Oren bridles and says the New Yorker is promoting “delegitimization” of the Jewish state. He hangs up the phone.

“The great thing about the Oren interview is that he’s being honest and the argument sucks so bad he can’t even have a conversation,” Scott Roth wrote on Twitter. “It’s glorious!”
https://mondoweiss.net/2019/05/micha...m-questioning/



Make Settlers Great Again
Americans Disproportionately Leading the Charge in Settling the West Bank
Are they being nudged there by the stealth efforts of the Israeli government and its NGO allies?
By Judy Maltz
Jun 23, 2017
Immigration statistics are a matter of great pride for Israeli leaders. What better proof of the success of the Zionist project, they ask, than the fact that tens of thousands of Jews from around the world choose to make Israel their home each year?
But among the charts and tables that accompany the publication of these statistics each year, one bit of information tends to get lost: the number of immigrants moving to West Bank settlements. Not because the figure doesn’t exist, but because Israeli officials would rather not draw attention to it. After all, most of the world considers the settlements a major impediment to peace in the Middle East.
haaretz.com/israel-news/...bank-1.5486975
​

Breaking: Flynn says Trump directed him to make contact with Russians
UN resolution against Israeli settlements at center of Flynn guilty plea

• Mueller probing Kushner’s 2016 attempts to block UNSC settlement resolution
  
• Ex-Trump adviser Flynn charged with lying to FBI in Russia probe
  

December 1, 2017
In the lead up to the anti-settlement resolution which angered Jerusalem, Trump’s team had urged the US to veto the resolution.
Jerusalem Post

Jared Kushner Failed to Disclose He Led a Foundation Funding Illegal Israeli Settlements Before U.N. Vote
12/3/17
http://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushne...e-house-729290


Netanyahu promises no Palestinian state if he is re-elected

WaPo: Netanyahu offers West Bank annexation to right-wing voters ahead of cliffhanger election
Opinion polls show Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party locked in a very tight race with the Blue and White party.

As Israel votes, Donald Trump proves he's the 'King of Israel'

Kim Hjelmgaard, USA TODAY Published Sept. 16, 2019
Every American president in modern times has been staunchly pro-Israel, President Donald Trump perhaps more than most. USA TODAY

RAMAT TRUMP, Golan Heights – It's been branded a hollow public relations exercise. It may not actually get built. It's surrounded by hostile military land. And as for the well-known preference for luxury real estate and trademark bling of the family whose name it would ultimately bear, it almost certainly won't be a shining example anytime soon.
But a planned Israeli community named "Ramat Trump" in Hebrew, or "Trump Heights," around 12 miles from the Syrian border – right in the heart of territory the United States alone recognizes as legal Israeli territory – nevertheless encapsulates a defining tenet of U.S. foreign policy: Every American president in modern times, citing shared history and values and an unshakeable security commitment, has been staunchly pro-Israel.
President Donald Trump perhaps more than most.
"Trump's a true friend of Israel," said Haim Rokach, the head of the Golan Heights Regional Council that is overseeing the fledgling "Trump Heights" initiative in Bruchim, a shabby village, population approximately 7-10, that is part of Kela Alon, a larger adjoining community of 80-90 families who are predominantly secular Israeli Jews.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/2333266001/


Israel elections: Netanyahu, Lieberman fight for the 'Russian vote'

As elections loom closer, the Russian-speaking community in Israel is being aggressively courted by the two feuding right-wing leaders
Tel Aviv, Israel
5 September 2019

Soon after being forced to announce that another legislative election would take place on 17 September after he failed to secure a comfortable majority during an April vote, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made two statements.
First, he labelled Avigdor Lieberman, the Soviet-born head of right-wing secular nationalist party Yisrael Beiteinu, a "leftist". Second, he announced, in a threatening manner, that he would invest 50m shekels ($14m) in a campaign aimed at the Russian-Israeli vote.
The two statements complement each other.
Lieberman, himself a veteran immigrant from Moldova, is the head of what is still considered a sectarian "Russian" party in Israel. In April elections, this electorate only brought him five seats out of 120 in Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, but it is still perceived as his clan.

The ‘Russian vote’
With almost one million immigrants from the former Soviet Union in Israel, amounting to a block of about 15-16 seats in parliament, the Russian community naturally finds itself in the middle of this power struggle.
They are largely considered right-wingers, yet also as a less committed swing vote. Over the 30 years since the first huge wave of migration from the collapsing Soviet Union, their vote brought late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin to power in 1992. Doing so, they allowed the Oslo Accords to be signed - only to fiercely oppose them just one year later.
middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-election-lieberman-netanyahu-fight-russian-vote


Far Right groups pushed anti-semitic conspiracy theories claiming Trump was being blackmailed by Jews
https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/rober...ican-democrat/

How The Icke Meme Tries To Discredit 'MAGA'

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FLOOD OF CONDEMNATIONS OF NYT FOR ANTISEMITIC CARTOON...
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Former CIA Officer: US Fighting Israel's Wars

Trump Says if He Runs in Israel He Would Get 98% of The Vote

Top-neocon reverses course, says Trump's ‘most pro-Israel president ever’

US Officially Sends Largest Ever $38 Billion Military Aid Package to Israel

Former CIA Officer: US Fighting Israel's Wars

US resolution on Gaza violence at UN Security Council gets only 1 vote


Mondoweiss crosses the line, calls MAGA 'Adelson’s perfect little puppet'

Mega-donor Miriam Adelson, Now Israel's Richest Person
Israeli-born Dr. Adelson, wife of U.S. casino tycoon and philanthropist Sheldon Adelson, is a new addition to Israel's rich list this year — jumping straight to first place
Jun 20, 2019
Total worth in 2019: $22,000,000,000 Stock market value: $20,800,000,000

Trump ally Gov. DeSantis signed bill censors criticism of Israel in FL public schools

 

[Swordsmyth]

Are we no longer advocatig 'thinking for ourselves'.

Feel free to think for yourselves.
If you wish to disagree with Ron's noninterventionism and make a case for American intervention against Israel then let's hear it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

He wouldn't support bankrolling the Israeli settlements with taxpayer dollars because he's against foreign aid in general so it really wouldn't matter what he thought about Israel's settlement policy one way or the other.

I agree with the first and wish that we would cut off ALL foreign aid both for the sake of reducing the budget and to deny the US government the power to use it to intervene in other countries' affairs by threatening to reduce or withdraw it if they do not do as they demand.

What he thought about the settlements would indeed not matter much because he would say it wasn't our business.

 

[acptulsa]

I agree with the first and wish that we would cut off ALL foreign aid both for the sake of reducing the budget and to deny the US government the power to use it to intervene in other countries' affairs by threatening to reduce or withdraw it if they do not do as they demand.

What he thought about the settlements would indeed not matter much because he would say it wasn't our business.

Same spin, different day.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Less foreign intervention is always good.

The richer one in the Top donor couple of current liberal progressive GOPA wing is a foreign military member and richest person of a foreign country.
Yet any anti-foreign-interventionists who identify as MAGAites never speak about that, why is that?