Trump indictment #2: classified documents @ Mar-a-Lago [US / federal]

[dannno]

They can declas but they can't fail to declas, then try to say they declassed documents that were not declassed
especially if they are no longer in office and are holding those documents next to the potty. Ya know.

This is a very dishonest argument that doesn't take into account what declassification even means.

Let's say Trump is President and he goes to a foreign country and is negotiating with a foreign leader regarding some troop movements. The leader asks the President about some troops in a particular area. The troop locations are classified. Under your logic, Trump would either have to say, "Sorry, that information is classified, I cannot discuss the location of troops." Or he would have to return to the White House, fill out some paperwork, beg the bureaucratic deep state to let him share the information, maybe give them head or something, then go back for another meeting with the foreign leader. Sorry, but that's insane. That isn't how things work.

Or, what would actually happen in the real world, Trump can 'declassify' the information in order to discuss with the foreign leader. That doesn't mean the information is declassified in the sense that every person in the world gets to see it, it just means he can share that information with the foreign leader. He could also later share that information with a reporter. It's all up to him, as the President has ultimate authority over classification. Period.

Trump declassified the documents when he took them. By the action of him taking them. There is no debate or argument to be had. That is what the Constitution says. You need to stop listening to the fake news.

All this classification nonsense was made up after the Constitution was implemented. All of the rules they made up, applies to everybody in government, except the President.. because the President can literally do whatever he wants in this regard.

 

[dannno]

Trump apologists, including a disturbingly large and apparently growing number here on RPFs, will “forget,” ignore or excuse Trumps manifold actual crimes in favor of political expediency.

Which ones? The only crimes I can think of that Trump committed, were committed by Obama and Bush ten fold or more.. and are related to our foreign policy.

I'd be willing to put Trump in prison, if they also put Obama and Bush Jr. in prison at the same time, along with many others in the deep state for longer sentences.

You got any others?

 

[acptulsa]

Have you ever bothered to read the Constitution?

All of the documents are copies, the government still has the originals. So not sure what you are talking about regarding "ownership". You've also been wrong about the President's abilities to declassify documents, of which they have the ultimate authority. All of those rules and procedures are for everybody in the government - except the President. That's what is in the Constitution, which you clearly have not bothered to read.

Have you? Care to quote the relevant passage of the Constitution to us?

 

[Snowball]

Trump declassified the documents when he took them. By the action of him taking them. There is no debate or argument to be had. That is what the Constitution says. You need to stop listening to the fake news.

No. Sure, the docs were his to read when he was president, but he did not somehow automatically "declassify" them just by taking them. Declassify means anyone can read them, or at least non-top secret government officials can. Didn't happen. He knew he wasn't supposed to take them without declassifying them first, and then he kept them in his private home, while no longer president, and did not remit them. He also shared or talked about them with civilians, according to their upcoming testimonies. Declassification is an actual order, a process, a fiat. He did not exercise that order, process, or fiat simply by moving them to his private home. One example of the documents would be the ones that contain actual, actionable and premeditated DETAILED Pentagon schema to attack another country (likely Iran). He would be impeached if he attempted to declassify something like that. It would be more treasonous than anything Snowden or Manning did.

 

[dannno]

No. Sure, the docs were his to read when he was president, but he did not somehow automatically "declassify" them just by taking them. Declassify means anyone can read them, or at least non-top secret government officials can. Didn't happen. He knew he wasn't supposed to take them without declassifying them first, and then he kept them in his private home, while no longer president, and did not remit them. He also shared or talked about them with civilians, according to their upcoming testimonies. Declassification is an actual order, a process, a fiat. He did not exercise that order, process, or fiat simply by moving them to his private home. One example of the documents would be the ones that contain actual, actionable and premeditated DETAILED Pentagon schema to attack another country (likely Iran). He would be impeached if he attempted to declassify something like that. It would be more treasonous than anything Snowden or Manning did.

I explained why this is completely wrong in my post, then you deleted that part of my post when you responded to it.

Are you just trying to tickle your anus, are you trying to deceive other people on the forum, or are you actually trying to have a debate? Because the latter seems to be very unlikely at this point.

 

[Snowball]

I explained why this is completely wrong in my post, then you deleted that part of my post when you responded to it.

Are you just trying to tickle your anus, are you trying to deceive other people on the forum, or are you actually trying to have a debate?

haha. bud all you said was "muh Consitution". I don't call that an argument.

 

[dannno]

haha. bud all you said was "muh Consitution". I don't call that an argument.

Wrong.

​

This is a very dishonest argument that doesn't take into account what declassification even means.

Let's say Trump is President and he goes to a foreign country and is negotiating with a foreign leader regarding some troop movements. The leader asks the President about some troops in a particular area. The troop locations are classified. Under your logic, Trump would either have to say, "Sorry, that information is classified, I cannot discuss the location of troops." Or he would have to return to the White House, fill out some paperwork, beg the bureaucratic deep state to let him share the information, maybe give them head or something, then go back for another meeting with the foreign leader. Sorry, but that's insane. That isn't how things work.

Or, what would actually happen in the real world, Trump can 'declassify' the information in order to discuss with the foreign leader. That doesn't mean the information is declassified in the sense that every person in the world gets to see it, it just means he can share that information with the foreign leader. He could also later share that information with a reporter. It's all up to him, as the President has ultimate authority over classification. Period.

Trump declassified the documents when he took them. By the action of him taking them. There is no debate or argument to be had. That is what the Constitution says. You need to stop listening to the fake news.

All this classification nonsense was made up after the Constitution was implemented. All of the rules they made up, applies to everybody in government, except the President.. because the President can literally do whatever he wants in this regard.

Anybody who reads that ^

Then reads your post, would see that you clearly didn't read my post, and you don't understand what we are even talking about.

 

[acptulsa]

haha. bud all you said was "muh Consitution". I don't call that an argument.

Especially since he's unable to quote any part of it to back up his big mouth.

 

[Snowball]

Especially since he's unable to quote any part of it to back up his big mouth.

49 page indictment text

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...indictment-read-the-49-page-document/4409273/

Reads like a sad tale. So unnecessary. Beavis and Butthead material.

 

[Snowball]

July 21, 2021.. a year and a half after leaving office, and still not sending docs requested back:

Trump (Beavis): Except it is like, highly confidential.
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah. (laughter)
Trump: (Beavis) Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and -
(redacted)
Trump (Beavis): By the way. Isn't that incredible?
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah.
it goes on.. then,
Trump (Beavis): See as president I could have declassified it.
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah. (laughter)
Trump (Beavis): Now I can't, you know. But this is still a secret.
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah. (laughter) Now we have a problem.
Trump (Beavis): Isn't that interesting?

 

[acptulsa]

July 21, 2021.. a year and a half after leaving office, and still not sending docs requested back:

Maybe these Trump something Suckers TDS types would admit that this obvious setup is a setup if I said, "Must be a 3D chess move."

 

[acptulsa]

https://twitter.com/15poundstogo/status/1668334320011067395

So, he was negotiating blackmail with them, but couldn't find a more secure place for the paydirt but the bathroom?

 

[Swordsmyth]

They can declas but they can't fail to declas, then try to say they declassed documents that were not declassed
especially if they are no longer in office and are holding those documents next to the potty. Ya know.

The act of taking them with him declassified them.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Wrong.

​

Anybody who reads that ^

Then reads your post, would see that you clearly didn't read my post, and you don't understand what we are even talking about.

They will never admit the truth.
They need Trump to be guilty so nothing will change that conclusion.

 

[Swordsmyth]

https://twitter.com/15poundstogo/status/1668334320011067395

So, he was negotiating blackmail with them, but couldn't find a more secure place for the paydirt but the bathroom?

Did it ever occur to you that if the media and the Brandon regime say it you should perhaps not believe it?

 

[Swordsmyth]

July 21, 2021.. a year and a half after leaving office, and still not sending docs requested back:

Trump (Beavis): Except it is like, highly confidential.
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah. (laughter)
Trump: (Beavis) Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and -
(redacted)
Trump (Beavis): By the way. Isn't that incredible?
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah.
it goes on.. then,
Trump (Beavis): See as president I could have declassified it.
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah. (laughter)
Trump (Beavis): Now I can't, you know. But this is still a secret.
Staffer (Butthead): Yeah. (laughter) Now we have a problem.
Trump (Beavis): Isn't that interesting?

Hearsay.
There is no such recording.

 

[acptulsa]

Did it ever occur to you that if the media and the Brandon regime say it you should perhaps not believe it?

Did it ever occur to you that the Biden regime did not and would never, ever admit to spying on Trump? Or is your binary thinking so incompatible with rationality that you figure only Biden could have generated everything you don't like, right back to the enslavement of the Israelites by Egypt? I also didn't say anything that didn't have a question mark at the end.

So, um, yeah, of course it has. How very dense of you not to notice. Why do you ask?

Hearsay.
There is no such recording.

Um...

Somebody talks about Trump and an aide imitating Beavis and Butthead, and you deny the existence of the recording but not the conversation itself?

And talk about hearsay as though you believe that conversation happened, it's just that nobody can prove it? You believe it's a distinct possibility that Trump was imitating Beavis?

If you had a sense of humor you could avoid these pratfalls. Of course, what would help more...



Maybe you don't stick on things where one will do because you're arrogant, and lack one single subtle bone in your body. Maybe you're hoping we'll do the same, because rubbing your nose in those warning signs is the only way you can spot the stuff.

 

[Snowball]

The act of taking them with him declassified them.

Maybe for himself, but not to store them on private property while he's not POTUS and deny to remit them.

Anyway !! That's his opinion and yours. I'm sure it's the most important thing in his life, and somehow it was all worth it.

Either that or he's just a real bonehead.

So, he has the right to defend himself in a court of law. Hopefully he wins. But he might not.

He also has 2 more indictments coming. One for inciting disorder on January 6th, another for trying to bully the GA governor into finding more votes for him. This is what the best presidents ever do. They mess up on a scale like this. He is a GENIUS.

A federal appeals court in a 2020 Freedom of Information Act case, New York Times v. CIA, underscored that point: “Declassification cannot occur unless designated officials follow specified procedures,” the court said.
https://www.americanbar.org/news/ab...es/2022/10/fact-check-presidential-authority/

The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday refused to reinstate a federal judge’s order requiring classified documents seized from the residence of former President Donald Trump to be reviewed by a special master.

The Supreme Court denied the emergency request by Trump’s lawyers in a short order that did not indicate any dissent

The New York Times characterized the Supreme Court order as “a stinging rebuke” to Trump. The Washington Post, CNN and Politico also have coverage.
https://www.abajournal.com/news/art...echnical-request-in-classified-documents-case

Fun Stuff. Certainly better than sending them back to the GAO and then getting the personal papers back anyway.
That would have been BORING.

 

[acptulsa]

Fun Stuff. Certainly better than sending them back to the GAO and then getting the personal papers back anyway.
That would have been BORING.

And not Alpha. To these people, Alpha is claiming the Constitution has a secret paragraph no one has ever seen that lays out in explicit detail just how bratty Trump can be.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Maybe for himself, but not to store them on private property while he's not POTUS and deny to remit them.

Exactly. The act of taking classified documents from the White House to a personal residence after his term expired, not telling anyone in the government about it, not formally saying in writing that they were declassified, resisting their return by delay, concealment, and causing his attorneys to make false statements are all fundamentally inconsistent with the notion that he declassified them. And then there's the tape that reflects that he showed a document to four other people (none of whom had security clearances) and says, "Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this...See as President I could have declassified it...Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret."