Trevor Lyman emailed RP supporters fake delegate map

[Jeremy]

edit: Trevor replied to an email I sent him about this and like I thought, he wasn't really sure about some of the sources. He still think it's accurate, but I don't agree with all of those sources. I also definitely don't agree with some of the people who implied he purposely spread false information. You can interpret the sources how you wish, but the Wikipedia map is unbiased and doesn't consider projections, so I'd stick to that.

This is getting pretty ridiculous. First it's being spread around Facebook, now Trevor Lyman is emailing it to his list. It's not a good thing if people think we won a state when we have not. A lot of these states aren't even done picking delegates yet... we still have work to do.

Fake:

Official:

(orange Romney, yellow Paul, green Santorum, purple Gingrich)

Even worse is that his map says May 1st... on May 1st Maine wasn't even won by Paul yet.

 

[KingNothing]

As long as we're just making things up, let's just say that Paul won Texas and California too.

I agree with Jeremy -- delusions/lies/distortions accomplish nothing good.

 

[brenton]

i don't understand why he'd do that. weird.

 

[WilliamC]

i don't understand why he'd do that. weird.

Simple. Either he's lying or he's stupid.

Repeat after me.

"I will not lie, cheat or steal nor will I tolerate those that do."

If a Ron Paul supporter is trying to lie, cheat or steal to advance Ron Paul then don't bring it to my attention because I won't tolerate it.

But of course it doesn't help to be overly accusatory either, so I'm always willing to be proven wrong and apologize if I've made a mistake.

I do make mistakes, and I expect to be called on them so I can correct myself.

 

[Jeremy]

Simple. Either he's lying or he's stupid.

Repeat after me.

"I will not lie, cheat or steal nor will I tolerate those that do."

If a Ron Paul supporter is trying to lie, cheat or steal to advance Ron Paul then don't bring it to my attention.

I'm assuming he just doesn't know any better.

 

[WilliamC]

I'm assuming he just doesn't know any better.

I don't think that anyone has a real understanding of how the delegate situation stands today since too many variables are yet to be fixed.

That's the purpose of the process, to bring order out of chaos in as non-violent a fashion as possible.

Always remember what the alternative is.

War.

 

[rb3b3]

maybe this is just his estimation, you know just like the aps and msm estimated delegate counts!!

 

[Jeremy]

maybe this is just his estimation, you know just like the aps and msm estimated delegate counts!!

The problem with that is he's claiming states like Alaska and NV are won by Paul even though they are bound to Romney. And the May 1st date implies Paul won these states already.

 

[Magicman]

Hey you guys why are you so quick to judge him he's not perfect why don't you contact him before you say bad things to him, some of us make mistakes because of our zealousness give the guy a break assholes

 

[cstarace]

The problem with that is he's claiming states like Alaska and NV are won by Paul even though they are bound to Romney. And the May 1st date implies Paul won these states already.

I thought Ben Swann said that under Rule 38 of the RNC, delegates are not allowed to be bound?

 

[WilliamC]

I thought Ben Swann said that under Rule 38 of the RNC, delegates are not allowed to be bound?

At the National level this seems true, but I am not completely sure as I haven't read the rules thoroughly yet and formed my own opinion.

 

[Elwar]

I have seen many such estimates based on the state delegates that are going to the convention.

I mean, we pretty much have Louisiana in the bag. They have the delegates, they just need the final vote at the convention.

Sure it is important that they get the win, but if the media can call all of these states before voting even begins, we should be able to guestimate the states that Ron Paul will likely win.

 

[Tod]

Jeremy, I'd say your posts on this topic are overly pessimistic and more likely to discourage the troops.

This guy's map may be overly optimistic about final outcomes, but it is surely more likely to excite and encourage RP supporters. I see a lot of excitement and and enthusiasm on Facebook that looks like it is serving to encourage continued participation and discussion.


News articles like this also bolster RP supporters. I don't believe they cause any of us to become complacent; just the opposite.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/18158026/ron-paul-takes-bulk-of-nevada-delegates

SPARKS, Nev. (AP) -- Supporters of Ron Paul's long-shot presidential bid trumped presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney in Nevada's delegate count, taking 22 delegates to the GOP national convention in August. Romney got three.

The results were certified Sunday as the state Republican convention slogged into a second day.

Romney won Nevada's caucus in February with half of the vote. Under party rules adopted last fall, Romney was to get 20 of Nevada's 28 delegates for the national convention, and Paul was to get eight.

Paul backers say delegates will abide by those rules in the first round of balloting at the national convention in Tampa.

It remains to be seen whether the Romney campaign or Republican National Committee will challenge Nevada's delegate results.

 

[Elwar]

Even the "Official" map shows Romney not winning North Dakota which he did.

 

[bbartlog]

I don't think his map is accurate, but let's not drag the guy through the mud - he's done a lot for liberty.

 

[Jeremy]

Even the "Official" map shows Romney not winning North Dakota which he did.

Must not be over yet, then.

 

[Jeremy]

Jeremy, I'd say your posts on this topic are overly pessimistic and more likely to discourage the troops.

This guy's map may be overly optimistic about final outcomes, but it is surely more likely to excite and encourage RP supporters. I see a lot of excitement and and enthusiasm on Facebook that looks like it is serving to encourage continued participation and discussion.


News articles like this also bolster RP supporters. I don't believe they cause any of us to become complacent; just the opposite.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/18158026/ron-paul-takes-bulk-of-nevada-delegates

Ignorance is not a worthy price to pay for false morale. Do you really want to claim we won all of those states already and then end up losing the ones we have a chance in because false rumors were spread?

 

[WilliamC]

I have seen many such estimates based on the state delegates that are going to the convention.

I mean, we pretty much have Louisiana in the bag. They have the delegates, they just need the final vote at the convention.

Sure it is important that they get the win, but if the media can call all of these states before voting even begins, we should be able to guestimate the states that Ron Paul will likely win.

As a scientist I am always aware of the difference between a qualified opinion (that is one based on partial knowledge and recognized as being subject to change) and presenting facts. Most people aren't and even I have to be careful all the time.

It's too easy to present a very well supported opinion as factual when it isn't, but this just obfuscates issues and causes people to not trust your real facts when you present them.

It's getting to the point where well meaning supporters can actually have negative impacts on future events by spreading false information unknowingly and don't doubt that there are those deliberately manufacturing this false information with the very aim of getting naive supporters to disseminate it.

I know I would, where I a lying sack of sh!t cheater who had no integrity or honor, because I can figure out how to do it.

Never underestimate your enemies, but never think they are anything but human either.

 

[Elwar]

Must not be over yet, then.

So if it is not over yet, why would the state show Santorum won it?

 

[Jeremy]

So if it is not over yet, why would the state show Santorum won it?

Sorry, never mind- ND is shown as a Santorum win. Here's the answer:

North Dakota did not allocate any delegates at their caucuses, but had a consultative straw poll that the NDGOP leadership was required to use as a basic for making a party recommended slate of delegates. The persons on this slate was elected delegates at the April 1 state convention. According to Santorum and Paul supporters the slate was not as required based on the straw poll, but gave Romney a large majority of the delegates. The elected delegates have stated that they will divide up in such a way they reflect the caucus result, even if that means to vote for a candidate other than the one they support.