Trayvon Martin was Caught with Women's Jewelry and a "Burglary Tool" in Earlier Suspension

Ya, re-read what I said, I think for the most part everybody here agrees there should be a trial.

He didn't attack him. You keep ignoring the evidence to support the other side of this argument like how the police didn't even want to hear how a woman witnessed Zimmerman pinning Trayvon to the ground with his knees on his arms and a young voice crying for help. How about how he was on the phone with his girlfriend and said that someone was following him and his girlfriend heard him ask "Why are you following me?" The evidence doesn't match what Zimmerman is saying. At least acknowledge what the other witnesses have said.
 
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He's not assuming anything. You are. He's going from the known fact which are the height and weight of both parties. How do you know Zimmerman was completely un-athletic? How do you know Trayvon was "in shape"? Because he wasn't fat? Zimmerman apparently was confident enough in his own physical prowess to approach this "scary athletic kid possibly used to fighting" in the first place. That...or he was confident in his ability to shoot to kill.

Edit: And it was your side that brought up the MMA argument.

My side? I thought I was quite clear I wasn't taking a side, maybe read it again.
 
oh, blah blah blah.
If somebody pointed him out to me and asked me if he was white, I'd answer yes. go take your bullshit elsewhere.

He's not white, this has been explained plenty of times, how about you think on this: If Zimmerman were a NHL player they'd be hailing him as a hero for being the first professional hispanic hockey player, but since he did something shameful, he's white. The media will go either way with it depending on what will gain them the most headlines.
 
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He's not white, this has been explained plenty of times, how about you think on this: If Zimmerman were a NHL player they'd be hailing him as a hero for being the first pro hispanic hockey player, but since he did something shameful, he's white. The media will go either way with it depending on what will gain them the most headlines.

sure looks white to me, you are welcome to your opinion. i dont really care what others would call him if he was magically in the nhl. if he was walking down the street a fair number of people would consider him white.

btw: there have already been hispanic nhl players, black players too.
 
Wow, still going strong here. The Police are coming out with some interesting information, such as the officers at the scene wanted to press charges on George, but the DA said they have no case. Who knows?

Cutcher and her roommate told CNN journalist Anderson Cooper that their own account of the incident to the police did not agree with Zimmerman's, and that they had demanded that the police retract that incorrect statement. They also said, about the police's attitude at the scene, that "they were siding with him [Zimmerman] from the start" and that they heard the pair in their backyard and a "very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They heard a gunshot; the crying stopped immediately, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees pinning Martin down on the ground

Now there's a narrative. The over 6 foot tall young man now sounds like a puppy being strangled and shot?

That's too far fetched. Let's try to come back to a more reasonable conspiracy theory. Let's say George jumped out of his car, chased the kid into the grassy area, and shot him dead after a brief verbal confrontation. Then George hit himself in the nose and the back of the head and rolled around on the grass to be more convincing before the Police arrived. Case closed. "If the grass does not fit, we must convict."

I don't believe anything from anyone at this point, but I have a good idea how it will all end.
 
He's not white, this has been explained plenty of times, how about you think on this: If Zimmerman were a NHL player they'd be hailing him as a hero for being the first professional hispanic hockey player, but since he did something shameful, he's white. The media will go either way with it depending on what will gain them the most headlines.
Hispanic is an ethnicity or a nationality. There are Black Hispanics, White Hispanics, even Asian Hispanics, believe it or not. Hispanic simply means the person is from a Spanish-speaking country, or their ancestors are.
 
Hispanic is an ethnicity or a nationality. There are Black Hispanics, White Hispanics, even Asian Hispanics, believe it or not. Hispanic simply means the person is from a Spanish-speaking country, or their ancestors are.

True enough, but government and the media has made a concerted effort over the past two decades to deny this reality and create a new "racial" group called Hispanic. So for them to finally recognize the white Hispanic at this particular point time is rich. But for them to recognize it as this point in time about a guy who clearly not a white Hispanic (Zimmerman is Mestizo, like the vast majority of American Hispanics) identifies them as the corrupt, lying, instruments of the Big Government Socialism than they are.
 
Dispatcher's always have to be careful about liability. Following a suspicious person can be dangerous, I agree. The dispatcher made clear the police didn't need him to follow the suspicious guy because he if Zimmerman ended up getting shot, he didn't want some plaintiff's attorney suing the department saying they encouraged Zimmerman to risk his life.

But Zimmerman wasn't shot - Martin was. The door swings both ways here, which is why the dispatcher told him not follow him first and foremost, because it is sound advice and common sense, and is the first thing any thinking human being would tell another in the situation to do. We agree on this. It is not, however, the dispatcher's position (or concern for that matter), of whether or not an attorney is going to come through after the fact, that is a ridiculous assertion to make.

It is a fact that their are armed citizens out there every bit as much as it is a fact that their are dangerous people that could have shot Zimmerman in this situation Again, this standard applies both ways, you are only applying it to Zimmerman here.


Following a suspicious person can be dangerous, yes.

Agreed. Which is why they advised him not to do it.

But it certainly isn't unlawful.

Nobody is questioning whether or not it was lawful. YOU keep saying this. Are you seriously suggesting his defense is going to challenge whether or not the dispatchers advise was binding or not, or that(even more laughable)that the prosecution would even try to claim the dispatcher's advise was legally binding? How do you not see how ridiculous this sounds?

And as it is not unlawful, what the dispatcher said, and what Zimmerman did up until the point Zimmerman and Martin finally came face to face, have nothing to do with whether a crime was committed by Zimmerman.

It was sound advise in the interest of BOTH parties involved as I pointed out earlier, and that a reasonable person would have heeded that advise, thus avoiding either one of them being hurt. This most certainly has something to do with whether or not Zimmerman was criminally culpable in Martin's death, and could be the prosecution's angle in this in a trial.




This is an important step. I'm glad you guys are finally starting to grasp the essential facts. Unwise/Unsound/Unsafe does not equal Unlawful. The former may have relevance in a civil lawsuit, but they can never be used to justify criminal charges.

:rolleyes: Unwise/Unsound/Unsafe can equal a manslaughter charge at minimum if Zimmerman continued to follow Martin as appears to be the case.

Nobody agreed with you, I've had a handle on the facts since the beginning, as I've only been questioning the events up to the point Zimmerman got out of his car, because THAT is where Zimmerman's actions are in question with regard to self-defense, NOT whether or not the dispatchers advise was legally binding, it is only you that continuously brings up this non-point, as everyone agrees it isn't legally binding.

Zimmerman was armed, and in no danger from Martin at this point. Things escalated because he got out of his vehicle and followed him. This is a different story for Martin, who also should have been protected by the very same standard you applied to Zimmerman. That is what is at issue here.
 
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Zimmerman was armed, and in no danger from Martin at this point. Things escalated because he got out of his vehicle and followed him. This is a different story for Martin, who also should have been protected by the very same standard you applied to Zimmerman. That is what is at issue here.

You don't seem to understand the law in this case. Nothing matters up until the point somebody attacked somebody else. Who got out of the car, Zimmerman disregarding the dispatcher's advice, Martin disregarding his girlfriend's advice. None of that matters. Both men were behaving in a perfectly lawful manner up until the point when they finally came face to face and a fight broke out. Who started that fight determines whether the shooting of Martin was a crime or a lawful killing. That's why I harp on whether what Zimmerman did was unlawful or unwise. Unlike you, I actually read the Chapter in the Florida Code dealing with Justifiable Force. I'm not just talking out my ass.

Unwise/Unsound/Unsafe can equal a manslaughter charge at minimum if Zimmerman continued to follow Martin as appears to be the case.

No. It can't. I've read the actual law, cited it numerous times in this thread, and challenged you and others to point to the statute Zimmerman supposedly violated, which of course you never do. Nothing he did prior to them coming face to face was a violation of Florida Criminal Code. If it is not a violation, it is not unlawful. If it is not unlawful, it has no bearing on whether force was justified.

If you want to make a legal case against Zimmerman rather than just an argument for a lynching, it should go something like this:

-When Zimmerman approached Martin, he pulled his gun and pointed it at him. That would constitute assault and constitute an unlawful act.
-When Zimmerman approached Martin, he says something like, "I'm gonna beat your ass, boy." This too would be assault.
-When Zimmerman approached Martin he grabbed him. This would be battery.
-The story is like Zimmerman said, but after Martin beat him, Martin got up and ran away. While he was running away, Zimmerman shoots. Under this scenario, Zimmerman can no longer claim a fear of great bodily harm and loses the right to use force.

This are all valid scenarios one could conjure up if you want to justify Zimmerman being arrested. The problem is there isn't a shred of evidence for them, and given the totality of what we know, they just don't have the ring of truth. Zimmerman is free because his story sounds credible and the evidence supports it. And if his story is true, no crime was committed under Florida Law. For a crime to have occurred, something like one of the scenarios I described would have to be proven. For an arrest to occur, the police or prosecutor needs to believe one of those scenarios occurred. Otherwise they'd be engaged in an unlawful arrest and malicious prosecution.
 
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Wow, still going strong here. The Police are coming out with some interesting information, such as the officers at the scene wanted to press charges on George, but the DA said they have no case. Who knows?



Now there's a narrative. The over 6 foot tall young man now sounds like a puppy being strangled and shot?

That's too far fetched. Let's try to come back to a more reasonable conspiracy theory. Let's say George jumped out of his car, chased the kid into the grassy area, and shot him dead after a brief verbal confrontation. Then George hit himself in the nose and the back of the head and rolled around on the grass to be more convincing before the Police arrived. Case closed. "If the grass does not fit, we must convict."

I don't believe anything from anyone at this point, but I have a good idea how it will all end.

If anything he and the kid got into an argument over why he was following him when he got out of his truck, then at that point Trayvon either saw him pull a gun and attacked him or attacked him without provocation, Zimmerman was struck in the nose, fell to the ground striking his head on the pavement,angry and wanting to defend himself against his assailant he fired the gun and shot Trayvon in the chest where he fell backwards landing face down. Zimmerman's story about being attacked from behind just doesn't add up with all the evidence.
 
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Actually, the lead homicide investigator pressed for a manslaughter charge. The DA declined to prosecute.
 
If anything he and the kid got into an argument over why he was following him when he got out of his truck, then at that point Trayvon either saw him pull a gun and attacked him or attacked him without provocation, Zimmerman was struck in the nose, fell to the ground striking his head on the pavement,angry and wanting to defend himself against his assailant he fired the gun and shot Trayvon in the chest where he fell backwards landing face down. Zimmerman's story about being attacked from behind just doesn't add up with all the evidence.

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. Zimmerman never claimed to have been attacked from behind. That's a lie the MSM fed you. Read the police report. Zimmerman says he was face to face with Martin. He asked Martin what he was doing there. Martin responded by asking Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no, and Martin replied, well you do now and struck him. If that's true, then Zimmerman isn't guilty of a crime. If Zimmerman started the fight or pulled his gun, then Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. So far though, there is no evidence to suggest Zimmerman started the fight. The investigation should continue, but as of now there is no basis for an arrest or charges to be filed.
 
Why do you guys even care about this case? The same thing happend about 100,000 times in the world today (i actually dont know how many murders happend)

People murder people everyday, and we through misguided belief and different skin pigments and we have to argue and treat everyone like racist and reverse racist.

Quit talking about this case, it is stupid, period.


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These thread trying to justify the killing of a kid, who was just minding his business that night, are sickening.
 
screw the courts, police and evidence. Lets let the MSM convict people, they are unbiased and have the best information
 
Once more, we don't have all of the evidence... it's easy to play armchair quarterback when all you know is what the corporate media is telling you. This is why I am not voicing my opinion in these Trayvon threads.


This !!!!!!!!!
 
sure looks white to me, you are welcome to your opinion. i dont really care what others would call him if he was magically in the nhl. if he was walking down the street a fair number of people would consider him white.

btw: there have already been hispanic nhl players, black players too.

How can someone's race be an opinion?
 
My side? I thought I was quite clear I wasn't taking a side, maybe read it again.

Fine. Poor wording on my part. My point is that the initial MMA comments bolstered the Zimmerman argument rather than the Trayvon argument. (140 lbs MMA fighters can put a hurting on somebody). Anyway, the current evidence suggests Zimmerman wasn't really hurt that bad after all.
 
That's a lie the MSM fed you.

How about the lie that the MSM fed you that the police didn't think there was enough basis for an arrest or a charge? The police arrested George Zimmerman. The lead investigator wanted to charge him. The state's attorney said no. I'm sure Zimmerman's dad being a retired judge and the pattern of charges against Zimmerman over the years being dropped or expunged had nothing to do with it right?

The investigation should continue, but as of now there is no basis for an arrest or charges to be filed.

The police didn't feel that way. But they got overruled.

See: http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...orge-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674
 
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