Too many liberty people have a defeatist attitude:

[Matt Collins]

Ron Paul 2012 spent next to no money in Virginia where he was up against Romney 1v1. Romney won 60%-40%, by less than 50,000 votes. I don't know why anyone was incensed about this. Didn't someone say something about picking your battles? This would've been a nice one to pick.

No, because it wasn't winnable. Ron could've unloaded his entire warchest, and Romney would've been able to double or triple that amount spent, and Romney would've been able to buy it.

There's no chance, so why even try, right? #Defeatist

LE is correct. Picking battles isn't the same as being a defeatist.

I would have challenged Romney in Virginia.

That's why you don't get paid good money to run multi-million dollar campaigns.

If you lose, well you were going down anyways.

Except for the fact the PCC would've lost all of its funds in the effort, which were indeed used to gain more delegates in other states. The more delegates we had, the bigger splash we could make, the more pain we could cause, and the more rules changes we could affect.

 

[Matt Collins]

And for anyone else who happens to be reading, I am refusing to respond to JJDoyle's comments because he is lying and making stuff up. I worked on the PCC in 2012, he did not.

 

[Matt Collins]

Yes I have done all of those things and learned it was a waste of time.

Then you were doing it wrong.

There is no resistance. These people are conservative Republicans and they spend my money like a drunken sailor.

Let me give you the formula for success:

1- build a list of everyone who cares about a specific issue
2- fundraise off that list
3- use those funds to grow that list
4- also use those funds to inform voters about specific politicians on that issue
5- if the politician still votes against you after you mobilize those who care about the issue, then replace the politician the following election

If you do that two or 3 times, you become feared, which means you become respected, and they become scared to cross you. Your goal is to gain political power.


It is a lot of work, but it isn't rocket science, and it isn't even really political "science".

 

[Matt Collins]

Nice rant Matt,, but I have a different perspective. I have no interest in Growing the GOP.
I would like to Defeat the GOP, and the Democrat party,, and any/all other parties.

Fair enough and trust me I'm sympathetic, but the fact is that there has been a 2 party system in the US since its inception, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Don't try and change the weather on the battlefield because you can't.

If winning requires a deal with the devil,, NO Thank You.

It doesn't.

I will wait for them all to be destroyed.
Call that defeatist if you will. I want something better.

Well you'll be waiting until infinity, and losing your rights in the mean time.

 

[LibertyEagle]

There's no chance, so why even try, right? #Defeatist

I would have challenged Romney in Virginia. If you lose, well you were going down anyways. If you win, you win all the delegates, and you prove you're the only candidate who can beat Romney. Paul got 40% without even trying. What if they tried? What if they got 25,000 to switch their votes from Romney to Paul? Enormous opportunity missed.

The campaign was gifted a chance to go 1v1, and they backed down. They were scared. If you can't beat the establishment pick mano a mano, how do you expect to win when the other stooges show up?

Bullshit. With limited funds, you choose the states you are going to go after. Virginia was not a good bet.

 

[fr33]

And for anyone else who happens to be reading, I am refusing to respond to JJDoyle's comments because he is lying and making stuff up. I worked on the PCC in 2012, he did not.

I actually think he tells a lot of hard truths. Unlike him I don't really hold a grudge over it because Ron Paul 2012 was about building a movement rather than becoming president. His posts are worth paying attention to though. Maybe it's just my perspective because I didn't think "the delegates are going to win it!" or "it's happening!" back then.

 

[Matt Collins]

As for changing the party leadership, how can you look at what happened at the 2012 national convention and consider anything that works toward changing the leadership of that party a waste of time?

Iowa, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Virginia, and a few smaller more isolated places show that the local / state leadership can in fact be changed.

We're heading into our third presidential election cycle. Are we not in it for the long term? If we were 'most Republicans', would we not have won by now? If we don't increase the GOP voting base, will it not continue it's previous trend of drying up and blowing away?

Good point, but the GOP's most likely source of new voters will be from the swing / independents, not those who are normally hard Democrat. A paradigm shift could indeed occur (it has multiple times), but that usually takes longer than a decade.

Is taking over a party the 'usual course'? Even so, did not evangelicals do a pretty good job of it back in the days when Newt was Speaker of the House? Did not the Moral Majority forces recruit and unify every evangelical they could muster, including those who were lifelong Democrats?!

Another good point.

They took it over with Reagan, but they lost power due to falling into the access trap and became largely ignored or pacified.

But the other aspect was that the Democrat Party was fundamentally changing at the time, becoming much more liberal. Remember when Al Gore was a good conservative family man for example?

Your efforts to get us to give up on winning over disaffected Democrats is not merely 'negativity', Matt. Given how it has past history of success, it has current promise, and it is clearly more immediately effective than such things as nullification, your efforts to discourage us from doing it amount to trollery and saboutage.

Good OP, Matt. Take your own advice when you give good advice, for a change.

You fail to understand that legislative battles can be won in many state legislatures in a single cycle or two. Changing peoples hearts and minds usually takes much longer than that.

 

[speciallyblend]

Matt Collins seems to fail to understand the only person driving us away is Rand Paul. As i said 6 months ago you should be addressing rand paul not us.

rand can only flip flop(romney) now like a fish out of water and I am not sure I could even buy that bs if he did!

Colorado Voters clearly showed we do not need rands pandering or the gop. As a matter of fact, Colorado Voters now know we do not need the gop/dnc or the federal gov. We can nullify the all!

Colorado Voters nullified the gop/dnc and the federal gov 2 times and we can do it again without rands bs.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Matt Collins seems to fail to understand the only person driving us away is Rand Paul. As i said 6 months ago you should be addressing rand paul not us.

rand can only flip flop(romney) now like a fish out of water and I am not sure I could even buy that bs if he did!

Colorado Voters clearly showed we do not need rands pandering or the gop. As a matter of fact, Colorado Voters now know we do not need the gop/dnc or the federal gov. We can nullify the all!

Colorado Voters nullified the gop/dnc and the federal gov 2 times and we can do it again without rands bs.

Too bad Colorado voters hate the 2nd Amendment though, isn't it?

 

[jjdoyle]

Bullshit. With limited funds, you choose the states you are going to go after. Virginia was not a good bet.

And Michigan was? You seem to spin like Bill O'Reilly when he can't answer questions, defending the complete failure of a dishonest campaign. Last I checked, you didn't even care where Ron Paul 2012 spent their money, because you gave it "freely". Now you're acting like Virginia wasn't winnable (defeatist), ignoring the clear facts that delegates were WINNABLE in the PRIMARY. Which is how Ron Paul was awarded 3 delegates, because of the hard work of a SUPPORTER (not the campaign), even though RP lost the popular vote. Don't let the facts stand in your way though.

Ron Paul 2012 could have won MORE delegates in Virginia, by targeting districts and not the whole state. Instead, they had already chosen to help Mitt Romney win the nomination at that point. Michigan was before Virginia. They attacked Rick Santorum in Michigan at the end of February. Wasted at least $100K attacking Rick Santorum in Michigan when RP had absolutely NO CHANCE of winning that state. NONE. ZERO. And yet, you really think Ron Paul's chances of winning Virginia were less than Michigan? When even some Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich supporters were trying to help Ron Paul win Virginia?

And for anyone else who happens to be reading, I am refusing to respond to JJDoyle's comments because he is lying and making stuff up. I worked on the PCC in 2012, he did not.

And yes, Matt Collins did work for Ron Paul 2012, so did Jesse Benton. Maybe they had a special blend of Kool-Aid they required staffers to drink and that's why he calls me saying Ron Paul 2012 agreed to not attack Mitt Romney before going into Michigan, despite Doug Wead saying it and the campaign's own actions screaming it, a lie? I know the truth can be hard to swallow sometimes, and apparently for political campaign workers it's really hard when you are trying to continue some mirage of "greatness" done when it was the exact opposite. Complete failure and dishonesty.


The media. Even Rick Santorum. And Ron Paul supporters DURING the campaign were saying the exact same thing. Doug Wead didn't even have to admit it, for it to be true. It was clear to anybody involved in politics at any level, the campaign had sold supporters out to the Mitt Romney campaign and continuously mislead them and lied to them to get more funds.

Ron Paul 2012 didn't spend a dime in Virginia running even a single positive TV ad to even let the voters know he was serious about winning, yet they spent $100K (at least) attacking Rick Santorum in a state that would have caused a complete bloodbath in the Republican primary had Mitt Romney lost it: Michigan.

We can all thank Ron Paul 2012 and the likes of Jesse Benton (and I guess people like Matt Collins too, since he is either willfully ignorant or outright lying about the facts and events) and the others at the top, for bowing to King Romney. And then wasting another $20 million of supporters' money, not counting time, during the primary.

$20 MILLION that could have been better directed to Senate races, or House races. Instead, we got Rick Santorum Sasquatch attack ads.

Yes, Ron Paul 2012 was scared to attack Mitt Romney. They were effectively blackmailed out of the race, with a "We'll destroy your personal career." Well geez, I wish they had told supporters that information before so many wasted time and money going to conventions for nothing. Well, maybe to be arrested, assaulted, and harassed. I guess that's a good thing, in this police state?

And what email did Ron send that said he was throwing in the towel as you claimed? You made that claim, but like always, failed to back it up when I asked you for details on it. When did he send it? January? February? I have all the emails.

 

[LibertyEagle]

And Michigan was? You seem to spin like Bill O'Reilly when he can't answer questions, defending the complete failure of a dishonest campaign. Last I checked, you didn't even care where Ron Paul 2012 spent their money, because you gave it "freely". Now you're acting like Virginia wasn't winnable (defeatist), ignoring the clear facts that delegates were WINNABLE in the PRIMARY. Which is how Ron Paul was awarded 3 delegates, because of the hard work of a SUPPORTER (not the campaign), even though RP lost the popular vote. Don't let the facts stand in your way though.

Ron Paul 2012 could have won MORE delegates in Virginia, by targeting districts and not the whole state. Instead, they had already chosen to help Mitt Romney win the nomination at that point. Michigan was before Virginia. They attacked Rick Santorum in Michigan at the end of February. Wasted at least $100K attacking Rick Santorum in Michigan when RP had absolutely NO CHANCE of winning that state. NONE. ZERO. And yet, you really think Ron Paul's chances of winning Virginia were less than Michigan? When even some Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich supporters were trying to help Ron Paul win Virginia?

And yes, Matt Collins did work for Ron Paul 2012, and maybe they had a special blend of Kool-Aid they required staffers to drink and that's why he calls Ron Paul 2012 agreeing to not attack Mitt Romney before going into Michigan, despite Doug Wead saying it and the campaign's own actions screaming it, a lie?


The media. Even Rick Santorum. And Ron Paul supporters DURING the campaign were saying the exact same thing. Doug Wead didn't even have to admit it, for it to be true. It was clear to anybody involved in politics at any level, the campaign had sold supporters out to the Mitt Romney campaign and continuously mislead them and lied to them to get more funds.

Ron Paul 2012 didn't spend a dime in Virginia running even a single positive TV ad to even let the voters know he was serious about winning, yet they spent $100K (at least) attacking Rick Santorum in a state that would have caused a complete bloodbath in the Republican primary had Mitt Romney lost it: Michigan.

We can all thank Ron Paul 2012 and the likes of Jesse Benton (and I guess people like Matt Collins too, since he is either willfully ignorant or outright lying about the facts and events) and the others at the top, for bowing to King Romney. And then wasting another $20 million of supporters' money, not counting time, during the primary.

$20 MILLION that could have been better directed to Senate races, or House races. Instead, we got Rick Santorum Sasquatch attack ads.

People donated to Ron Paul. If you wanted to donate to senate or house races, you should have done that. However, you don't control others' donations.

Yes, Ron Paul 2012 was scared to attack Mitt Romney. They were effectively blackmailed out of the race, with a "We'll destroy your personal career."

Ron Paul had already lost by that point. Selfishly, I would have liked to see an attack ad too, but it would have been just that, selfish, if it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Should they have run one earlier? Yeah, maybe, but they were trying to thread a needle in a haystack to give Ron any chance whatsoever of winning and the establishment killed Ron off pretty early in the game. Those are the facts.

Well geez, I wish they had told supporters that information before so many wasted time and money going to conventions for nothing. Well, maybe to be arrested, assaulted, and harassed. I guess that's a good thing, in this police state?

And what email did Ron send that said he was throwing in the towel as you claimed? You made that claim, but like always, failed to back it up when I asked you for details on it. When did he send it? January? February? I have all the emails.

You are hopeless. Yeah, Ron sent out an email throwing in the damn towel. It was talked about here on the forums quite a lot. You weren't here, slick, so if you aren't up on things, google is your friend. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Ron told us many times that it was important to have a good showing at that convention, so that we could show that we weren't a fly in the pan movement. That we were here to stay and there were a lot of us.

Neither Ron Paul or his campaign had the goal of helping Mitt Romney. You want to believe that, so you do. Go for it. No one is going to change your mind, because you want to be pissed. You have done nothing on these forums but try to get people to throw in the towel since you joined. Divide and conquer. It's the same kind of thing I would expect out of the likes of Karl Rove.

 

[jjdoyle]

People donated to Ron Paul. If you wanted to donate to senate or house races, you should have done that. However, you don't control others' donations.

Ron Paul had already lost by that point. Selfishly, I would have liked to see an attack ad too, but it would have been just that, selfish, if it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Should they have run one earlier? Yeah, maybe, but they were trying to thread a needle in a haystack to give Ron any chance whatsoever of winning and the establishment killed Ron off pretty early in the game. Those are the facts.

You are hopeless. Yeah, Ron sent out an email throwing in the damn towel. It was talked about here on the forums quite a lot. You weren't here, slick, so if you aren't up on things, google is your friend. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Ron told us many times that it was important to have a good showing at that convention, so that we could show that we weren't a fly in the pan movement. That we were here to stay and there were a lot of us.

Neither Ron Paul or his campaign had the goal of helping Mitt Romney. You want to believe that, so you do. Go for it. No one is going to change your mind, because you want to be pissed. You have done nothing on these forums but try to get people to throw in the towel since you joined. Divide and conquer.

If I'm hopeless, you are completely clueless. And YOU have repeatedly failed to back up your claims, when asked. I guess you think Rand was stupid for not doing his own work before writing the letter to the editor in the 80s, thinking the professor in the 80s talking about nuclear power plants should have sourced his information, because you clearly don't source your's. BTW, I was here during the campaigns. Both of them.

You are truly a defeatist, because you claim Ron Paul had lost it before Michigan even voted. Which is 100% and completely false, based on the numbers. Had Mitt Romney lost Michigan, as has been explained, the entire race would have been a bloodbath between Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, and Ron Paul. Except one thing. Ron Paul 2012 would have had the funds to use in states like Virginia and the help of other candidates like Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich supporters in that state.

And no, I have only been concerned with the truth since I joined the forums. I'm sick of people like you and Collins acting "holier-than-thou" and ignoring the facts and history of a completely dishonest campaign. Ignoring the facts that Ron Paul supporters gave ALL, and then some by showing up to conventions only to be assaulted, harassed, and arrested. And then have a campaign not respect them.

Again, maybe you didn't comprehend it the first two times I posted it, but we'll try again. Why Mitt Romney needed to lose Michigan:
"Here are the vote totals for candidates that had won the popular votes in states up until the Michigan and Arizona vote on February 28th (not counting Iowa since it ended in basically a tie for Romney and Santorum):
Mitt Romney had won 4 primaries/caucuses (New Hampshire, Florida, Nevada, Maine).
Rick Santorum had won 3 primaries/caucuses (Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota).
Newt Gingrich had won 1 primary/caucus (South Carolina).
Ron Paul 0.

Again, this is not delegate counts, but the popular vote as reported by the media.

It should be noted here, that Ron Paul lost Maine, by 2% points. Ron Paul 2012 never ran a single attack ad against only Romney in the state, and it was Ron's first chance outside of Iowa to really upset the apple cart with the popular vote totals reported by the media. Ron Paul 2012 had already run attack ads against just Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Santorum, but NONE for just Romney.

Then, on February 28th, Mitt Romney won both Arizona and Michigan. Barely getting a victory over Rick Santorum in Michigan, by 3%, thanks in part to Ron Paul 2012 helping attack Rick Santorum with campaign funds running a TV attack ad against him.

With Romney winning both states on February 28th, that brought his total state victories to 6:
Romney - 6 states (New Hampshire, Florida, Nevada, Maine, Arizona, Michigan)
Santorum - 3 states (Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota)
Gingrich - 1 state (South Carolina)
Paul - 0 states

What was after that?
Wyoming's might have swung to Santorum, because he lost it only by 7% to Romney. Wyoming's is a weird one though, spread over a period of time not just one day from what I'm looking at (apparently something like Maine).
Then on March 3rd there was Washington, and Romney won that one with 38% of the vote to Ron Paul's 25% and Rick Santorum's 24%.

So, before Super Tuesday happened, this was is what the state totals were:
Mitt Romney - 8 (New Hampshire, Florida, Nevada, Maine, Arizona, Michigan, Wyoming, and Washington)
Rick Santorum - 3 (Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota)
Newt Gingrich - 1 (South Carolina)
Ron Paul - 0

Then after Super Tuesday, which had 10 states voting, the results were:
Romney - 14 (picked up Alaska, Idaho, Massachusetts, Ohio, Vermont, and Virginia)
Santorum - 6 (picked up North Dakota, Oklahoma, and Tennessee)
Gingrich - 2 (picking up Georgia)
Ron Paul - 0

Why did Romney win the nomination? Because Ron Paul 2012 never ran a single attack ad against only him, in any state, trying to cause a brokered convention. Ron Paul 2012 helped Mitt Romney defeat Rick Santorum in Michigan, which gave Romney momentum, and taking momentum away from Santorum.

Had Romney lost Michigan to Santorum, Super Tuesday would have been an absolute massacre between Romney and Santorum with attack ads, because of how close the race would have still been.
Romney was pretty much guaranteed only a few wins on Super Tuesday, even if he had lost Michigan:
Idaho and Massachusetts

Newt Gingrich would have probably still won Georgia, and been the only state he grabbed that day like normal.

Rick Santorum though? He picked up North Dakota, Oklahoma, and Tennessee. Those were his only three. He could have probably picked up Alaska, which he lost by 4% points, if Romney had lost Michigan.
Santorum probably would have picked up Ohio as well, because he lost that one by 1% point.

The whole thing would have fallen apart and been a complete mess (brokered convention) if Ron Paul 2012 had not helped Mitt Romney win Michigan. OR, at the very least, tried to help Rick Santorum beat Mitt Romney in states like Ohio and Alaska on Super Tuesday with some attack ads.

Oh, and while Romney was having to spend money on Super Tuesday trying to destroy Rick Santorum in states, that would have given Ron Paul 2012 a chance to try and actually win Virginia. Causing more of a headache for Mitt Romney, especially if Newt and Santorum helped in any significant fashion.

Instead, the campaign helped Mitt Romney by never attacking only him in any state, like they did Perry, Newt, or Santorum. They agreed to not attack Mitt Romney, because they never did. They never released a single Mitt Romney only attack ad, and repeatedly used events to try and defend him...like they did with their Etch-A-Sketch ad making fun of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich instead."

Apparently you didn't read that the first few times it was posted, because the truth can be hard to swallow. And like you can't provide links to back up anything you claim, it's no surprise you repeatedly defend a lying campaign, and fail at it miserably. The only people here I have seen try to get rid of supporters and liberty minded people, are people like you and Matt Collins.

I'm here for the liberty supporters, and some of the candidates. To get ideas, share ideas. Help. And I'm not going to sit by though, and let people try to rewrite history and facts about a completely dishonest campaign that lied to liberty supporters for months, and attack those very supporters calling them "defeatist".

The only ones that are defeatist, are the ones that make excuses for Ron Paul 2012 like yourself and Matt Collins. "They couldn't win it. They had already lost it. They didn't have a chance. The media wouldn't let them. King Romney wouldn't let them." Defeatists.

Calling liberty supporters that took over state conventions and donated the 2nd most amount of money behind only King Romney, defeatist, IS COMPLETELY STUPID. Ron Paul supporters and liberty supporters are not defeatists, but they probably are realists.

And clearly you weren't reading the full thread (no surprise) about the $20 million. Bastiat provided the rough math for electing Senators and Congressmen, and said liberty people should be doing it more. I said the liberty minded people I know, aren't your Mitt Romney walking bank type supporters. The RP supporters I know saved up, delayed car repairs, ate Ramen, took on extra jobs, and asked family/friends to donate to a campaign instead of giving them gifts.

Then those supporters then saw a campaign completely lie and betray their trust and use those campaigns donations to help Mitt Romney win the nomination. And SOME wonder why people might not be throwing cash around to politicians as quickly anymore? Ron Paul 2012 wasted about $20 million from January 2012 until September 2012. After, according to defeatists attitudes like you and Matt Collins, they had already lost and had no chance of winning. Again, another reason Ron Paul 2012 should have closed up shop, instead of continuing to lie to supporters and help Mitt Romney win the nomination without any waves at the RNC.

And if we can't learn from the mistakes of Ron Paul 2012, like having corrupt, dishonest, campaign workers involved at multiple levels, that is going to be a problem. Every Rand supporter should watch the following video, and take down the names and make sure that Rand has NONE of those people on staff, at the very least:



Can you dispute what she said with facts and history? I can't. So, again, slick (I guess the truth is slick sliding through your fingers, is that why you called me slick?), don't let the facts get in the way of your lies and delusional history.

Ron Paul supporters and the liberty minded people I know, are not defeatists. They went above and beyond, when called upon by a lying campaign.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Apparently you didn't read that the first few times it was posted, because the truth can be hard to swallow. And like you can't provide links to back up anything you claim, it's no surprise you repeatedly defend a lying campaign, and fail at it miserably.

It was posted here numerous times. Your not wanting to get off your ass to google it, does not require me to do it for you.

The only people here I have seen try to get rid of supporters and liberty minded people, are people like you and Matt Collins.

Good thing I know you aren't representative of the liberty movement, because if you were, I'd head the opposite direction.

I'm here for the liberty supporters, and some of the candidates. To get ideas, share ideas. Help. And I'm not going to sit by though, and let people try to rewrite history and facts about a completely dishonest campaign that lied to liberty supporters for months, and attack those very supporters calling them "defeatist".

You are here to help? LOLOL. Your goal is obvious and it isn't to help.

The only ones that are defeatist, are the ones that make excuses for Ron Paul 2012 like yourself and Matt Collins. "They couldn't win it. They had already lost it. They didn't have a chance. The media wouldn't let them. King Romney wouldn't let them." Defeatists.

Actually, you are a quitter and you want to blame everyone for your behavior. Ron Paul didn't have a chance in hell of winning, but we tried anyway and moved the ball forward quite a bit. You could pick the ball up and continue to move it forward, but instead you want to whine over spilled milk and get others to quit like you have.

Can you dispute what she said with facts and history? I can't. So, again, slick (I guess the truth is slick sliding through your fingers, is that why you called me slick?), don't let the facts get in the way of your lies and delusional history.

Actually, slick, last time I checked, its innocent until proven guilty. Where is her proof that Ron Paul stole money, or do you not care? You seem willing and eager even to believe it, since you keep posting this video. I lost a lot of respect for her when she did that hack job interview with Kokesh. If you actually believe that Ron is a thief, why are you here? Unless it is to destroy.

 

[jjdoyle]

Are you too lazy to google for it. It was posted here multiple times.

Good thing I know you aren't representative of the liberty movement, because if you were, I'd head the opposite direction.

You are here to help? LOLOL. Your goal is obvious and it isn't to help.

Actually, you are a quitter and you want to blame everyone for your behavior. Ron Paul didn't have a chance in hell of winning, but we tried anyway and moved the ball forward quite a bit. You could pick the ball up and continue to move it forward, but instead you want to whine over spilled milk and get others to quit like you have.

I was disappointed in Penny Langford-Freeman in that interview. But, then again, Ron also hired Dondero. Since you have posted that video numerous times, you must believe like she apparently does that Ron Paul is skimming money from his supporters. And if you do, one wonders why you are here unless it is to destroy.

Are you too lazy to back up another one of your, so far, false claims? Where is the email? When was it? January 2012? After Iowa? February, before Michigan. No, neither of those, and you know it (well, maybe not, keep forgetting your complete ignorance on campaign funds, wouldn't be surprised you making this up out of thin air).

You have no clue what candidates I have been helping, and you are willfully clueless on other issues. (My post history might give you a clue, to at least one candidate.) And no, I'm not blaming "everyone of your (my) behavior", another lie from a liar no doubt. I'm blaming Ron Paul 2012 for their own actions. For lying to supporters for months, and destroying forward momentum.

Oh, since you are apparently lying about Ron Paul sending that email and just so you know, the only thing that comes up so far when searching for Ron Paul throwing in the towel, is actually posts about Jesse Benton saying something. Not Ron Paul. And guess what, that was in May 2012. Four months after they had already agreed to help Mitt Romney win Michigan, and the nomination. So, let's just say your claim is true, and Ron was throwing in the towel in May 2012, well Ron Paul 2012 had already helped Mitt Romney win the nomination at that point. If it wasn't before Michigan voted, then it doesn't matter. Again, there is no email turning up at that time from Ron, and only stuff on Jesse Benton in the Google results.

And for that video, not only does she touch on some inside Ron Paul 2012's campaign staff, but I believe she also mentions why she wouldn't help in '07, because they weren't serious about actually winning. And she saw that continue in Ron Paul 2012. If you run, you run to win. Not lie to supporters to build your email/donor list to sell to political campaigns and organizations in the future.

Definitely not make defeatist statements like, "The media wouldn't allow us." The same media Ron Paul 2012 turned down interview requests on. Because, it is defeatist attitudes like your's and Matt Collins, trying to blame the media, the weather, Mitt Romney, and even SUPPORTERS, that are the real problem.

But, here is Jesse Benton in May 2012:


Notice how he mentions they had already been in contact with Mitt Romney's campaign and they were working together on platform issues. LOL. Every, single, turn. Working with Mitt Romney's campaign.

 

[goRPaul]

Well I was unaware that the Romney campaign so bluntly threatened to destroy Ron Paul's name and reputation. That part of the campaign makes more sense to me now. But I had already seen the writing on the walls- watching them steal the straw poll in Iowa and the terrible media blackout afterwards was evidence enough that it wasn't going to be his year.

Efforts like that, knowing that they can bury someone, is really discouraging. That's what fosters the defeatist attitude. We all have it, might as well get used to it.

 

[speciallyblend]

Too bad Colorado voters hate the 2nd Amendment though, isn't it?

RPF site is havng majrissues this is rpf doing this not IE! below del with thetypos it s rpf

excuse me?are you deaf dumb or blind? the politians did thatnot thevoters. sory e is oig e typo adskippn lttrs nnot typing

ecleedd 2 of the bastards. foo omak geel stateen ooell eem ie rp dnt agree. this I ie doin the tyo.

wow I sues igess you havso mayngs on rpf it affcts keyboard oo well


RPF MODS yo have areal issue hrewth ie and our site

 

[speciallyblend]

Too bad Colorado voters hate the 2nd Amendment though, isn't it?

to bad you are so full of collectivist BS. you know full well 100%!! it was not voters but politicians who did that and the voters removed 2 and one resigned. wow LE never thought you would say that kinda bs!! what we learned in Colorado is we do not need the gop/dnc or the federal gov or rand or le BS!!!!

we can nullify rand/gop/dnc and thefederal gov we are doing it.

rpf yu have majho issues with your sie under ie cannot even type. tis is rpf not I ince it doest hppenbut rpf

all I hear from rand fluffers is excuses for rands bs when we call rand out for rands bs.

 

[CaptUSA]

jjdoyle, since you are disregarding the point of my posts to you, I don't know how else to address you.

You want to keep addressing the campaign that you didn't like instead of addressing what you do like and what your plans are. Ok, so the campaign didn't perform to your liking??? So what? Instead of continuing to drive this wedge, wouldn't it be more constructive to draw people positively toward your path?

For people who profess to love liberty, we certainly spend too much time trying to denigrate the actions of others. And when those actions do not conform to ours, we turn negative. It's sad. But the true enemies of liberty count on it. Instead of each of us growing our own flank in the movement, the flanks fire upon each other because they think the "other" flank isn't doing right. Liberty knows that if we allow each to do, the best possible result will happen.

If you answer this post by talking about the campaign again, you are missing the entire point.

 

[Badger Paul]

"If more in the liberty movement would take every political training course they could so that they would be able to understand how to be more effective, and then if they would choose their battles more wisely, we would start to see an even greater change across the country for the cause of liberty, guaranteed."

Sounds to me like somebody needs more money. Did the claque already spend the millions it stashed from 2012 already?

You remind me of an Amway salesperson.

 

[Cap]

Too many people in the liberty movement have a defeatist mentality which is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And not only that, they don't wear pinky rings.