Tom Woods: My Memories of Jesse Benton

[Matt Collins]

McConnell is arguably the single most powerful elected Republican in America now, and will certainly be if the GOP takes the senate. What career move could Benton have made that would have been better than this?

The establishment wants to have the untapped numbers of the liberty movement because they know they are a swing vote. Benton could've gone many other places. Why did he goto Mitch? My guess, it would have something to do with Rand and maybe even 2016. I could be wrong, but it seems to be a rational logical explanation that fits the facts.

 

[erowe1]

The establishment wants to have the untapped numbers of the liberty movement because they know they are a swing vote. Benton could've gone many other places. Why did he goto Mitch? My guess, it would have something to do with Rand and maybe even 2016. I could be wrong, but it seems to be a rational logical explanation that fits the facts.

Who could he have worked for that would be better career-wise than McConnell?

And, from the establishment's point of view, how does hiring Benton get them the support of the untapped numbers of the liberty movement?

 

[Matt Collins]

http://www.southernavenger.com/

Where on his site does it say that Tom was offered the book before Jack was?

 

[DylanWaco]

The establishment wants to have the untapped numbers of the liberty movement because they know they are a swing vote. Benton could've gone many other places. Why did he goto Mitch? My guess, it would have something to do with Rand and maybe even 2016. I could be wrong, but it seems to be a rational logical explanation that fits the facts.

You do know that is possible that Benton went over to Mitch to advance his career/make that establishment paper AND further set up the connections for a Rand 2016 bid? It's hardly an either/or

 

[Matt Collins]

I don't oppose strategic coalitions.

I do oppose shunting aside/pushing to the margins the issue I care the most about and the issue that I think is most connected to everything else.

I believe Rand has done this in a variety of ways.

You can't talk about all the issues all of the time.

 

[Matt Collins]

You do know that is possible that Benton went over to Mitch to advance his career/make that establishment paper AND further set up the connections for a Rand 2016 bid? It's hardly an either/or

Very valid statement. But realize that Benton didn't need to go to McConnell to enrich his career.

 

[DylanWaco]

Where on his site does it say that Tom was offered the book before Jack was?

You asked for a link to the source. I gave you the link to my source on the matter Jack Hunter. This has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum before and is hardly controversial, which is why I see no problem "revealing" it. Jack himself told me at the time, though I don't tape my private phone calls for the purpose of future interweb debates. I don't exactly think it's a big secret that Jack or Tom were holding onto since I heard it parroted back to me by other mutual friends in the weeks after Jack got the gig.

If you doubt that I know Jack - who I consider a friend even though we disagree on many things - there is a pretty extensive public record available that I could point to. I just don't see why it would be necessary given the subject at hand.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

I doubt that. Benton doesn't have influence over Ron Paul's supporters.

Agreed. If anything, Benton's pathetic obvious sell-out has united the grassroots around radicalism. Only the dopes and lackeys could possibly support the blunderous official campaign at this point

 

[liberty2897]

You can't talk about all the issues all of the time.

Otherwise, your name might be Ron Paul and you might be Rock Star hero to freedom lovers everywhere around the globe.... and you might not get elected.

 

[DylanWaco]

You can't talk about all the issues all of the time.

This is true.

But when he talks about the big issues I care about he rarely does so in a way that inspires confidence. Nor does he always vote in a way that inspires confidence (I know, I know, insert "he made sure it would not lead to further act of war!" or "CENTRAL BANK" talking point here). Nor do I agree with the way he crafts his foreign aid position both on tv, on the Senate floor, in his amendments to bills, or in his book. And then we have folks like you who insists he's not a liar, which means he believes in Mitt Romney has a "mature foreign policy."

The fact is that when Rand talks about the big one, the elephant in the room that effects everything else, the issue that really got this whole ball rolling, he isn't really in my universe. And I'm hardly the only person in the liberty movement that feels this way. And that is an issue of note that goes far behind nitpicking or demanding perfection (hell Ron wasn't perfect - I still think he was wrong to vote in favor of the Afghan War).

 

[parocks]

I certainly agree. The way that Adam Kokesh was maligned and sullied is unbelievable, all the while Benton was doing what he did. I never liked Jesse Benton--it wasn't because of any one thing, it was a gut instinct from day one. All the hard work Dr. Paul and the grassroots had put forth then to be taken down by Benton truly makes me sick.

No, Kokesh is still awful.

Tom Woods saying what he just was saying, well, it makes it clear that Tom Woods is no Jesse Benton fan.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

I find it very curious that the motivations of people with low post counts, Adam Kokesh (who I am totally indifferent to), Alex Jones listeners, et are to be questioned at every turn, but someone who describes himself as a "budding politico" must be viewed as a paragon of virtue, with messianic qualities that are not to be questioned by mere plebes.

We're not members of the power elite, and kissing our asses won't secure a potential position of power in the future. Also, they feel that our operations jeopardize the power they so desperately want to wield on others so we're shunned.

 

[liberty2897]

No, Kokesh is still awful.

Yes, because he did such outlandish things such as organize Veterans for Ron Paul on multiple occasions.... oh and I think he might have smoked pot and bad-mouthed Benton once or twice..

 

[parocks]

They will. But we need to start questioning who's side Benton is on. I've really avoided Benton bashing, but he really did sell a lot of our efforts short when it mattered most during the stretch. We all made this the fight of our lives, only to have the campaign return the favor with a defeatist attitude.

I guess we have a lot of things to reassess in time for Rand Paul 2016.

They made the decision in February, before the Michigan primary not to attack Romney. They wanted to, but Romney scared them.

Whether Doug Wead was making that up or not, I don't know, but if you're not going to air attacks on Romney because of counter-attacks on you, well, at that point, February 2012, you aren't in it to win it. Preserving Ron Paul's name, and Rand Paul's future, was the name of the game from Feb 2012 on.

All the delegate stuff, after Feb 2012, that was stuff that we wanted to do, and they didn't put a stop to it. But bailing out of fear in February, that was it, we were done. They might've wanted the omelet but they didn't want to risk breaking any eggs to get it. Basically, a big ol circle jerk for 6 months. Which is not to say that doing all that didn't have value. Ashley and Mark wouldn't be RNC, we wouldn't have so many state committee, so there were the tangential benefits from the pursuit of the goal. Might've have been nice for those who didn't really care that much about those tangential benefits to know that they through in the towel in Feb.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Agreed. If anything, Benton's pathetic obvious sell-out has united the grassroots around radicalism. Only the dopes and lackeys could possibly support the blunderous official campaign at this point

You're still blaming Benton for Ron Paul not winning and that is ridiculous. What's more, there were more people in the campaign than just Benton.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

You're still blaming Benton for Ron Paul not winning and that is ridiculous. What's more, there were more people in the campaign than just Benton.

I'm not blaming Benton for anything other than being a incompetent, sell-out boob whose blunderous actions have been a tremendous detriment to liberty. Paul's campaign was snakebitten due to the whole system being completely rigged. Running off a brilliant mind because you are too concerned with your own petty squabbles was what alerted me to Benton being such a scumbag. The PaulFest disgrace and going to work with McConnell just prove what people like Kokesh have been saying for a long time now. I am very pleased that this development is a victory for the radicals and makes the milquetoast Republican establishment appeasers with their asskissing of the official campaign look like fools.

 

[DylanWaco]

They threw in the towel on Ron the night of the SC debate. It is arguable how interested or serious some of the staff were in getting him elected all along. It's very probable that many of them believed he couldn't be nominated in the GOP. I know I felt that way and supported him anyhow for a variety of reasons.

 

[LibertyEagle]

They made the decision in February, before the Michigan primary not to attack Romney. They wanted to, but Romney scared them.

Whether Doug Wead was making that up or not, I don't know, but if you're not going to air attacks on Romney because of counter-attacks on you, well, at that point, February 2012, you aren't in it to win it.

Did you just skip over the part when Doug said that Ron had already lost at that point?

Preserving Ron Paul's name, and Rand Paul's future, was the name of the game from Feb 2012 on.

I think a better way to say it might be to do what they believed would further the liberty movement the greatest, given Dr. Paul had already lost at that point.

All the delegate stuff, after Feb 2012, that was stuff that we wanted to do, and they didn't put a stop to it.

What are you talking about? This is what they went around the country training us to do for the last several years.

But bailing out of fear in February, that was it, we were done. They might've wanted the omelet but they didn't want to risk breaking any eggs to get it.

Barring a miracle, Ron Paul stood no chance at that point. You talk about what Wead said in other regards, but you skip over that part.

Basically, a big ol circle jerk for 6 months. Which is not to say that doing all that didn't have value. Ashley and Mark wouldn't be RNC, we wouldn't have so many state committee, so there were the tangential benefits from the pursuit of the goal. Might've have been nice for those who didn't really care that much about those tangential benefits to know that they through in the towel in Feb.

Yeah, I wish they would have told us too. Although, it would have been out in the media if they had. Plus, they wanted a good delegate showing in Tampa to show our strength, and maybe they were worried that people would completely give up.

 

[parocks]

Yes, because he did such outlandish things such as organize Veterans for Ron Paul on multiple occasions.... oh and I think he might have smoked pot and bad-mouthed Benton once or twice..

Everything he did was pretty much silly and fringe. He attacked the campaign. Tom Woods is doing something similar, but he waited until the campaign is over. Before, it hurt the campaign, now it's useful information.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm not blaming Benton for anything other than being a incompetent, sell-out boob whose blunderous actions have been a tremendous detriment to liberty. Paul's campaign was snakebitten due to the whole system being completely rigged. Running off a brilliant mind because you are too concerned with your own petty squabbles was what alerted me to Benton being such a scumbag. The PaulFest disgrace and going to work with McConnell just prove what people like Kokesh have been saying for a long time now. I am very pleased that this development is a victory for the radicals and makes the milquetoast Republican establishment appeasers with their asskissing of the official campaign look like fools.

It seems that you are trying to further split the movement and I wonder why that is.

Tell me, do you consider the RP delegates "milquetoast Republican establishment appeasers" too? You know, the ones who actually took action and did something constructive. How about people like Marianne Stebbins who organized the supporters in Minnesota to pwn the leadership slots in the GOP and win all the delegate positions, with exception of the one they gave to Bachmann? And what about the RP supporters in Iowa who have busted their butts for the last 4 years to get in position and win over people? They also now pwn the GOP leadership positions. What about the supporters in Maine who went through holy crap and have not stopped yet? Instead of giving up, they have decided to win positions in their own state.

Are these people "fools" in your book, SARGE?