To Vote or Not to Vote

People aren't, unsurprisingly, thinking this through. If you want cheaper labor, you don't go for latin American gangsters. Obviously.

There are only two reasons for importing those. One, you're a eugenicist and you want somebody in the ghettos who can actually kill who they're shooting at. The other is to scare people. As in, scare them bad enough that they forget that a decade ago, they were wondering if it was really a good thing to give Netanyahu unlimited funds for genocide. That was due to us and Ron Paul.

Can't give voters the luxury of thinking that one through.
 
This is The Election to End All Elections. They're destroying the DNC. They're practically advertising that they're going to obviously steal it again. They're doing everything they can think of to make us sick of elections.

Donald Trump is anything but He Who Must Not Be Named.

It's a significant pattern.
 
I do have a preference for which poison is less deadly [...]

The "lesser evil" is "still evil" ... but by the same token, it is also "still lesser" - and that is not nothing (especially when there are more rather than fewer degrees of separation between the lesser evil and the greater).

Whether and to what degree an evil is lesser than another is something over which there may be reasonable disagreements.

Rejecting a "lesser evil" because it is "evil" is not irrational - but neither is preferring a "lesser evil" because it is "lesser".

Welcome to the limits of reason - and to what some call "the human condition".
 
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Elon Musk: "The only thing holding California back from extreme socialism and suffocating government policies is that people can leave California and still remain in America. Once the whole country is controlled by one party, there will be no escape."

Ron Paul: "... *something* *something* wall *something* keep us in *something* *something* ..."
 
IMO, evil is enabled, regardless. Whether you choose to cast a lot or not. I'm not browbeating ANYONE. But I do wish the opposite would stop. If I cast a lot, it doesn't enable evil any more than you NOT casting one. So why pretend you have some moral high ground?

//

Neither voting nor not voting is necessary in order to "do something".

And merely voting - or merely not voting - is hardly doing anything.

I don't think that casting a lot is any worse than abstaining.

It's not - and abstaining is not any worse than casting a lot.

Neither merely voting nor merely not voting is of any real importance, significance, or consequence.

But the pro-voting cultists have to fetishize voting, and the anti-voting cultists have to fetishize not voting.

Both groups need heretics and infidels to decry and castigate, so they can feel the rush of zealous self-righteousness.
 
Elon Musk: "The only thing holding California back from extreme socialism and suffocating government policies is that people can leave California and still remain in America. Once the whole country is controlled by one party, there will be no escape."

Ron Paul: "... *something* *something* wall *something* keep us in *something* *something* ..."

Well, the fact is, there is no wall on either the northern or southern border.

And there's not going to be one any time soon.

There's a mind fuck for ya...build a wall that will keep you in because the country has turned communist because of invaders that the wall could have kept out.
 
The "lesser evil" is "still evil" ... but by the same token, it is also "still lesser" - and that is not nothing (especially when there are more rather than fewer degrees of separation between the lesser evil and the greater).

Whether and to what degree an evil is lesser than another is something over which there may be reasonable disagreements.

Rejecting a "lesser evil" because it is "evil" is not irrational - but neither is preferring a "lesser evil" because it is "lesser".

Welcome to the limits of reason - and to what some call "the human condition".

An analogy in another thread was talking about cars... Do you want an old beater with 300,000 miles on it, or a used unimpressive import with 40,000? Nope - I'm holding out for a brand new Maserati or at least a Porsche.

Everything is a matter of degree. And as you point out, very subjective. There's no escaping evil - is there a lesser evil that you can tolerate??? Or are they so close that it doesn't matter?? Comes down to a personal preference.
 
I'm not an accelerationist. I have kids and grandkids.

My children are the reason I am an accelerationist.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of going to my grave knowing I did what was required to cement a communist dictatorship here. Because the slow boil is a requirement. You need to convince everyone that this is always the way things have been.

Kinda like how we're entering the ninth presidential election I've been an adult for, and everyone is 100% acclimated to the idea that we have to vote because if we don't then something even worse is going to happen.

I'm taking a stand. I'm continuing to stand on the idea that unless you give me someone to vote for, then I will not vote. I refuse to vote against. It might be a stand of one but I'm taking it, dammit. Either my one-man stand will result in one less vote and therefore won't make a difference...
...or my one-man stand isn't a stand of one, and Trump stands a real chance of losing.

If he loses, then the country's Trump supporters can either
1) take note that whatever he was doing isn't enough, try to figure out what it is that wasn't worth voting for, and try to find someone who meets the criteria that will win people like me, or
2) continue to ignore the principle voters, play the ooga booga game for the rest of time, and continue to lose.
We all know they'll choose option 2. When that happens, they'll eventually get into a position of not being food secure. At that point the principle voters (we all tend to be rather more self-sufficient as I see it) will explain to them as we're helping them work out why their garden isn't working that their support of an obvious narcissist pantomime candidate is what got us there.

I'm very much raising my children - and helping to raise children of other like-minded people - to have that conversation when it happens. But I'd rather be there to participate. I'd rather die knowing we have come around a bend, rather than knowing we're still far off from even seeing it.

And just to be clear, it's entirely possible I'll vote again. If RFK had been allowed to participate I totally would have helped vote him in. Yeah, he has issues. But I remember the signs from 2008 that said "Dr Paul Cured My Apathy". RFK came pretty close to doing that, too. You don't just get my participation in a process I fundamentally don't agree with - you have to earn it. RFK did the best job of anyone since 2012.

And then that takes us back to the black pill. Because as he pointed out, he wasn't allowed to participate. And that should remind everyone that Harris is totally going to cheat. I mean FFS anyone who watched any of the 'debate' last night should understand exactly how stacked this deck is. It's less that I'm an accelerationist... and more that the DNC is accelerationist.
So there's still the ultimate point: I can either be one of those sad deluded chumps who still think peaceful political resistance is even possible, or I can look at the facts on the ground and say "all right, fuck it, let's go".
 
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Well, the fact is, there is no wall on either the northern or southern border.

And there's not going to be one any time soon.

There's a mind $#@! for ya...build a wall that will keep you in because the country has turned communist because of invaders that the wall could have kept out.

Are you sure about that?

https://www.axios.com/2023/12/12/border-patrol-ai-us-mexico-wall-surveillance-virtual

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The U.S. government is building a "virtual wall" at the southern border by erecting hundreds of high-tech surveillance towers — some of which use artificial intelligence — to detect people in an effort to reduce drug smuggling and sky-high unauthorized migration.

Why it matters: A record-high number of people have entered the U.S. through the southern border this year, resulting in multiple crises and exacerbating U.S. Customs and Border protection staffing shortages. But the new surveillance technology is giving rise to concerns over civil liberties, digital watchdogs say.

Details: Although there have been surveillance towers at the border for several years, the new autonomous towers can better detect abnormal activity.

The U.S. has installed about 300 different types of surveillance towers from the California coast to the tip of Texas, according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit that monitors civil liberties in the digital world.
Using public records, satellite imagery, road trips, and virtual reality, the nonprofit mapped the presence of surveillance towers along the border in remote and highly populated areas.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials have praised the autonomous technology as a great asset that helps agents do their jobs, and it has bipartisan support.
CBP has said more are coming. The agency has not responded to repeated requests for comment.
How they work: Autonomous surveillance towers contain 360-degree pan radars and sensors that can scan for miles.

The towers are outfitted with AI software that distinguishes people from desert animals. Towers can be programmed to block off sections of surveillance areas, like homes on private ranches, so they don't monitor those regions.
Images are fed back to Border Patrol personnel who can deploy agents to the area where activity was detected.
The towers are solar-powered and can be erected in a matter of hours without drilling holes or requiring concrete, which means they can also be moved with ease.
Between the lines: The influx of new technology comes six years after the U.S. Government Accountability Office faulted the Border Patrol's surveillance technologies for needing improved data quality and effectiveness.

In 2011, then-Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano pulled the plug on President George W. Bush's $1 billion initiative to build a 700-mile "virtual border fence" because of problems with the technology and how it was deployed.
Zoom in: Defense contractors such as Anduril Industries and Elbit Systems of America, a subsidiary of Israeli-based Elbit Systems, are among those who have recently built new towers on the border.

They sit on public, private and tribal land. Many are located where there are few border agents.
Rancher Albert Miller walks by a Autonomous Surveillance Towers, the new CBP camera tower made by Anduril near his property in Valentine, Texas, on January 17, 2022.
Rancher Albert Miller walks by an autonomous surveillance tower near his property in Valentine, Texas, on January 17, 2022. Photo: Salwan Georges/The Washington Post via Getty Images
What they're saying: "This is a perfect solution in terms of a way to protect the border. They are better than a wall or just having officers patrolling on horseback," Jorge Guajardo, a partner at Dentons Global Advisors, tells Axios.

"I think this is a solution that is very beneficial to the United States and also one that Mexico can work with and be agreeable to."
Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador has not commented on the towers. Last year, he signed a deal with the White House to jointly invest in border technology.
Yes, but: It's unclear if the surveillance towers close to the border are also monitoring people in Mexico, Dave Maass, Electronic Frontier Foundation's director of investigations, tells Axios.

It's also unknown if towers near cities are watching everyday citizens, he says.
"What are these towers for? How often are they just looking at people who live there or go hiking out there?"
What to watch: The U.S. will continue to build more towers along the border, according to CBP.

Ongoing negotiations over potential border security measures could have an impact on funding for surveillance technology.

Now you may ask "If there's already a virtual wall, why isn't it working?" Good question! Israel has a virtual and physical wall that magically quit working on October 7 even though Israel had Hamas' plans a year in advance and was told weeks in advance by U.S.,, Israeli and Egyptian intelligence that an attack was imminent.
 
My children are the reason I am an accelerationist.

I guess I'm hoping for the white pill. Not electorally, obviously. But the corporate press is dying. The machine is becoming more and more obvious. Guns sales keep increasing. Podcasts will long-form policy discussions are increasing in popularity. People are becoming more vocal at the local level. A new coalition is building in opposition to the State (including RFK, Tulsi, Massie, and Paul). The Supreme Court is deeming a bunch of the regulatory state unconstitutional...

Seems like there's optimism on the horizon if we can make it there before they shut down opposition voices (again), before they outpace the Court with new unconstitutional regulations, before they flip the demographics entirely from producers to consumers, or before they stack the SCOTUS.
 
Seems like there's optimism on the horizon if we can make it there before they shut down opposition voices (again), before they outpace the Court with new unconstitutional regulations, before they flip the demographics entirely from producers to consumers, or before they stack the SCOTUS.

Yeah, there's optimism.
If everyone had an understanding that we're not trying to go back to "the way things were" and instead trying to implement what was supposed to be, there's lots of hope.
I see more and more evidence that people are taking that position.
Of course all of that evidence comes from homeschool co-ops... and the problem with that is, I understand numbers better than most, and that they represent 3-4% of parents of school age children.
 
I guess I'm hoping for the white pill. Not electorally, obviously. But the corporate press is dying. The machine is becoming more and more obvious. Guns sales keep increasing. Podcasts will long-form policy discussions are increasing in popularity. People are becoming more vocal at the local level. A new coalition is building in opposition to the State (including RFK, Tulsi, Massie, and Paul). The Supreme Court is deeming a bunch of the regulatory state unconstitutional...

Seems like there's optimism on the horizon if we can make it there before they shut down opposition voices (again), before they outpace the Court with new unconstitutional regulations, before they flip the demographics entirely from producers to consumers, or before they stack the SCOTUS.

"It is possible we will lose. It is impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice
 
I'll tell all ya'll the same thing I told Elon Musk.

Let's buy four more years.

Four more years to try and organize some effective resistance.

Most likely a fool's errand but I sure as hell don't see any better suggestions out there.

My suggestion is to just keep spreading division and hate. At some point somebody's gonna get pissed off enough to secede.

If Trump does win by some miracle past the cheating, he probably will be assassinated though. Maybe that would be enough to get somebody to something.
 
I guess I'm hoping for the white pill. Not electorally, obviously. But the corporate press is dying. The machine is becoming more and more obvious. Guns sales keep increasing. Podcasts will long-form policy discussions are increasing in popularity. People are becoming more vocal at the local level. A new coalition is building in opposition to the State (including RFK, Tulsi, Massie, and Paul). The Supreme Court is deeming a bunch of the regulatory state unconstitutional...

Seems like there's optimism on the horizon if we can make it there before they shut down opposition voices (again), before they outpace the Court with new unconstitutional regulations, before they flip the demographics entirely from producers to consumers, or before they stack the SCOTUS.

Well, this is gonna either 1 of 2 ways. It's either gonna get better (fat chance..) or it's gonna get worse. And the worse it gets, the more likely this country falls apart, which is possibly the best outcome we can expect.

So, either way, it's gonna get better. Eventually :cool:
 
Well, this is gonna either 1 of 2 ways. It's either gonna get better (fat chance..) or it's gonna get worse. And the worse it gets, the more likely this country falls apart, which is possibly the best outcome we can expect.

So, either way, it's gonna get better. Eventually :cool:

Agree.

I'm just hoping that it doesn't involve another full-blown war. Because at that point, many innocents die, 'Merika stands together and unites, as we suffer more prolonged ramifications rather than a fresh start.

I know it's not politically correct [because Kamala!] but I see Trump doing another historical repeat just like Bush W the "peace candidate". He's too wrapped up and knee-deep in Israel [and China and Iran] and Water-Front Property. Which will line his/elites pockets while emptying mine.
 
Ep. 356 Crossover: Adam Haman on How Should Libertarians Think About Voting?
The Bob Murphy Show: Episode 256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsjtB7O00QE
{Robert Murphy | 31 October 2024}

Adam Haman returns for another crossover, this time discussing Bob’s decision to write in “Jesus of Nazareth” for the presidential election.

Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:

 
It would have been "Not To Vote" but now that I see my man Vermin Supreme has tossed his hat, er boot, into the race, well, I WANT A PONY DAMNIT!
 
Well, this is gonna either 1 of 2 ways. It's either gonna get better (fat chance..) or it's gonna get worse. And the worse it gets, the more likely this country falls apart, which is possibly the best outcome we can expect.

So, either way, it's gonna get better. Eventually :cool:


Once the Left's rhetoric of equality actually materializes, a true unification of the people will ensue.
Equality will be realized once everyone has little to nothing.
But, then you have to deal with the mental illness which is the result of all those years of indoctrination.
Even though equality and nothingness will unite, the peon's will never be truly united they will still be tribal because some are simply not capable.
 
My view on it:

Everyone is someone's lesser evil.


The lesser of two evils argument was effective in 2008 & 2012 for me, personally, because there was actually a better candidate. I didn't mind "throwing away my vote" because there was one person in the running who truly deserved it. In this case, there isn't. My calculations have been adapted for the situation:

If I vote for Trump and things get worse, then I haven't really lost anything. Meaning: Things were going to get worse regardless, if Kamala wins.

Is that kind of lame? Yes. But it's logical if you think that Trump might be even the least bit better on certain issues.
 
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