To reach blacks, libertarians must begin to understand the African-American experience

[Vanguard101]

http://rare.us/story/to-reach-blacks-libertarians-must-begin-to-understand-the-african-american-experience/

Very good read. Was really long so I didn't copy and paste

 

[nayjevin]

Any non-black person who understands the African-American experience to some degree has a great chance of being a libertarian.

 

[nayjevin]

Libertarians tend to think of freedom as either a means to an end of maximum utility—e.g., free markets produce the most wealth—or, in a more philosophical sense, in opposition to arbitrary authority—e.g., “Who are you to tell me what to do?”

Errors in libertarian thinking include those two angles taken to extremes. I don't think it's fair to say that libertarians tend to think in these absolutes exclusively, it's a simplified view of complex thinking.

Utilitarianism is easily debunked, and has been by libertarian thinkers.

'Who are you to tell me what to do.' conjures immature rebellion, whereas opposition to arbitrary authority is not necessarily.

Also among those who too often allow utility and misplaced perception of authority to cloud thinking - authoritarians and mass murderers.

Who is the citizenry to tell me what to do? It's for the greater good.

Take, for example, the common libertarian/conservative trope: “We believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.” Most people, outside of the few and most ardent socialists, should believe that is a fair statement. But to say such a thing as a general defense of the status quo assumes that the current American system offers roughly equal opportunity just because Jim Crow is dead.Yet, that cannot possibly be true.

I agree with this assessment - it is no defense of the status quo. But we wouldn't hear a soundly reasoned argument from a seasoned Libertarian thinker that does so. We more often would hear such an intellectual abomination from the lapdog 'experts' of crony-capitalists. The ones who like to call themselves Libertarians, but in truth are more dog-eat dog survival of the fittest, anything for an edge, might makes right vultures.

Think of the phrase “Don’t go there, it’s a bad neighborhood.” Now, sometimes that neighborhood is just a little run down, doesn’t have the best houses, doesn’t have the best shopping nearby, or feeds a mediocre school. But, more often, that neighborhood is very poor, lacks decent public infrastructure, suffers from high unemployment, has the worst schools, and is prone to gang or other violence.

And, in many cities—in both North and South—that neighborhood is almost entirely populated by minorities.


There are only two conclusions possible when facing the very real prospect that thousands or millions of Americans live in areas you warn your friends not to go, even by accident: Either everyone in those areas is a criminal, or is content to live among and be victimized by criminals; or there is some number of people, and probably a large one, trapped in living conditions that cannot help but greatly inhibit their opportunities for success and advancement.

The key disagreement is whether 'trapped' is a fair word. The most extreme on both ends are wrong. At some point an individual must make choices to succeed, and many individuals have unfair obstacles to doing so. Libertarians would argue that where there is an unfair obstacle, there is a government mandate which caused it.

 

[James Madison]

I don't get it. This article is about the 'black experience', but the author is white.

 

[idiom]

I don't get it. This article is about the 'black experience', but the author is white.

Don't be racist dude.

White people can be black.

 

[idiom]

In other news Black Like Me just had a 50th anniversary print.

If you haven't, read it.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

I don't get it. This article is about the 'black experience', but the author is white.

Rare is a drivel mill trying to dumb down the liberty movement. Don't pay any attention to this garbage.

 

[osan]

http://rare.us/story/to-reach-black...o-understand-the-african-american-experience/

Very good read. Was really long so I didn't copy and paste

Not so great, actually. Author makes some good statements, but also some nonsense. To wit:

Jim Crow’s death is worth celebrating but hardly sufficient for establishing equal opportunity in any meaningful sense, especially when our society still effectively traps people in these conditions by both law and custom, based in no small part on their race. - See more at: http://rare.us/story/to-reach-black...can-american-experience/#sthash.FKgO8GZg.dpuf

Load of malarky. I lived as a young adult through an era where blacks had their asses kissed every which way by "government" on my nickel. Not only did they have every opportunity to do for themselves, they had artificially enhanced opportunity showered upon them in ways most white folk would never see for themselves. That "black people" (whatever in hell that even means) are statistically still in the shit tube has NOTHING to do with "white privilege" or anything else other than the fact that they don't do anything for themselves and are most fond of tearing each other down. That they have been given so much, have accomplished so little, and still manage to blame whitey for it all is definitive evidence of the corruption from which they issue in terms of attitude, always blaming someone else for their utter failure to act. Success is not going to happen when one never gets his butt off the couch.

And the white drama queens who wring their hands in "compassion" for these poor and so obviously inferior people are the worst of it because they make it all about THEMSELVES... Oh, look how I suffer for the black man - the tacit message being that the negroes are too god damned stupid to do for themselves and so the noble cracker must intercede on behalf of the black man. Such people will never in a million lifetimes admit it, but that is what I have observed time and again in them.

The compassionate welfare state has done nothing but drive black folk ever deeper into the de-facto slavery of dependence. It's not a black v. white thing - it's an issue of pure power and Theye have done a fine job of stooging the average black man in America into buying a line of shit so rotten that one must give Themme props for pulling it off so marvelously.

No, there is nothing righteous in the white hand-wringing stories such as this one where an author attempts to appear so evolved and compassionate and wise and generous of spirit by regurgitating the same clapped-out old lies about white guilt, effectively copping to them personally without really copping to them, if you know what I mean. It's disgusting, it is lame, and it is a subtle form of evil that should be exposed for what it is and slammed mercilessly into the dust.

Feh.

 

[Ronin Truth]

I think I'm more for the blacks reaching for the libertarians by understanding our experience.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I think I'm more for the blacks reaching for the libertarians by understanding our experience.

^^^This.

 

[jmdrake]

I think I'm more for the blacks reaching for the libertarians by understanding our experience.

I haven't read the article yet, but I will briefly share something from my own black quasi libertarian experience. I was recently at a family reunion of sorts. One of my cousins, who knows I support Ron and Rand Paul and who was wearing a Che Guevera t-shirt, immediately shouted "Four more years" talking about Obama. Well we had what started to be good natured funning that eventually ended in a full blown argument. His brother put us both in check. But here's the kicker. Before the weekend was out he was really starting to see my point of view. One revelation was about taxes. At first he was all for the whole "I love Warren Buffet and rich people need to pay more taxes" school of thought. No counter argument I made got through. Then I started asking questions instead of giving arguments. He had been convinced that "rich people just pay 15% while everyone else pays 35%". Of course...that's not true. I asked him if he thought Lebron James was "rich". He said "No because pro athletes don't know how to manage their money." I said "Fair enough. Say if Lebron James was hired by Dubai to coach their Olympic basketball team for 500 million a year. Now that's rich to me. Would he be taxed at 15%?" Of course the answer to that was "no". So you know what he said? "I think that everyone should have to pay the same thing no matter how they receive their income. I would set taxes at 5%" Once I picked up my jaw off the floor I said "You know you just sounded like a Tea Partier right?" He said "Somebody stab me."

We ended up coming to agreement on most things. At first he said he couldn't stand Rand Paul and called him an "extremist". I asked him what he didn't like about Rand. He said "Well he doesn't support affirmative action." I said "That's the typical republican position. How can you all it extremist?" Then I asked him about particular positions I new Rand had taken. "What do you think about Rand's filibusterer over drones?" He supported that. "What do you think about Rand raising concerns about the NSA after the Snowden revelations?" He supported that. "What do you think about Rand being against the drug war?" He supported that and pointed out that hemp isn't even a drug but it's suppressed by the government. I pointed out that Rand was upset that Obama blocked hemp growth in Kentucky. I asked "What do you think of Rand's criticism of our intervention in Syria and Libya and our going back into Iraq?" More support for Rand's position. So....we were left with "I don't like his position on Affirmative Action".

My cousin believes AA should continue indefinitely. I don't. Long discussion on that with he and another friend of the family. I pointed out what Malcolm X said about how you can't expect someone who oppressed you to be the one who freed you. I pointed out that Booker T. Washington, during the height of the Jim Crowe laws, had more economic power than most "black leaders" today in that he supplied all of the bricks for all of Tuskegee county. (Today, sadly, the Federal Park service runs the gift shop at Tuskegee which is full of trinkets made in China. This is the same institution that has a museum of all of the wonderful stuff that George Washington Carver made from things grown or found right there at Tuskegee.) I pointed out that during the Montgomery bus boycott, black taxis companies flourished. My point? Blacks could free ourselves economically without dependence on the government. The family friend, who was old enough to remember the pre Civil Rights Era, stated that he didn't want to return to a place where blacks had to be "as good as the best and better than the rest" to make it. My reply? I want that for my kids now and would want that even if I was white. And I've seen black parents at the park for little league football practice pushing their boys hard to be the best in football. Why not do that for academics?

One thing my cousin said that hit home is that he supported AA because he wanted to be "protected". I said "protected from what?" He said "I don't like the idea of someone calling me the n-word." I was like "Okay. I'd rather be protected from the police kicking my door in on a no knock warrant based on false information that I'm running a drug house and then killing me because I thought it was a home invasion and was defending myself as what happened to a black man in Nashville a few years ago or a black grandmother in Atlanta. In the case of the grandmother the cops planted drugs to cover up what they did. I want protection from the police planting drugs on my car, in full view of their own dash cameras, at a simple traffic cop as happened in Tennessee a few years ago as well. I'm much more concerned about that than I am about some idiot using the n-word. Ron Paul in 2008 pointed out that blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites, but are far more likely to be arrested, convicted and imprisoned than whites. It's the drug war I want protection from." My cousin hadn't heard about that speech by Ron Paul and I pointed out that it was at the GOP debate hosted by Tavis Smiley in 2008. He said he'd look it up.

We ended the weekend with mutual respect and he said he was going to change my name to "John X". Anyway, here's the bottom line. If you want to reach anyone you have to understand him/her. You can't be upset that they just don't "get it". Many of us didn't "get it" either. Find common ground. Respect the fact that people's fears are real to them even if they are illogical to you.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Good story. Keep up the good work. A free society is created one by one.

 

[jmdrake]

Not so great, actually. Author makes some good statements, but also some nonsense. To wit:


Load of malarky. I lived as a young adult through an era where blacks had their asses kissed every which way by "government" on my nickel. Not only did they have every opportunity to do for themselves, they had artificially enhanced opportunity showered upon them in ways most white folk would never see for themselves. That "black people" (whatever in hell that even means) are statistically still in the shit tube has NOTHING to do with "white privilege" or anything else other than the fact that they don't do anything for themselves and are most fond of tearing each other down. That they have been given so much, have accomplished so little, and still manage to blame whitey for it all is definitive evidence of the corruption from which they issue in terms of attitude, always blaming someone else for their utter failure to act. Success is not going to happen when one never gets his butt off the couch.

And about that time the government started flooding the African American community with drugs while at the same time ramping up the so called "war on drugs" which was really a war on the American people. Ron Paul understands the devastation this "one / two" punch has had on the black community. Black intellectual (and closet libertarian IMO) Tony Brown put it this way. "Blacks are the canary in the coal mine. What the government has done to blacks will eventually be done to whites." And....he's right. Yes there is someone to "blame". The problem is the blame has been misdirected. One form of state sponsored systematic oppression was replaced with a "kindler gentler" version, but black "leaders" focused on the battle they already "won". Donald Sterling is the boogeyman, meanwhile the Obama administration can bring in a C130 load of cocaine legally and nobody bats an eyelash.

If you want to "win friends and influence people" find something that you and they can agree on. (Like the fact that the government brings in the drugs then prosecutes people for buying/selling them is unthinkable.)

 

[Peace&Freedom]

And about that time the government started flooding the African American community with drugs while at the same time ramping up the so called "war on drugs" which was really a war on the American people. Ron Paul understands the devastation this "one / two" punch has had on the black community. Black intellectual (and closet libertarian IMO) Tony Brown put it this way. "Blacks are the canary in the coal mine. What the government has done to blacks will eventually be done to whites." And....he's right. Yes there is someone to "blame". The problem is the blame has been misdirected. One form of state sponsored systematic oppression was replaced with a "kindler gentler" version, but black "leaders" focused on the battle they already "won". Donald Sterling is the boogeyman, meanwhile the Obama administration can bring in a C130 load of cocaine legally and nobody bats an eyelash.

If you want to "win friends and influence people" find something that you and they can agree on. (Like the fact that the government brings in the drugs then prosecutes people for buying/selling them is unthinkable.)

Add to the blacks as the canary in the coal mine process, the rise of the prison industrial complex (first pile them up with blacks, then expand the 'prison planet' procedures to everybody else), the rise in mass illegitimacy (first encouraged among black girls in the '60's-'70's, then white teens thereafter) to weaken the family, the surveillance/SWAT team state (at first justified to crackdown on drugs in black areas, then expanded to terrorism), etc.

It appears that blacks have been the primary laboratory for building the Total State in the US, decade by decade. Wilbert Tatum of Harlem's Amsterdam News summed it up by saying (something like), the problem with most white Americans, who believe they're better off than (n-words), is that they don't know that the elite regards them as the white (n-words).

 

[acptulsa]

Load of malarky.

True. Thanks for the warning. Hate to go all grammar nazi on you, but that sentence should have had a colon ( : ) at the end of it. Every statement you began with...

...they don't do... . That they have been given so much, have accomplished so little, and still manage to blame whitey for it all is ... ... always blaming someone else for their utter failure...

...is dead wrong, and I believe Mr. Drake just proved it.

We aren't here to collectivize people and I don't like to see anyone do it here. If we as libertarians don't protect the individual's right to excel or give credit where due to individuals for excelling we are the worthless dogs many perceive us as being. Some may fit your narrative, perhaps even many do, and the things you say about the game that the power brokers play and that we are all pawns in may be true. But your points are lost when you begin your libertarian argument with a lot of collectivist lies.

If we're to win the votes of the people we can help out of the trap that the status quo has set for them, first we have to make them see how. And the only way to do that is to never forget for a moment that every member of every demographic is an individual. To see how misplaced concern creates and baits the traps that keep people down is to approach individuals as individuals and treat them that way. Once we fail to do that we cease to be what we say we are and we cease to be able to implement the real solutions that we have to offer. Every time we say, '...they do...' or '...they don't...' instead of '...many of them...' or '...those among them caught up in...' we throw our own principles right out the window and lose the audience of those people instantly before we even begin making it. They're right there on the ground, they know Mr. Drake (or someone like him), they know white people who do fit your description, and they will stop listening to you before you begin because who listens to someone who's full of shit?

With friends who do this Rand Paul needs no enemies.

 

[nayjevin]

That "black people" (whatever in hell that even means) are statistically still in the shit tube has NOTHING to do with "white privilege" or anything else other than the fact that they don't do anything for themselves and are most fond of tearing each other down.

Are you serious? All blacks don't do anything for themselves and are most fond of tearing each other down? You think that's the only reason for the statistically significant systemic economic and academic depression among American blacks? I'm ashamed to see such overt racism on this forum, which I regard as a group of particularly open minded friends of justice.

Take any individual black person in hard times and you don't know why. But we know that people with attitudes like yours are more likely to be in a position to hire than an equally stupid black man.

That they have been given so much, have accomplished so little, and still manage to blame whitey for it all is definitive evidence of the corruption from which they issue in terms of attitude, always blaming someone else for their utter failure to act. Success is not going to happen when one never gets his butt off the couch.

Disgusting. This attitude has nothing to do with color of skin. Every crackhead in America is blaming everyone but themselves. Government actively encouraged crack use in black communities. Government is almost all white. Blame whitey indeed!

And the white drama queens who wring their hands in "compassion" for these poor and so obviously inferior people are the worst of it because they make it all about THEMSELVES... Oh, look how I suffer for the black man - the tacit message being that the negroes are too god damned stupid to do for themselves and so the noble cracker must intercede on behalf of the black man. Such people will never in a million lifetimes admit it, but that is what I have observed time and again in them.

Wherever there is injustice any person should step in, without considering the color of their skin first. Anyone promoting bad policies should be criticized, no matter the color of their skin.

these poor and so obviously inferior people

That's all you needed to say.

 

[Working Poor]

If you want to "win friends and influence people" find something that you and they can agree on. (Like the fact that the government brings in the drugs then prosecutes people for buying/selling them is unthinkable.)

Thank you that is the best advice I have seen all day!

 

[Vanguard101]

Not so great, actually. Author makes some good statements, but also some nonsense. To wit:



Load of malarky. I lived as a young adult through an era where blacks had their asses kissed every which way by "government" on my nickel. Not only did they have every opportunity to do for themselves, they had artificially enhanced opportunity showered upon them in ways most white folk would never see for themselves. That "black people" (whatever in hell that even means) are statistically still in the shit tube has NOTHING to do with "white privilege" or anything else other than the fact that they don't do anything for themselves and are most fond of tearing each other down. That they have been given so much, have accomplished so little, and still manage to blame whitey for it all is definitive evidence of the corruption from which they issue in terms of attitude, always blaming someone else for their utter failure to act. Success is not going to happen when one never gets his butt off the couch.

And the white drama queens who wring their hands in "compassion" for these poor and so obviously inferior people are the worst of it because they make it all about THEMSELVES... Oh, look how I suffer for the black man - the tacit message being that the negroes are too god damned stupid to do for themselves and so the noble cracker must intercede on behalf of the black man. Such people will never in a million lifetimes admit it, but that is what I have observed time and again in them.

The compassionate welfare state has done nothing but drive black folk ever deeper into the de-facto slavery of dependence. It's not a black v. white thing - it's an issue of pure power and Theye have done a fine job of stooging the average black man in America into buying a line of shit so rotten that one must give Themme props for pulling it off so marvelously.

No, there is nothing righteous in the white hand-wringing stories such as this one where an author attempts to appear so evolved and compassionate and wise and generous of spirit by regurgitating the same clapped-out old lies about white guilt, effectively copping to them personally without really copping to them, if you know what I mean. It's disgusting, it is lame, and it is a subtle form of evil that should be exposed for what it is and slammed mercilessly into the dust.

Feh.

You don't get it at all.

 

[acptulsa]

You don't get it at all.

That's a charitable assumption. After all, he could be helping the powers that be divide the American populace for easier conquering on purpose

 

[osan]

And about that time the government started flooding the African American community with drugs while at the same time ramping up the so called "war on drugs" which was really a war on the American people.

Agreed. Race had nothing to do with it, per se. Power, OTOH, did.

Ron Paul understands the devastation this "one / two" punch has had on the black community

Yes, it was devastating, but it was those folks who devastated themselves. Nobody marched an armed force into the 'hood and made people smoke crack at the end of a barrel. The precise same can be said for any other "community", including the white.

Black intellectual (and closet libertarian IMO) Tony Brown put it this way. "Blacks are the canary in the coal mine. What the government has done to blacks will eventually be done to whites."

Not the best analogy. "Guinea pig" might be more apropos. That trifle aside, Theye got away with it because black folks let them. Theye are getting away with that which they do today because we are ALL letting them get away with it. We are ALL to blame - Themme for being the covetous, treacherous little hacks that they are, and the rest of us for not lynching every last stinking one of them. Shame on us all.

And....he's right. Yes there is someone to "blame". The problem is the blame has been misdirected.

Example? Just wondering where you'd go with this.

One form of state sponsored systematic oppression was replaced with a "kindler gentler" version, but black "leaders" focused on the battle they already "won". Donald Sterling is the boogeyman, meanwhile the Obama administration can bring in a C130 load of cocaine legally and nobody bats an eyelash.

The latter by far the more dangerous. In the days of open chattel slavery everyone knew the score. Now, almost nobody does anymore.

If you want to "win friends and influence people" find something that you and they can agree on. (Like the fact that the government brings in the drugs then prosecutes people for buying/selling them is unthinkable.)

Something meaningful. In principle I agree completely, but in practice the $64 is "How?" I never cease to be amazed at both blacks and jews who hold to the progressive-democrat line. It is mind boggling. If I were the descendant of the American slave era, the last thing I'd be advocating, for example, would be gun control and a large state government. Just how endlessly stupid can you get? It was GOVERNMENT who actively supported and often drew the framework for chattel slave trading. It was GOVERNMENT who instituted Jim Crow. It was GOVERNMENT who failed to protect those poor bastards from the lynch mobs. Virtually every outrage perpetrated upon inherently free men came to pass at the hands of government, directly or otherwise, yet the current crop of black imbeciles look to government to save them from the jazzy-ole white man. For pity's sake, someone is sawing your damned arm off with a herring and making a pretty good show of it. Might you not want to stop praying to them and smack them into the next three counties, perhaps?

After what jews went through in Europe under Hitler, one would think every jew on the planet would be 10 million percent behind the right to keep and bear arms. The vast majority are terrified of guns and want them taken from everyone. I grew up marinaded in jews and other than a tiny handful of sensible and non-fearful examples, not a one of them was anything other than completely opposed to "ordinary" people having access to guns. Just "military and police".

Seriously, it is as if there is some massive and intense Stockholm deal going on with those two groups in relation to government. It makes no sense to me at all. The thing that threatens them most is the thing to which they fall upon their knees, mouths wide open and ready. It's sick.