tight borders = unlibertarian and unconstitutional

[Rylick]

This is one issue that has been a long time on my mind. The idea of tight USborders is not really what the founding fahters intended to have. The USA has been and is still an immigration country. As it's written on the fundament of the statue of liberty
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

Even under the economic aspect why should immigration hurt the USeconomy ?
We all accept the fact that the workingmarket is just a normal market like every other market. And we all accept that marketinterventions like customs destroy the free market. So why making a difference here ? It's not like "Mexicans are going to take your jobs" how neo-cons like to see it. If there are unoccupied jobs in the US, that simply means there are not enought resources in the homeland so you have to take foreign resources, no matter if these are low, middle or high income jobs. They all contribute to american society.
So why does Ron Paul endorse such liberal measures ?

 

[nandnor]

nvm

 

[Stary Hickory]

How about stopping the unconstitutional welfare state first then we can talk. I am sick of people wanting to allow anyone in this country and yet simultaneously pay almost no attention to the institutionalized violent welfare state that is attracting people here to exploit it.

When there was nothing to offer but freedom and opportunity that was different. The Democrats are already salivating at the idea of adding another constituency to their doles. Maybe that sounds partisan, but really this has been a stratgey of this particualr party for a long time. The exploitation of blacks was fully realized under progressives.

We have a mob government ruled by mob rule. Had we a constituional republic with a functioning constituion that GARANTEED our liberties and rights then immigration would not be a problem at all.

 

[paulitics]

Bull crap. A borderless country is the globalist agenda, not the founding father's. I am not a North American, but an American.

However, building a wall, rfid chips, and a thuggish police state is not the answer. It is very simple, end the welfare state, and enforce the law by going after employers who break it.

 

[Rylick]

How about stopping the unconstitutional welfare state first then we can talk. I am sick of people wanting to allow anyone in this country and yet simultaneously pay almost no attention to the institutionalized violent welfare state that is attracting people here to exploit it.

When there was nothing to offer but freedom and opportunity that was different. The Democrats are already salivating at the idea of adding another constituency to their doles. Maybe that sounds partisan, but really this has been a stratgey of this particualr party for a long time. The exploitation of blacks was fully realized under progressives.

We have a mob government ruled by mob rule. Had we a constituional republic with a functioning constituion that GARANTEED our liberties and rights then immigration would not be a problem at all.

Yes you are right. That was something I felt to add but then I deleted it. Of course wellfare system is unconstitutional as well. Don't get me wrong I am not talking about people coming to the USA and enjoying the wellfare state. I am talking about people who want to go to the USA and work. Working people are no burden to society. They contribute their productivity to the labour pool of America.
This additional value is no harm for the USA.

To make this clear: I am not talking about a wide open state with no borders. But cut the greencard crap. If I want to live the american way of life and if I want to contribute to the american society I shouldn't take part in a lottery.

@nandnor: I can't be a patriot...I'm from europe

 

[Stary Hickory]

Yes you are right. That was something I felt to add but then I deleted it. Of course wellfare system is unconstitutional as well. Don't get me wrong I am not talking about people coming to the USA and enjoying the wellfare state. I am talking about people who want to go to the USA and work. Working people are no burden to society. They contribute their productivity to the labour pool of America.
This additional value is no harm for the USA.

To make this clear: I am not talking about a wide open state with no borders. But cut the greencard crap. If I want to live the american way of life and if I want to contribute to the american society I shouldn't take part in a lottery.

@nandnor: I can't be a patriot...I'm from europe

Well then I agree with you under these conditions. Hard working imigrants seeking opportunity and freedom and an escape from statism was what made America great.

The problem we have now is one political party hell bent on promising anyone anywhere(even foreign nationals) the property of Americans for political support. It's an imigration nightmare.

 

[noxagol]

I am not a North American, but an American

I am not American, I am simply me.

 

[silentshout]

I am not American, I am simply me.

+1 ^^

 

[AuH20]

Unfortunately, being held accountable for large punitive damages and/or long jail sentence for defending one person's private property and rights are unlibertarian and unconsitutional as well.

 

[TastyWheat]

I'm all for open borders so long as the process to become a citizen (with voting privileges) is just as arduous as it is now.

 

[Ninja Homer]

I am not a North American, but an American.

So is a Mexican... and a Canadian, and even an Argentinian. Try US national or US citizen, or even whatever state you're from... I'm a Minnesotan.

But yes, the real answer lies in ending all the benefits to illegal immigrants.

 

[Son of Liberty 2]

This is one issue that has been a long time on my mind. The idea of tight USborders is not really what the founding fahters intended to have. The USA has been and is still an immigration country. As it's written on the fundament of the statue of liberty
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

The founding fathers were white racists. Isn't refuse garbage?

This law limited naturalization to aliens who were "free white persons" and thus left out indentured servants, slaves, free blacks, and later Asians, as well as women.

Naturalization Act of 1790

 

[sofia]

That rubbish on the Statue of Liberty was written by a leftist Zionist named Emma Lazurus.

Please dont quote that "wretched refuse" bullshit as some sort of sacred writ.

 

[jack555]

This is one issue that has been a long time on my mind. The idea of tight USborders is not really what the founding fahters intended to have. The USA has been and is still an immigration country. As it's written on the fundament of the statue of liberty
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

Even under the economic aspect why should immigration hurt the USeconomy ?
We all accept the fact that the workingmarket is just a normal market like every other market. And we all accept that marketinterventions like customs destroy the free market. So why making a difference here ? It's not like "Mexicans are going to take your jobs" how neo-cons like to see it. If there are unoccupied jobs in the US, that simply means there are not enought resources in the homeland so you have to take foreign resources, no matter if these are low, middle or high income jobs. They all contribute to american society.
So why does Ron Paul endorse such liberal measures ?

A big part of it is this.

Its not about illegal immigration, its about tax payers paying welfare and medical bills for illegal immigrants. Eliminate the welfare and you will solve a great deal of the conflict.

The second part is that many of those illegally coming in are criminals who care nothing for our natural rights or our country.


edit- Many here are small government libertarians, not anarchists. I like to think of small government as the minimum amount of government it takes to keep things running smoothly with the government mainly protecting our natural rights. A necessary part of this government may be keeping illegal immigrants out depending on the effect they would have (or are having) on our country.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

This is one issue that has been a long time on my mind. The idea of tight US borders is not really what the founding fahters intended to have. The USA has been and is still an immigration country. As it's written on the fundament of the statue of liberty
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

Just for clarity, that quote on the Statue of Liberty was written by a poet in 1883. It was not written by any of the Founding Fathers.

 

[papajohn56]

Workers issues and immigration aside, a "tight" border for the sake of protecting our citizens from the drug war is fine by me. I'd rather have our troops be brought home and placed on our own border. Obviously we should legalize, but in the mean time even if we did, cartel violence would still be going on, there wouldn't be an instant drop.

 

[mikem317]

Immigration into the United States doesn't hurt the US economy. Historically, most migrants came to the United States to escape their draconian governments and establish roots in the home of the free. Let them come and go as they please.

The problem is the socialized entitlement systems. They need to be demolished.

At any rate, most of the people I run into that are anti-immigrant, tend to preface their arguments "I'm all for legal immigration" which is just a fancy way of saying "I'm a closet racist".

 

[mikem317]

Workers issues and immigration aside, a "tight" border for the sake of protecting our citizens from the drug war is fine by me. I'd rather have our troops be brought home and placed on our own border. Obviously we should legalize, but in the mean time even if we did, cartel violence would still be going on, there wouldn't be an instant drop.

That "drug war" was manufactured by the US government's anti-economic polices.

 

[FrankRep]

Tight Borders = Constitutional

Jack McManus on the Immigration Invasion

 

[South Park Fan]

Tight Borders = Constitutional

Jack McManus on the Immigration Invasion

Where in Article I, Section 8 does Congress have the authority to prevent immigration into this country?