Thousands Apply to U.S. to Forgive Their Student Loans, Saying Schools Defrauded Them

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/thousan...oans-saying-schools-defrauded-them-1453285800

Jan. 20, 2016 5:30 a.m. ET

Americans are flooding the government with appeals to have their student loans forgiven on the grounds that schools deceived them with false promises of a well-paying career—part of a growing protest against years of surging college costs.

In the past six months, more than 7,500 borrowers owing $164 million have applied to have their student debt expunged under an obscure federal law that had been applied only in three instances before last year. The law forgives debt for borrowers who prove their schools used illegal tactics to recruit them, such as by lying about their graduates’ earnings.

The U.S. Education Department has already agreed to cancel nearly $28 million of that debt for 1,300 former students of Corinthian Colleges—the for-profit chain that liquidated in bankruptcy last year. The department has indicated that many more will likely get forgiveness.

The program could prove to be one of the few lifelines for hundreds of thousands of Americans buried in student debt after attending disreputable schools that failed to land them a decent job. Federal law prohibits student debt from being discharged in bankruptcy, except in rare circumstances, and the Supreme Court last week declined to hear a case that could have expanded bankruptcy options.

The sudden surge in claims has flummoxed the Education Department, which says the 1994 forgiveness program is overly vague. The law doesn’t specify, for example, what proof is needed to demonstrate a school committed fraud. Last week, the department began a monthslong negotiation with representatives of students, schools and lenders to set clear rules, including when the department can go after institutions to claw back tuition money funded by student loans.

Education Department officials say they are still trying to grasp the potential bill that will be footed by taxpayers. They say the cost of forgiveness could ultimately be in the billions of dollars.

“We just don’t know” the potential scope, said Ted Mitchell, the Education Department’s undersecretary. “This is new territory for us.”

Mr. Mitchell added that borrowers are entitled to forgiveness—as well as potential reimbursement of repaid loans—if they have been defrauded, regardless of the taxpayer cost. “The law is clear about giving students redress when they’ve been defrauded,” he said.

Andrew Kelly of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, said there is a danger that the program will become overly broad, encompassing not just instances of outright fraud, but also cases in which borrowers simply regret taking out the debt because they can’t find a job, through no fault of the colleges.

“It gets much more difficult when students say, ‘Well, I was told this would improve my job prospects.… I don’t have a job, and I’m mad about it, and I think I’m defrauded,’” Mr. Kelly said.

The surge in applications reflects the growing savvy of student activists, who discovered the law last year after it had largely sat dormant for two decades. Education Department officials say the agency failed to draft rules after the law was passed in the early 1990s and lacked the urgency to do so because it had only received five applications—three of them granted—before last year.

The clamoring for forgiveness represents the fallout of a college-enrollment boom—driven by a surge in students attending for-profit colleges—that caused student debt to nearly triple in the past decade to $1.2 trillion, New York Federal Reserve figures show. Seven million Americans have defaulted, government data show.

So far, almost all of the borrowers applying for forgiveness under the 1994 program attended for-profit schools. Three-quarters went to Corinthian-owned institutions, while hundreds of others attended the Art Institutes, owned by Education Management Corp.; and ITT Technical Institutes, owned by ITT Educational Services Inc. All three have been the subject of federal investigations into illegal recruiting tactics in recent years.

An Art Institutes spokesman declined to comment. Corinthian Colleges was liquidated in bankruptcy last year; the company denied allegations of illegal recruiting tactics.

ITT said it wants “to assist students with a legitimate grievance.” But it added that it believes the company has been unfairly targeted by the Obama administration in what it characterized as a broad campaign against for-profit colleges.

In letters to the Education Department, borrowers speak of frayed lives after taking on huge debts to attend schools that they say provided inept instructors and failed to land them the industry jobs they promised.

“I feel robbed of my life,” wrote one student who said she owes $114,000 in federal student debt—most of it in her mother’s name—for her time at a branch of the Art Institutes chain of for-profit schools. “Even after paying my student loans on time and in full every month for over seven years, I’ve barely made a dent.”

Syd Andrade’s story is emblematic. He said in an interview that during his high-school senior year, he received a call from an Art Institutes recruiter promising “great facilities, great teachers, use of industry-standard software” for a game-art design program.

Mr. Andrade, who graduated from the company’s Tampa, Fla., location, said the classes used outdated software and were taught by an instructor who knew less than the students. “Most of the time spent in her classes were us teaching her,” he said. “It was a group effort of everyone trying to learn together.”

The school had also promised to help him land an industry job, he said. But when he graduated in 2011, the school placed him in an $8-an-hour job working behind the counter at a local Office Depot. He said they did the same for his girlfriend, another graduate of the school.

Mr. Andrade and his girlfriend moved to Austin, Texas, where he now makes $44,000 a year working in technical support for a major media company, outside his desired field. “They promised us to get jobs in the field, and most of us ended up at Office Depot,” he said.

The Art Institutes spokesman, Bob Greenlee, declined to comment.

The case of Mr. Andrade, who is trying to document the school’s actions, points to tough decisions facing the Education Department. Many students say recruiters verbally made misleading promises and cited fraudulent job-placement data, but the students often lack documentation to prove it. Moreover, consumer-protection laws vary by state, and a recruiting practice might be legal in one state but illegal in another. The Education Department has hired a special master to sort through existing claims as it drafts permanent rules.

Luke Herrine, an organizer with the student-activist group Debt Collective, said the number of borrowers defrauded by colleges, most of them in the for-profit sector, is likely in the millions. His group is pushing for the Education Department to cancel loans for entire classes of students instead of individually. “An individualized process is likely to underprovide relief,” he said, pointing out that many borrowers might not realize they are entitled to loan forgiveness.
 
Mine actually did defraud me, and I've not applied for any such thing. I signed up circa 2003 for CTU online asking for IT tech courses and they kept enrolling me in marketing classes. I finally gave up in disgust.
 
Syd Andrade’s story is emblematic. He said in an interview that during his high-school senior year, he received a call from an Art Institutes recruiter promising “great facilities, great teachers, use of industry-standard software” for a game-art design program.

Mr. Andrade, who graduated from the company’s Tampa, Fla., location, said the classes used outdated software and were taught by an instructor who knew less than the students. “Most of the time spent in her classes were us teaching her,” he said. “It was a group effort of everyone trying to learn together.”

The school had also promised to help him land an industry job, he said. But when he graduated in 2011, the school placed him in an $8-an-hour job working behind the counter at a local Office Depot. He said they did the same for his girlfriend, another graduate of the school.

Mr. Andrade and his girlfriend moved to Austin, Texas, where he now makes $44,000 a year working in technical support for a major media company, outside his desired field. “They promised us to get jobs in the field, and most of us ended up at Office Depot,” he said.

First of all, I have yet to meet anyone in the industry who has anything good to say about the Art Institute, at least where game design is concerned. In fact, IIRC, everyone who I have met who has had any experience with the Art Institute has always warned people against it. So, it sounds to me like perhaps they didn't do much research.

Secondly, the outdated software thing seems sketchy to me. For starters, just about all of the relevant software for this field offers either very reduced-cost, or entirely free student licenses for the software. This includes the entire Autodesk line-up which is, by and large, the industry standard (e.g. 3D Studio Max, Maya, etc.). Adobe's student licensing has changed over the years, but it isn't and has never been very unreasonable either, IIRC, especially relative to full retail pricing; and there are alternatives to Adobe, anyway. And this is assuming you don't just torrent this shit, which is, as far as I'm aware, a common practice where education and educational work is concerned. Game engine licensing can vary, but most game engine licenses get the lion's share, if not all of their revenue from a percentage of the profits from the sale of a game made with their engine, so for a student, these would be cheap, or entirely free as well. In my classes, we used Unreal 3 (and UDK), which was free to everyone (this was before Unreal 4 was released), and later we used Unity--never had to pay for anything game engine related.

And even though developers like Autodesk tend to release a new version of their software just about every year, the software environment doesn't really change all that much from version to version, year to year. Newer versions tend to bring better stability, and perhaps some new bells and whistles, but the basic functionality and use of the software tends to remain relatively the same. So, it's not like using a year or two-year old version of Maya is going to be entirely foreign to the newer version. So, I'm not sure how "outdatedness" is really an issue here, especially considering Autodesk's student licensing, and how easy their software is to torrent.

Also, as virtually everyone in the industry will tell you, as if it wasn't already apparent--and from what I gather, this goes for just about any kind of art-related field--more than anything else, your portfolio is what lands you work, not your college, or their job placement services. Even when I was still taking classes, every single professor, and every single development studio that came to visit us told the exact same thing. No studio that I've ever heard of is just going to hire someone because some job assistance program at some college wants them to. So, I'm honestly not sure what these two were expecting. Did they think AI could just snap their fingers and get them on an asset team at a development house?

I never went to AI, and I don't have a high opinion of, or any interest in defending AI, but this all just seems like laziness, excuses, irresponsibility, and whining to me, quite honestly.
 
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with the quality of education being as it is today i would say these students have a good case ;)
 
ITT said it wants “to assist students with a legitimate grievance.” But it added that it believes the company has been unfairly targeted by the Obama administration in what it characterized as a broad campaign against for-profit colleges.

This. The progs want free college, and they want the government to be the sole provider. We'd be better off if the non-profit model was abandoned in favor letting producers (aka corporations) run the programs they need to train people in.
 
This. The progs want free college, and they want the government to be the sole provider. We'd be better off if the non-profit model was abandoned in favor letting producers (aka corporations) run the programs they need to train people in.

i mostly agree , i learned a lot more ( high tech electronics ) in the military and working in defense electronics after mil than i ever did in college , you will always learn more on the job than in school .

there is no reason for college loans to be so high when we loan the banksters money for about nothing .
 
The key line:
Education Department officials say they are still trying to grasp the potential bill that will be footed by taxpayers. They say the cost of forgiveness could ultimately be in the billions of dollars.
 
You're not?

Have you been asleep under a rock? There are very few jobs remaining that you can legally contract a bid on without a license. Sure... you can be someone's hourly peon... but only if bossman is licensed.


In the United States, the state governments have jurisdiction for issuing most professional licenses to individuals and corporations.
Fields that are regulated and licensed vary among individual states. Among regulated fields are health care professionals (medical doctors, nurses); psychologists; lawyers; teachers; engineers; social workers, occupational therapists, architects; tradesmen (plumbers, electricians), and certain service industry workers (bartenders; massage therapists; barbers).
It is now possible to verify an individual state license in all states online, via websites set up by each state government, by different agencies. Some private websites provide links to all such databases, in one location.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_licensure_in_the_United_States


To legally change the faucet on your neighbor's kitchen sink in NYC you're looking at no less than half a million dollars and 8 year time investment.


...of course if you want to do something mundane like paint your girlfriends finger nails for a few bucks that shouldn't be an issue... well...


The State of Illinois requires four exams to become a "nail technician," or manicurist. [SUP][2][/SUP]
 
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Have you been asleep under a rock? There are very few jobs remaining that you can legally contract a bid on without a license.

Source?

Sure... you can be someone's hourly peon... but only if they're licensed.

My guess would be that the number of such jobs available is not "very few."

Also, your claim that I replied to wasn't about professional licenses, but about it not being legal to enter the professional workforce without a government approved diploma, which is not the same thing as a professional license.

I'm with you 100% on legal requirements of professional licensure. There shouldn't be any, in any field at all.
 
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Saying Schools Defrauded Them

Schools didn't defraud anybody.

We're talking about a bunch of kids whose parents drilled into them the importance of education and the irrelevance of debt.

So here's a bunch of teenagers getting "paid" to stay in school and make their parents happy living it up away from home without producing squat.

No better than government employees.
 
Source?



My guess would be that the number of such jobs available is not "very few."

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-f...l-licensing-practices-kearney-hershbein-boddy

But many states require a license to legally perform a job where the risks of getting it wrong seem far less dire for potential consumers. For example, some states require that florists and make-up artists satisfy expensive and time-intensive requirements before they are legally permitted to perform their jobs. Also subject to such requirements in various states are locksmiths, ballroom dance instructors, hair braiders, manicurists, interior designers, and upholsterers.

This regulatory practice is known as “occupational licensing,” and it has spread to cover around 30 percent of the U.S. workforce, up from just 5 percent in the 1950s. The practice now has a significant bearing on workers of all skill levels, and extends far beyond the occupations of doctors, lawyers, nurses, and teachers.

It is important to realize that occupational licenses are not mere state-sponsored certificates to signal that workers have completed some level of training; occupational licensing laws forbid people from practicing in their occupation without meeting state requirements. If the rationale for licensing an electrician is to protect public safety, it is difficult to see what rationale supports licensing travel guides. Yet, twenty-one states require a license for travel guides. Among these, Nevada has created the highest hurdle: a person hoping to be a travel guide in that state must put in 733 days of training and shell out $1,500 for the license.

There can be an obvious disconnect between the strictness of licensing regulations and the potential harm to consumer safety. For example, Michigan requires 1,460 days of education and training to become an athletic trainer, but just 26 to be an emergency medical technician (EMT). In fact, across all states, interior designers, barbers, cosmetologists, and manicurists all face greater average licensing requirements than do EMTs.


So that's 30% of all jobs require a worker license.

That leaves 70% of workers unlicensed. Where do they get jobs? Licensed or unlicensed establishments?


Virtually every business needs some form of license or permit to operate legally.

https://www.sba.gov/content/what-state-licenses-and-permits-does-your-business-need
 
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So that's 30% of all jobs require a worker license.

That leaves 70% of workers unlicensed. Where do they get jobs? Licensed or unlicensed establishments?

Irrelevant. The point is that those individuals themselves don't have to have licenses.

I used to work as an engineer. I didn't have a license. Yes, I worked for people with licenses. But I didn't have one. That was completely normal.

It's even more normal for all these people getting liberal arts degrees, who, I have a feeling, make up the bulk of the ones the OP is talking about. A lot of professional licenses can be gotten without college degrees. And a lot of college degrees have nothing to do with fulfilling a requirement to get a license.

Licensure laws cause huge problems. No doubt about it. But they haven't yet made it impossible to make a good living without a license.
 
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Relax, that's only 22k per head.

That is actually quite a bit considering they are paying rent and making car payments , it would be similar to the same in low interest credit card debt. I hope they are putting away something for retirement .
 
Relax, that's only 22k per head.

That is actually quite a bit considering they are paying rent and making car payments , it would be similar to the same in low interest credit card debt. I hope they are putting away something for retirement .
 
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