This Film and my Ron Paul conversion

[1k9]

I agree with your premise that free speech should never be quieted, but that doesn't mean that it can't be challenged. Your addition of the movie to this forum makes a link to Ron Paul, and I would agree that you may have a right to post it, I think it makes a connection to a socialist movement. I'm not proud of it, but I do watch a lot of MSM and I am always seeing things being taken out of context. Besides, I personally am offended by governments who control their people like Chavez does. Whatever your reasoning is for liking the video, I commend you, but when I was watching it, I felt as though it was nothing but propaganda against the US, and for Chavez.

Just my opinion

 

[Revolution9]

And here I thought the movie was about a democratically elected popular leader of the people of Venezuela being taken out in a CIA sponsored and elite backed coup.

The army was cut off from communicastions and could not rush to his aid in the first hours of the coup. The will of the people themselves against the media and PTB who were complicit in the coup dissolving the government and proclaiming themselves the new government..like tinhorn dictators are wont to do..is the centerpoint of the story..

No matter how they tried to use the media and their "emergency powers" derived from their own profligate criminality and inablty to win an unrigged election with one of their own sockpuppets, the people marched with their household tools. pots and pans banging away as the colorful and expressive latin peoples are prone to do when pissed off at their governments actions. They surrounded the Presidential Palace in the hundreds of thousands holding the coup clowns hostage in the house they wished to ideologically occupy to financially extract and manipulate Venezuelas natural wealth through more of the same and even greater continuous transactional insertion.Finally the communication lines were established between loyal government forces and the whereabouts of Hugo were known and a rescue mission sent with some serious miltary from Venezuelas government loyal forces.

Looked to me like the Venezuelans were happy he was back when he returned.

At least that was what I though it was about..When you mess with the will of the people and try to take out the man they have chosen as their man who speaks for them then you can expect "blowback" from the masses.. Pissed off people on the streets are not at home watching the TV to swallow the propaganda.. The guy who proclaimed he was the new Attorney General or some crap with his PTB oil rich goon squad milling in pathetic obsequiousness around the hall reminds me of Romney.

The TV station the elected government did not renew the license for was complicit in the coup and broadcast seditiously. It has become somewhat of a public TV channel part of the braodcast spectrum. They still have several others on the air AFAIK. This is a mild slap on the wrist for their treason,. He is being kind. They could be shot at Leavenworth in the US for the same thing.

But ..isn't that their business what they do in their country? Tossing labels around is getting passe.. Can you point to specific dictatorial acts like we can with Bush for instance? [messing with Habeus Corpus come to mind as well as the doctrine of pre-emptive war and rule by propaganda] Ya do gotta hand it to the guy for supplying oil to some of the poorer neighborhoods at deep discounts or free as well as native Alaskan aboriginales. Looks to me he is just trying to right some wrongs..

A continuing public disourse on the issue in a civil and democratic fashion can be viewed at this link.. Looks like balanced coverage to me and proper explanations of their country's political workings and dynamic..

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/


BTW..I see people having to resort to personal mesaaging to speak truths other do not want to hear or mouthed. I ask.. Is this America and the Ron Paul forums where free and open exchange and sharing of opinion is sacrosanct and not to be be bullied? I have seen voluminous ad hominem attacks and straw man gambits directed at Venezuelas landslide elected leader but no facts laid out coherently..mere propaganda..a staple of communism BTW... Why? and why the shyness to speak opinions publicly and hide behind PM's? Don't be bullied. Don't bully. You want your country back?? The Venezuelans do too.

As a Canadian part of the problem with American popele when they bluster thoughtlessly about other peoples around the world is their name calling and labelling of others foreign lands and cultures. Hell a good many of them can't even locate the rest of the world on a map of said place if some of the youtube videos are to be seen and believed..As a recipient many times of Canadian "socialized" medicine when i had to fly back because i had no insurance for a US hospital on my youthfull hitchhikings across the states in the mid 70's, i was given royal treatment. Just as a for example.


Best Regards
Randy

 

[SeekLiberty]

Andrew76 "George Bush is a corporatist, neocon fool, but hardly the literal interpretation of "fascist dictator."

You're going to let Bush off the hook as simply being a fool? His actions speak much louder than writing him off as just a fool. What he's doing is EVIL.

Andrew76 wrote: "Chavez is a brutal dictator who silences opposition by killing them with his militia. That is a fact."

But our brutal killer "I'm the decider" dictator one-ups Chavez by torturing people and killing thousands of Iraqi children, and ruining the infastructure of Iraq (water, power, etc).

Is Chavez doing that? Besides, Chavez is NOT a "brutal" dictator. He did not order his guys to fire on the protesters like you said was "fact." You got that wrong my friend. The media has apparently misled you too like most Americans.

People should be encouraged to watch this documentary and judge for themselves if they think he's a "brutal dictator."

Andrew76 wrote: "Furthermore, the supporting of socialist ideals as Hugo Chavez does is far more evil than anything George Bush has done so far."

14 cents a gallon gas and free education is more evil than torture and killing thousands of Iraqi mothers and children?

Andrew76 wrote: "Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Bush, but you're way way out there with this comparison."

I dont' see how I'm "way other there."

Andrew76 wrote: "The U.S. is not now, nor was it ever intended to be a true democracy, but instead a Constitutional Republic based on the rule of law. Democratic tyranny is a thing the founders tried very hard to avoid, ie: 51% of the population telling 49% of the population how to live."

Agreed. Nothing new to me.

"People also loved Hitler, so just because people love Chavez now, doesn't mean anything."

Now comparing Chavez to Hitler is "way out there." lol. However with the Directive 51 and what Bush is currently up to ... that comparison would come closer for him.

Andrew76 wrote: "You cannot simultaneously hate socialism and support Chavez."

Did I say I "supported" Chavez policies? lol. I just want the truth to be known about how the people of Venezuala REVOLTED to an coup installed dictatoral take-over in which there were no elections for, and was led by our own government! Americans were told a bunch of lies by our neocons and corporate private media.

We need to fix our own home here first before we cry wolf about other government leaderes and set an example to the world again about what true freedom means.

Andrew76 wrote: "And no again, we are not a socialist country, ...yet. We are leaning that way. France, UK, Sweden, Canada, Mexico, etc. are all much more socialist than we are. For example, they all have socialized medicine, whereas we do not."

But we ARE a socialist country. We have a welfare state. Our government robs from Peter to pay Paul. I call that theft. At least Chavez isn't doing that. He believes the wealth of the natural oil resource of their land should be for the general welfare (constitutional sense) of all the people ... not private oil interests and this drives the greedy world elite nuts! That's why so many lies are spewn about Chavez.

Andrew76 wrote: "If their leader is a socialist dictator who wants to rule not by law, but by decree (as he currently does), it is right to criticize him, elected or not."

It's not true he doesn't want rule of law. Did you really watch the movie and understand it? The protesters who were demanding back Chavez, their constitutional government, and rule of law were Chavez supporters. Apparently they don't believe Chavez is a "brutal dictator."

Andrew76 wrote: "Of course the poor people like nationalized oil, they do nothing to earn the profits, and yet they still see money for work they didn't do."

They don't get their oil for nothing. The people still have to pay. Chavez believes their oil is their lands natural resource and the wealth of it should be for the general welfare of all the people. The benefit to the people is to pay 14 cents a gallon versus us making VERY CORRUPT private oil companies (with blood on their hands) rich by gouging us at the pumps for $3.51 a gallon (in my area).

Is that so wrong COMPARED TO the neocon's policy of blood for oil?

Private oil companies are out of control. Chavez knows that. BTW, he offered us very cheap oil if we'd get out of Iraq and the affairs of the middle east. But the neocons turned it down.

We should allow the Iraqi's to decide what they want to do with their natural oil resources too. Instead, international oil companies are trying to steal it with the help of U.S. military industrial complex.

Andrew76 wrote: "If their leader is a socialist dictator who wants to rule not by law, but by decree (as he currently does),"

Where are you getting your information? This simply not true. He's actually teaching the people THEIR constitution ... their rule of law. They love their constitution!

I only wish our own president would insist (like Chavez does) for all Americans to learn our own constitution. lol. I know Ron Paul would!

You and I agree on a lot. I think you think I'm confused and I think you're confused about Chavez. lol. In any case, I'll fight for your right to your opinion! ;-)

Believe me, I hate it when our neocons and corporate media keep on referring to our government as a "democracy" when it's a REPUBLIC.

As I know you know, a democracy is when 2 wolves and a sheep decided what's for breakfast.

MOST of our founding fathers hated democracies and knew we needed a government that could not have a majority vote ... vote out individual rights.

I've read Atlas Shrugged by the way.

I recommend Ron Pauls book "Freedom Under Seige" (online reading link in my signature). I think it's an easier read for most than Atlas.

 

[SeekLiberty]

And here I thought the movie was about a democratically elected popular leader of the people of Venezuela being taken out in a CIA sponsored and elite backed coup.

The army was cut off from communicastions and could not rush to his aid in the first hours of the coup. The will of the people themselves against the media and PTB who were complicit in the coup dissolving the government and proclaiming themselves the new government..like tinhorn dictators are wont to do..is the centerpoint of the story..

No matter how they tried to use the media and their "emergency powers" derived from their own profligate criminality and inablty to win an unrigged election with one of their own sockpuppets, the people marched with their household tools. pots and pans banging away as the colorful and expressive latin peoples are prone to do when pissed off at their governments actions. They surrounded the Presidential Palace in the hundreds of thousands holding the coup clowns hostage in the house they wished to ideologically occupy to financially extract and manipulate Venezuelas natural wealth through more of the same and even greater continuous transactional insertion.Finally the communication lines were established between loyal government forces and the whereabouts of Hugo were known and a rescue mission sent with some serious miltary from Venezuelas government loyal forces.

Looked to me like the Venezuelans were happy he was back when he returned.

At least that was what I though it was about..When you mess with the will of the people and try to take out the man they have chosen as their man who speaks for them then you can expect "blowback" from the masses.. Pissed off people on the streets are not at home watching the TV to swallow the propaganda.. The guy who proclaimed he was the new Attorney General or some crap with his PTB oil rich goon squad milling in pathetic obsequiousness around the hall reminds me of Romney.

The TV station the elected government did not renew the license for was complicit in the coup and broadcast seditiously. It has become somewhat of a public TV channel part of the braodcast spectrum. They still have several others on the air AFAIK. This is a mild slap on the wrist for their treason,. He is being kind. They could be shot at Leavenworth in the US for the same thing.

But ..isn't that their business what they do in their country? Tossing labels around is getting passe.. Can you point to specific dictatorial acts like we can with Bush for instance? [messing with Habeus Corpus come to mind as well as the doctrine of pre-emptive war and rule by propaganda] Ya do gotta hand it to the guy for supplying oil to some of the poorer neighborhoods at deep discounts or free as well as native Alaskan aboriginales. Looks to me he is just trying to right some wrongs..

A continuing public disourse on the issue in a civil and democratic fashion can be viewed at this link.. Looks like balanced coverage to me and proper explanations of their country's political workings and dynamic..

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/


BTW..I see people having to resort to personal mesaaging to speak truths other do not want to hear or mouthed. I ask.. Is this America and the Ron Paul forums where free and open exchange and sharing of opinion is sacrosanct and not to be be bullied? I have seen voluminous ad hominem attacks and straw man gambits directed at Venezuelas landslide elected leader but no facts laid out coherently..mere propaganda..a staple of communism BTW... Why? and why the shyness to speak opinions publicly and hide behind PM's? Don't be bullied. Don't bully. You want your country back?? The Venezuelans do too.

As a Canadian part of the problem with American popele when they bluster thoughtlessly about other peoples around the world is their name calling and labelling of others foreign lands and cultures. Hell a good many of them can't even locate the rest of the world on a map of said place if some of the youtube videos are to be seen and believed..As a recipient many times of Canadian "socialized" medicine when i had to fly back because i had no insurance for a US hospital on my youthfull hitchhikings across the states in the mid 70's, i was given royal treatment. Just as a for example.


Best Regards
Randy

Nice compact review and analysis, and the link, Randy. Thank you. Now I hope Americans will be encouraged to LOOK for themselves and discover what's really going on in Venezuela instead of listening to/reading U.S. propaganda from main-stream corporate media.

 

[SeekLiberty]

"100% not true my patriot friend. I know you mean well but that's propaganda by private media. You have it backwards. Watch the video GoldenEquity posted. It's on google too."


Absolutely incorrect. Your hero is a liar, as are all socialist dictators. You have been betrayed by this "documentary." I challenge any one of you to google this phrase, "Hugo Chavez silences protestors." You will find my point vindicated, ohh.... literally about 1000 times. Media conspiracy? Hardly. Defending this man is nothing short of insanity, and I for one, cannot beleive it is happening in the Ron Paul forum, dedicated to a man who's opposition to Hugo Chavez is unquestionable and absolute.

Yes, it is wrong that the U.S. got involved. No, Hugo Chavez is not a good man, but in fact a brutal, totalitarian dictator. You simply cannot argue your way out of this hole. Look up his 49 "decrees," look up information on his Bolivarian Circle. That documentary only gets the U.S. involvement part correct, but failed miserably on critiquing Chavez for stealing people's rights and livelihood by force.

"Your hero is a liar"

Just the fact that you're spinning Chavez as my "hero" tells me a lot. lol. ... besides playing down Bush as simply a "fool" instead of the mass murder criminal he is. Many patriot Americans are trying hard to get Bush impeached for this. Most the world thinks Bush is a war criminal. Does world opinion think that about Chavez?

The real hero's, whom I respect, are the PEOPLE whom had the nerve to revolt when a coup tried to take over and kidnap their beloved president, destroy their congress, supreme court, and constitution.

The people clearly wanted Chavez back. Have you asked why they would want a "brutal, totalitarian dictator" back as their leader? You'd think that wouldn't make sense to somebody IF Chavez was really "a brutal, totalitarian dictator." Pure logic can't make one buy into that.

Us outside the matrix are screaming for you to take the red pill! ;-)

Why don't you read an article about Chavez's "censorship" here:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=2044

My suggestion is to get out of the U.S. main-stream media spin-box, and look to other news sources that are more unbiased.