“The Truth About Vaccines”

[angelatc]

The children weren't randomly selected because the group of vaccinated children isn't the same as the unvaccinated children. In our world that's upside down such an argument would mean that it is impossible to compare a group of vaccinated to unvaccinated children...
This doesn't mean that the trial was "unscientific"; we can read in the report how they did the research...

It isn't research. It's a survey.

 

[AZJoe]

 

[Firestarter]

For some reason I think this is a good moment to revive this thread and I’ve found an interesting list to add.

A “top 10” reasons to never take a vaccine: http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/never-take-a-vaccine-top-10/
1 - Toxic Ingredients – Formaldehyde, MSG, Antibiotics, GMOs, Polysorbate, Mercury, Squalene and More
2 - Toxic Adjuvants – Aluminum
3 - Hidden Ingredients – Immunity-Destroying Nagalese
4 - Injection of Human and Animal Cells
5 - Blood Sludge, Hypoxia, Ischemia and Localized “Strokes” in Your Body
6 - The Herd Immunity Myth Busted
7 - Viral Shedding
8 - Possible Side Effects of Paralysis and Death
9 - Insufficient Legal Recourse
10 - The Vaccine-Sterilization-Depopulation Connection

I've learned that Mahatma Gandhi was an anti-vaxxer...
Pro-vaxxers wouldn't call this lies, would they?

 

[Zippyjuan]

For some reason I think this is a good moment to revive this thread and I’ve found an interesting list to add.

A “top 10” reasons to never take a vaccine: http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/never-take-a-vaccine-top-10/
1 - Toxic Ingredients – Formaldehyde, MSG, Antibiotics, GMOs, Polysorbate, Mercury, Squalene and More
2 - Toxic Adjuvants – Aluminum
3 - Hidden Ingredients – Immunity-Destroying Nagalese
4 - Injection of Human and Animal Cells
5 - Blood Sludge, Hypoxia, Ischemia and Localized “Strokes” in Your Body
6 - The Herd Immunity Myth Busted
7 - Viral Shedding
8 - Possible Side Effects of Paralysis and Death
9 - Insufficient Legal Recourse
10 - The Vaccine-Sterilization-Depopulation Connection

I've learned that Mahatma Gandhi was an anti-vaxxer...
Pro-vaxxers wouldn't call this lies, would they?

1) formaldehyde- a few molecules remain from cleaning equipment. Your own cells produce formaldehyde- it isn't going to hurt you.
MSG- not in vaccines
GMOs- not in vaccines
Antibiotics- not in vaccines
Polysorbate- also used in ice cream. One ice cream serving (8 ounces) contains 170,000 micrograms. It is also in the HPV vaccine- 50 micrograms which is an insignificant amount.
Mercury- removed from vaccines intended for children. The multi- use flu vaccine still has some but you can request a mercury free single use version if you are concerned
Squalene- that is the oil in your fingerprints. If that is dangerous, please do not touch anything you intend to eat. It is sold in health food stores as a beneficial supplement.

All of these are in insignificant amounts.

 

[angelatc]

For some reason I think this is a good moment to revive this thread and I’ve found an interesting list to add.

A “top 10” reasons to never take a vaccine: http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/never-take-a-vaccine-top-10/
1 - Toxic Ingredients – Formaldehyde, MSG, Antibiotics, GMOs, Polysorbate, Mercury, Squalene and More
2 - Toxic Adjuvants – Aluminum
3 - Hidden Ingredients – Immunity-Destroying Nagalese
4 - Injection of Human and Animal Cells
5 - Blood Sludge, Hypoxia, Ischemia and Localized “Strokes” in Your Body
6 - The Herd Immunity Myth Busted
7 - Viral Shedding
8 - Possible Side Effects of Paralysis and Death
9 - Insufficient Legal Recourse
10 - The Vaccine-Sterilization-Depopulation Connection

I've learned that Mahatma Gandhi was an anti-vaxxer...
Pro-vaxxers wouldn't call this lies, would they?

Considering that it's all pretty blatantly wrong, yes. This is a pretty good example of the lies that anti-vaxxers tell. The person who created the list clearly isn't interested in facts.

Speaking of facts:

Consider the numbers around vaccines, though. Often, something like 1 in 1,000 kids experience moderate side effects such as prolonged crying. For more severe side effects, such as seizures or that rotavirus-caused bowel blockage, the odds go down to one in tens of thousands.

Among children who contract measles, one in 1,000 get encephalitis, an acute brain infection, and one or two in 1,000 die. In 2011, among the 18,000 Americans who got whooping cough that year, more than 1 in 2,000 died, all of them babies.

 

[Firestarter]

One of the many lies the pharmaceutical industry tells us, is that there is “scientific evidence” that vaccines prevent diseases.

There has never been a proper placebo controlled study to prove the efficacy of vaccines. Ironically pro-vaxxers in turn claim that it would be “unethical” to demand a study comparing placebo to vaccines.
Also disgusting is the practice of inverting the “burden of proof”. According to the state media anti-vaxxers have the “burden of proof” to show that vaccines cause serious harm, while "scientifically" speaking the pharmaceutical industry should provide the “scientific” evidence for the efficacy of vaccines first.
See for example the following video, in which Colleen Boyle of the CDC admits to Rep. Posey, that there has not been a placebo study that compares vaccinated to unvaccinated.


Here’s more evidence that vaccines cause harm: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/07/no_author/hiding-vaccine-related-deaths/

Although experts are less willing to openly disclose the fact that adverse reactions can and do include death, one has only to look at reports to the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to see that mortality is a possible outcome. From 1990 through 2010, for example, VAERS received 1,881 reports of infant deaths following vaccination, representing a 4.8% mortality rate.

See tables 2, 3 and 4 from the report in the last link with the hospitalisation and mortality rate as recorded in VAERS: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0960327112440111

In the 1970s and 1980s, a relatively large amount of money was paid out to the (parents of) victims of the pertussis component in vaccines, which caused permanent brain damage in rare cases (pertussis vaccine encephalopathy).
Ronald Reagan playing the role of US President for real, had the “National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act” passed, that effectively restricted compensation for the damage of vaccines. If I understand correctly, part of this was the VAERS database.
The state media have since claimed that the evidence that was convincing enough in the courtroom, is “junk science”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injury_Act

Speaking of facts:

According to the state media, the vaccines didn’t cause the brain damage, because the children supposedly would have gotten this brain damage anyhow, and the vaccines only made this happen sooner. This claim by the state media sounds like “junk science” to me…
I haven’t found a good article on the effects of pertussis, which these days is still a part of DPT vaccines.

 

[angelatc]

One of the many lies the pharmaceutical industry tells us, is that there is “scientific evidence” that vaccines prevent diseases.

There is scientific evidence that vaccines prevent diseases, because there is evidence that people who are vaccinated are less likely to contract the disease than those who aren't. There is also evidence that when the vaccination rates within a population reach a certain level, the disease will wane. For examples - measles is pretty much eradicated in the US, with the only outbreaks being traced back to carriers who visited nations where the disease is still not contained.

As explained over and over, the "evidence" the anti vaxxers are demanding is the type of test Nazis would do. Intentionally exposing anybody, much less unprotected children, to diseases is at the least unethical. At worst, it's evil. As are the people who continue to insist that these tests should be run.

 

[angelatc]

According to the state media, the vaccines didn’t cause the brain damage, because the children supposedly would have gotten this brain damage anyhow, and the vaccines only made this happen sooner. This claim by the state media sounds like “junk science” to me…
I haven’t found a good article on the effects of pertussis, which these days is still a part of DPT vaccines.

Strawman on top of strawman.

I suspect you've found plenty of articles on pertussis, just none that help the anti-vaxxer case. It's hard to make a case for letting infants cough themselves to death, and why some people insist on trying just baffles me.

 

[Firestarter]

As explained over and over, the "evidence" the anti vaxxers are demanding is the type of test Nazis would do. Intentionally exposing anybody, much less unprotected children, to diseases is at the least unethical. At worst, it's evil. As are the people who continue to insist that these tests should be run.

A proper placebo controlled trial of vaccines, shouldn't include exposing humans to diseases. But would involve a double-blind group in which part of the children would receive a vaccine, and others placebo.
Unfortunately the pharmaceutical industry rather uses strawman arguments to discredit the demand for proper scientific study. Now why would they?
Surely you won't mind my explanation: "they" want to hide that vaccines cause more harm than do good, while making a buck at the same time...

 

[angelatc]

A proper placebo controlled trial of vaccines, shouldn't include exposing humans to diseases. But would involve a double-blind group in which part of the children would receive a vaccine, and others placebo.

Exactly. They would have to intentionally make the unprotected children sick. It's unethical.

 

[Firestarter]

I haven’t found any “good” short story on “pertussis vaccine encephalopathy”.

The following propaganda piece by Slate has some interesting information to get an idea on what the controversy is about. Obviously I don’t agree with the conclusion that there is no correlation between encephalopathy and vaccination.
A study is mentioned “in England in the late 1970s” that “estimated as many as 1 in 140,000 children were affected by PVE”.
It is further mentioned that “at least five well-designed studies conducted between 1976 and 1994 eventually vindicated the vaccine”.

The name of these studies aren’t mentioned, nor are the results of these studies discussed, so I’m not satisfied with the groundless conclusion that “a disorder these children would have developed whether or not they were vaccinated. The fever from the vaccination may have “simply moved [the epilepsy] forward in time”.
Slate concludes that the encephalopathy is “caused by genetic disorders” (Nazis sure love to claim that “disorders” are caused by genetics…): http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...y_and_epilepsy_the_anti_vaccine_movement.html

I’ve found a much better article, but my main problem is that it’s just too long.
It shows that there have been a number of studies that show that shortly after administering vaccines, a small percentage of the children get encephalopathy. Because these effects occur both with DPT and DT (DT without Pertussis vaccine), the causal relation between the pertussis component of DPT and infantile spasms is doubtful (pertussis is whooping cough by the way).

The article is based on a huge amount of information, and I find it difficult to read: https://www.nap.edu/read/1815/chapter/5#68

The following tables 4.2 and 4.3 present information on the amount of incidences shortly after vaccination:
TABLE 4-2 Studies of Acute Neurologic Events Occurring Within 48 Hours of DPT Immunization in Defined Populations

TABLE 4-3 National Childhood Encephalopathy Study Estimated Relative Risks of Specific Acute Neurologic Conditions Following DPT Immunization Within the Previous 7 Days

I’ve searched for “scientific” reports on this topic, but most of them aren’t freely viewable on the internet.
I did find the following 2 reports.

Strom – “Further experience of reactions, (…): a study based on vaccinations in Sweden, 1959-1965” (1967): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1748773/pdf/brmedj02314-0034.pdf

Among 516,276 triple-vaccinated children in Sweden from 1959 to 1965 neurological reactions to the vaccination occurred in 167 cases-destructive encephalopathy 3, convulsions 80, hypsarrhythmia 4, shock 54, uncontrollable screaming 24, serous meningitis 2. Serous meningitis was also found in three out of nine examined cases of convulsions, and elevated protein in cerebrospinal fluid in one out of four examined cases of shock. Apart from these objective signs of meningeal involvement in certain cases, the study shows that in conjunction with both convulsions and shock there may be no or very little rise of temperature. The convulsive symptoms therefore cannot be classified as a matter of course as simple febrile convulsions.

The incidence of neurological reactions was 1: 3,600 vaccinated children (1: 3,100 if cases of persistent uncontrollable screaming are included), a rise in relation to the figure of 1: 6,000 reported in a study from the years 1954 to 1958. The rise is probably merely apparent, however, owing to the more watchful eye that is kept on these conditions. The more severe reactions leading to permanent injury seem to have decreased.

Miller et al – “Pertussis immunisation and serious acute neurological illness in children” (1981): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1679309/pdf/bmj00046-0021.pdf

CONCLUSIONS--Diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis vaccine may on rare occasions be associated with the development of severe acute neurological illnesses that can have serious sequelae. Some cases may occur by chance or have other causes. The role of pertussis vaccine as a prime or concomitant factor in the aetiology of these illnesses cannot be determined in any individual case. The balance of possible risk against known benefits from pertussis immunisation supports continued use of the vaccine.

I also found the following picture, which shows that the decline in death rate had nothing to do with vaccines, including: Measles for which a vaccine was introduced in 1963, Whooping cough (Pertussis) - vaccine 1949, and Diphtheria - vaccine 1920.

As explained over and over, the "evidence" the anti vaxxers are demanding is the type of test Nazis would do. Intentionally exposing anybody, much less unprotected children, to diseases is at the least unethical. At worst, it's evil. As are the people who continue to insist that these tests should be run.

It aren’t the “thoughtcriminals” like me that keep the Nazi-agenda going, but the state media keep spreading similar propaganda as during WW II…
There is even an obvious connection between big pharma and the Nazis – look no further than IG Farben. IG Farben was the notorious chemical company (including pharmaceutics) that was both an integral part of the Nazi-machine, and affiliated with Ford and Rockefeller…
IG Farben used 83,000 slave labourers from the largest German concentration camp, Auschwitz, and produced the controversial poison Zyklon-B. IG Farben conducted sick experiments in the part of Auschwitz it controlled - including vaccines.
John D. Rockefeller already financed eugenics experiments before WW II, including those of Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer, where “Dr” Josef Mengele already worked before his sick experiments in Auschwitz.
In 1951, IG Farben was split up. The main successor companies today are Bayer, BASF, AGFA and Sanofi: http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/...SS/history_of_the_pharmaceutical_industry.htm

Surely Angelatc is able to find a link between current day medical (mal)practice supported by the Rockefeller Foundation and Bayer, but I guess that she rather defends big pharma and vaccines that cause more harm than they do good…

 

[donnay]

[MENTION=65707]Firestarter[/MENTION] I appreciate you bringing in the history, but Angela is not interested in the history, she is only interested in the propaganda that vaccines saved us!

A good read is-- "Dr, Mary's Monkey."

Western medicine is Rockefeller medicine – all the way.

Western medicine has some good points, for sure, and is great in an emergency, but it’s high time people realized that today’s mainstream medicine (western medicine or allopathy), with its focus on drugs, radiation and surgery, is at its foundation a Rockefeller creation. The Rockefellers, of course, are one of the most rich and powerful families of the elite black nobility. Behind their spurious facade of philanthropy, they are power-hungry tyrants intent on owning the entire world, and depopulating it through eugenics-based programs like forced sterilization, water fluoridation, abortions and vaccinations. They have either majorly or fully created (and still dominate) the United Nations, the World Health Organization, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, Planned Parenthood and many, many other organizations that either rule the world or influence culture to a large extent.

Despite the dominance of western medicine nowadays, even just 100 years ago the situation was very different, so it’s worthwhile casting our minds back to how the we got to this place. How did western medicine and the giant conglomerate of multinational pharmaceutical corporations (“Big Pharma”) become the mainstream medical system in the US and other first world nations? And what alternatives are there?

Petroleum Drugs

Let’s go back in time to the late 1800s. John D. Rockefeller, a man quoted to have said “competition is sin”, is the head of the Rockefeller family and has just become very rich through extracting oil from the ground. Now he is looking for ways to capitalize even further with his oil, and he comes across the idea of using coal tar – a petroleum derivative – to make substances that affect the human mind, body and nervous system. These are called drugs, and they are excellent at masking or stopping symptoms, but overall do not cure the underlying cause of a disease.

Like other elite leaders of the New World Order who fit the description of an “evil genius” – those high on intellect and low on compassion – Rockefeller used his oil money to buy out part of the massive German pharmaceutical cartel, I.G. Farben. This was the very same cartel that would later assist Hitler to implement his eugenics-based vision of a New World Order founded on racial supremacy, by manufacturing chemicals and poisons for war. With the control of drug manufacturing under his wings, Rockefeller then embarked on a decidedly wicked plan – wicked from the point of view of a free and healthy humanity, but brilliant from a business perspective.

Destroying any Competition to Western Medicine

Rockefeller saw that there were many types of doctors and healing modalities in existence at that time, from chiropractic to naturopathy to homeopathy to holistic medicine to herbal medicine and more. He wanted to eliminate the competitors of western medicine (the only modality which would propose drugs and radiation as treatment, thus enriching Rockefeller who owned the means to produce these treatments), so he hired a man called Abraham Flexner to submit a report to Congress in 1910. This report “concluded” that there were too many doctors and medical schools in America, and that all the natural healing modalities which had existed for hundreds or thousands of years were unscientific quackery. It called for the standardization of medical education, whereby only the allopathic-based AMA be allowed to grant medical school licenses in the US.

Sadly, Congress acted upon the conclusions and made them law. Incredibly, allopathy became the standard mainstream modality, even though its 3 main methods of treatment in the 1800s had been blood-letting, surgery and the injection of toxic heavy metals like lead and mercury to supposedly displace disease! It should be noted that hemp was also demonized and criminalized not long after this, not because there is anything dangerous about it, but because it was a huge threat (as both medicine and fuel) to the Rockefeller drug and oil industries, respectively.

The Rockefeller and Carnegie Tax-Exempt Foundations for “Efficient” Philanthropy

The story doesn’t stop there. Rockefeller and another elite leader Carnegie used their tax-exempt Foundations, from 1913 on, to offer huge grants to the best medical schools all over America – on the proviso that only an allopathic-based curriculum be taught, and that some of their agents be allowed to sit on the Board of Directors. They called this “efficient” philanthropy, which, when through the Orwellian translation unit, means they wanted a return on their investment. They systematically dismantled the curricula of these schools by removing any mention of the natural healing power of herbs and plants, or of the importance of diet to health. The result is a system which to this day churns out doctors who are, almost always, utterly clueless about nutrition and disregard the idea that what you eat can actually heal or hurt you.

A couple of decades after this, another law was passed that further entrenched western medicine in America. The Hill-Burton Act of 1946 gave hospitals grants for construction and modernization, on the condition they provide free healthcare to anyone in need, without discrimination of any kind. Although there were good sides to this, the downside was that once people had become dependent on this system for their healthcare needs – especially those on pharmaceutical pills which need to be taken day after day without end – the system switched into a paid system, and the Rockefellers found themselves with new lifelong customers.

The bitter truth is that, in general, when you go to your Western doctor, you are seen as a potential market for the medical factory’s products. For Big Pharma, there is no financial incentive to heal you, because a patient cured is a customer lost. Even if you are not sick, Big Pharma is still targeting you, trying to convince you that you are ill (e.g. with psychiatry’s ridiculous list of fictitious diseases, many of them fake) so that you will try its latest pill. Pregnant women who go to the doctor are treated like this, and peddled intravenous fluid bags, fetal monitors, ultrasound (radiation for a vulnerable baby), a host of drugs, the totally unnecessary episiotomy, and – to top it all off – the Caesarean delivery!

Bio-Piracy: The Business Model of Western Medicine’s Big Pharma Cartel

Remember, all these synthetic drugs are isolates. Many are derived from plant compounds, but because Nature cannot be patented and sold, Big Pharma has no interest in natural cures. What they do instead is engage in bio-piracy – research natural compounds, copy them (or modify them slightly) in a lab, then try to steal and patent them. If they get a patent, they then market their pill as a wonder drug while simultaneously (through fake scientific research) suppress and criticize the original plant as being worthless, so you won’t go to the source of the cure. Ironically, guess what type of medicine John D. Rockefeller used and the British Royal Family still uses? Homeopathy!

Modern western medicine seems to have lost the supposed point of its existence: healing people. In his revealing book “Confessions of a Medical Heretic“, Dr. Robert Mendolsohn quotes an article entitled “Cleveland’s Marvelous Medical Factory” which boasted of the Cleveland Clinic’s “accomplishments last year: 2,980 open-heart operations, 1.3 million laboratory tests, 73,320 electrocardiograms, 7,770 full-body x-ray scans, 24,368 surgical procedures.” Seems fancy, yet none of these procedures has been proven to have anything to do with maintaining or restoring health. When people get screened for a disease, they are being subjected to dangerous radiation (more money for the Rockefellers) which harms tissue and can end up causing the exact disease it is supposed to be protecting against – as happens daily with the mammogram scam, designed to drum up new breast cancer clients.

Rockefeller Philanthropy is Social Control

The Rockefellers and other elites use philanthropy as a tool for control. It’s social engineering with a nice PR sheen. A free lunch is not really free, whether private (Rockefeller-style western medicine) or public/governmental (Obama-style socialized medicine), because even if you get something at no cost, you are required to give up your data and your privacy. They want you dependent on their system – then they’ll raise the rates once you’re trapped.

This is big business – and it’s also a big killer. Dr. Barbara Starfield published a study in the year 2000 that found that there were 225,000 iatrogenic (allopathic doctor caused) deaths in the US every year. However, this was only counting direct deaths; when you factor in all indirect deaths, as Dr. Gary Null did in 2011 in his report Death by Medicine, the figure is closer to 784,000 per year! That’s 7.8 million people dead from western medicine every 10 years!

Null concluded: “It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States …”

Whenever a lot of people die in a staged false flag attack (like 3000 people on 9/11) or in a staged mind control shooting (like 50 or so people) we hear all about it on the media. Yet between 616 and 2147 Americans are dying every day from Rockefeller Western medicine, and we don’t hear a thing!

Natural Solutions that Surpass Rockefeller-Created Western Medicine

At this point let us turn from the problem to the solutions – and fortunately there are many. The famous ancient Greek physician Hippocrates wrote:

“Nature heals. The doctor’s task consists in strengthening the natural healing powers, to direct them, and especially not to interfere with them.”
The immune system is your number one defense against any disease – not a vaccine. Most natural medicine is designed to treat the body holistically, not to “cure” one disease only to have it transform and mutate into another ailment. When you takes plants and herbs as medicine, you normally take the whole food, not an isolate, because it is based on a holistic understanding. Likewise, Traditional Chinese Medicine defines all disease as stagnation and treats sickness as an imbalance to be brought back into balance. What is the point of transferring an imbalance in one area into an imbalance in another area? None, unless you are trying to profit off disease like Big Pharma. It is not real healing.

There are so many natural cures and remedies out there, if you take the time to look. Two examples among thousands are turmeric which will do more for your blood pressure and diabetes than any drug can, and apricot kernels (rich in laetrile which selectively kills cancer cells and leaves healthy ones intact) which will handle cancer better than chemotherapy. The Gerson Therapy has also healed thousands of “terminal” cancer patients who were told by doctors of western medicine, “there’s nothing more we can do for you.”

Western medicine has its time and place, and its strengths and weaknesses. Western medicine may be a good system in a critical emergency and for complicated surgical procedures, but for general conditions, there are so many better alternatives. Time to start exploring them!

http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/western-medicine-rockefeller-medicine/

 

[angelatc]

vaccines ....cause more harm than they do good…

There's no evidence to support that contention.

And you never address a single thing I say. You just make more noise.

 

[angelatc]

I haven’t found any “good” short story on “pertussis vaccine encephalopathy”.

The following propaganda piece by Slate has some interesting information to get an idea on what the controversy is about. Obviously I don’t agree with the conclusion that there is no correlation between encephalopathy and vaccination.[/URL]

You can disagree, but that doesn't make it false. It doesn't even disprove the article.

Here is a long list of articles about Pertussis vaccine encephalopathy. The fact that you can't find anything on that that says what you want it to say should send up a big red flag that perhaps you're delusional.

It won't, but it should.

 

[AZJoe]

Vaccine Choice

· Anti vax polio bullshit has been addressed about 100 times in the past 10 years
· Memes suck and this has been addressed about 1000 times.

As "eloquent" and "logical" as the above strangely sent neg rep comments are, they miss the issue entirely. The issue is one of Freedom, and Freedom is the answer.

Who is the better decider for your health choices - government? politicians? bureaucrats? lobbyists for big pharma? or you?

If one accepts that government can forcefully inject your body whatever it decides is best for your own good or the good of "society," then by that premise government can do whatever it wants to you "for your own good" of course.

When it comes to vaccinations, as usual, Freedom is the Answer.

Yes, some vaccines are highly effective. Yet, all vaccines do not have the same effectiveness, nor for the same duration. Nor do all diseases have the same risk. Some diseases are more dangerous than others. Some vaccines more effective than others.

That still does not mean people must be mandatorily injected with any vaccines. All vaccinations should be voluntary. In a free world it is the consumer’s choice on which vaccines to take or not.

It also does not mean every vaccine is equally effective. Some are highly effective and have lifetime inoculation. Others are far less effective and for limited duration. The flu vaccine for instance is like a joke. Even the CDC’s overly optimistic promotion puts its effectiveness at less than 60% (other studies at far less) for those that get the vaccine, and then for less than a year. Other studies put the “effective” period at three months. I can do a much better job at reducing my risk of flu simply by exercising and eating healthy foods. Yet millions of people run out every year to buy flu vaccines.

Nor does it mean every vaccine is equally important. Take smallpox and polio, considered higher danger diseases. Polio had a risk of permanent handicap of 1-2% - considered high. (BTW even for high risk polio 95% of polio infection victims recover completely in less than a week). Measles, mumps, chicken pox, most flus, and many others are very low risk, a mere inconvenience for healthy individuals.

Nor does it mean every additive to every vaccine is safe. Despite what any politicians and bureaucrats and manufacturers and their lobbyists proclaim there is plenty evidence of reason to be concerned with many additives such a mercury compounds like thimerosal, or aluminum compounds, or other metals.

Nor does the fact some vaccines are highly effective and useful mean large numbers of multiple vaccines from various manufacturers should be mass administered into infants. Nor does it negate evidence that massive loading of many vaccines poses risks to some individuals, particularly during infancy.

The bottom line is it is the individual's choice. There should be NO mandatory vaccines. The government should not be involved in force vaccinating anyone. The decision to vaccinate should always be the consumer’s choice, not the politicians, government or the lobbyists.

Whether I choose to vaccinate or not vaccinate, it has zero bearing on whether another persons' vaccination provides immunization for them or not.

If you as the consumer believe that every vaccine from every manufacturer for any ailment is completely safe and absolutely necessary, and want to load your body up with every possible vaccine, by all means do so. That should be your choice in the free market.

If you as a consumer merely wish to get the vaccinations against more virulent disease, but forgo vaccines for the less dangerous diseases. Or perhaps forego those vaccines in infancy, and spread out the vaccines into toddler or adolescent age or adulthood before choosing vaccines for less serious disease, by all means do so. It is YOUR choice.

If you as the consumer wish to forego any vaccines at all, by all means do so.

More:
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/vaccination-free-will
https://mises.org/library/pox-government-vaccines

 

[donnay]

Informed choice.

 

[Created4]

As "eloquent" and "logical" as the above strangely sent neg rep comments are, they miss the issue entirely. The issue is one of Freedom, and Freedom is the answer.

Who is the better decider for your health choices - government? politicians? bureaucrats? lobbyists for big pharma? or you?

If one accepts that government can forcefully inject your body whatever it decides is best for your own good or the good of "society," then by that premise government can do whatever it wants to you "for your own good" of course.

When it comes to vaccinations, as usual, Freedom is the Answer.

Yes, some vaccines are highly effective. Yet, all vaccines do not have the same effectiveness, nor for the same duration. Nor do all diseases have the same risk. Some diseases are more dangerous than others. Some vaccines more effective than others.

That still does not mean people must be mandatorily injected with any vaccines. All vaccinations should be voluntary. In a free world it is the consumer’s choice on which vaccines to take or not.

It also does not mean every vaccine is equally effective. Some are highly effective and have lifetime inoculation. Others are far less effective and for limited duration. The flu vaccine for instance is like a joke. Even the CDC’s overly optimistic promotion puts its effectiveness at less than 60% (other studies at far less) for those that get the vaccine, and then for less than a year. Other studies put the “effective” period at three months. I can do a much better job at reducing my risk of flu simply by exercising and eating healthy foods. Yet millions of people run out every year to buy flu vaccines.

Nor does it mean every vaccine is equally important. Take smallpox and polio, considered higher danger diseases. Polio had a risk of permanent handicap of 1-2% - considered high. (BTW even for high risk polio 95% of polio infection victims recover completely in less than a week). Measles, mumps, chicken pox, most flus, and many others are very low risk, a mere inconvenience for healthy individuals.

Nor does it mean every additive to every vaccine is safe. Despite what any politicians and bureaucrats and manufacturers and their lobbyists proclaim there is plenty evidence of reason to be concerned with many additives such a mercury compounds like thimerosal, or aluminum compounds, or other metals.

Nor does the fact some vaccines are highly effective and useful mean large numbers of multiple vaccines from various manufacturers should be mass administered into infants. Nor does it negate evidence that massive loading of many vaccines poses risks to some individuals, particularly during infancy.

The bottom line is it is the individual's choice. There should be NO mandatory vaccines. The government should not be involved in force vaccinating anyone. The decision to vaccinate should always be the consumer’s choice, not the politicians, government or the lobbyists.

Whether I choose to vaccinate or not vaccinate, it has zero bearing on whether another persons' vaccination provides immunization for them or not.

If you as the consumer believe that every vaccine from every manufacturer for any ailment is completely safe and absolutely necessary, and want to load your body up with every possible vaccine, by all means do so. That should be your choice in the free market.

If you as a consumer merely wish to get the vaccinations against more virulent disease, but forgo vaccines for the less dangerous diseases. Or perhaps forego those vaccines in infancy, and spread out the vaccines into toddler or adolescent age or adulthood before choosing vaccines for less serious disease, by all means do so. It is YOUR choice.

If you as the consumer wish to forego any vaccines at all, by all means do so.

More:
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/vaccination-free-will
https://mises.org/library/pox-government-vaccines

But logical or scientific reasoning is not allowed when it comes to vaccines, haven't you figured that out by now?

Belief in vaccines is a religion.

To question vaccines is to be an apostate, even if you are a medical doctor who is pro-vaccine but wants to selectively decide which vaccines are better than others, or which of your patients might be more prone to vaccine injuries.



Medical Doctors Opposed to Forced Vaccinations – Should Their Views be Silenced?

 

[angelatc]

As "eloquent" and "logical" as the above strangely sent neg rep comments are, they miss the issue entirely. The issue is one of Freedom, and Freedom is the answer.

Your meme had nothing to do with freedom. It was smugly parroting a tired fallacy about the efficiency of vaccines that's been patiently explained about 100 times already.

People are free to choose. But they're not free to pass off absolute fabrications, like your meme, as educated enlightenment.

 

[AZJoe]

Your meme had nothing to do with freedom. It was smugly parroting a tired fallacy about the efficiency of vaccines that's been patiently explained about 100 times already. People are free to choose. But they're not free to pass off absolute fabrications, like your meme, as educated enlightenment.

And yet the meme is both 100% correct and is about freedom.
An individual's choice of whether or not to be vaccinated has zero bearing on whether another person's vaccination provides them immunization or not. That is the self-evident truth simply revealed by the meme.
The idiotic self contradiction of saying that any individual must be forcibly vaccinated with this or that pharmaceutical elixir because some statist mind hysterically fears another's lack of vaccination is directly exposed by the meme itself.

What lacks "educated enlightenment" is someone failing any logical response whatsoever, but instead resorting to childish tantrums, "Anti vax polio bull$#@!" and "memes suck", mindlessly parroting pointless non-sequiturs, "addressed about 1000 times", and then actively hunting down random posts on unrelated threads to to apply negative reputation points.

 

[Weston White]

Your meme had nothing to do with freedom. It was smugly parroting a tired fallacy about the efficiency of vaccines that's been patiently explained about 100 times already.

People are free to choose. But they're not free to pass off absolute fabrications, like your meme, as educated enlightenment.

Bollocks. Here a few memes for you though: www.anhinternational.org/2017/05/31/break-vaccine-injury-taboo/

Vaccine Court Awards Paid (www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/vicpmonthlyreporttemplate2_1_17.pdf):
...
FY 2012 249 $163,491,998.82
FY 2013 375 $254,666,326.70
FY 2014 365 $202,084,196.12
FY 2015 508 $204,137,880.22
FY 2016 689 $230,140,251.20