The Theist Hatred Of Atheists

[Kade]

Here are a couple of things, take them as you please,


Pale Blue Dot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

Pale Dot II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47EBLD-ISyc


Meaning of Life.........
http://users.aristotle.net/~diogenes/meaning1.htm

Here is one of my favorites from... "Meaning of Life."

- The World Doesn't Want to be Saved. -

The world is a teeming mishmash of cultures with a bewildering array of values and ideologies engaged in their own version of the good life. People are generally not interested in changing the metaphors through which they view the world, so real understanding between groups with conflicting viewpoints is not achievable in the short term. The good news is, that's OK, because the world isn't supposed to be saved on a global scale. It must be saved at the level of the individual. And despite the fact that the level of the individual appears to be statistically insignificant, it is in fact the most significant, because it is only at the level of the individual that a creative synthesis of conflicting metaphors can occur. Once a connection is made at the individual level, the process of spreading successful new metaphors throughout society is essential automatic if the society is ready for them. If the society is not ready, the new metaphors will not be accepted under any circumstances. So don't beat you head on a rock. Solve your own interpersonal communication problems. If the world is ready to benefit from your solutions, you will not be able to stop it from using them.

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Good stuff.

 

[Macon GA]

Kade,

Our tax money is used to promote humanism, which Christians oppose, through federally funded education. Our tax money is used to fund murder via abortion. Our tax money is given as welfare to many whose immoral lifestyles we find deplorable (laziness, sexual promiscuity, illegally entering the country, etc.). Basically, the government steals my family's money and "redistributes the wealth" so to speak. So it looks like we both have the same problem. Where do you think the government uses your tax money to "promote religion (which I am assuming is a reference to Christianity)?

I am a home educator, and my taxes fund the public school down the street, yet I can receive no tax credit for my children's curriculum or educational endeavors. There is a problem here. You think the state wants to encourage individual thinkers?

All right, don't cuss me out or anything, but how does homosexuality square away with your ideas of Natural Law? Just curious.

 

[beachmaster]

Government funds both sides which causes further divisions. Government needs to get the hell out of the way, in education as well as most other areas of society. If government doesn't fund abortions or faith based initiatives, there will be less division amongst us. But the government thrives on these divisions. And liberty suffers.

 

[Cinnaboo]

All right, don't cuss me out or anything, but how does homosexuality square away with your ideas of Natural Law? Just curious.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE&feature=related

You're welcome.

 

[Theocrat]

Simple Answers

Well I suppose that if someone was God, they MIGHT know it.

But I'll rephrase it just for you.... anyone that truly KNOWS there is or is not a God, would not know for sure that they knew this, for there would always be the possibility of deception or hallucination. The deceived do not know they are deceived.

Suppose you encountered a being that claimed to be God and had amazing powers. How would you know that it's not just an advanced alien being masquerading as a God?

Nobody has been able to demonstrate or prove to everyone else that they know for sure there is or is not a God.

That better?

Now answer me this.... would you fight for my right to not believe in your God as much as I'd fight for your right to believe in it?

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

Consider this, beachmaster. If someone was being deceived, how would that person know for sure that he or she was truly being deceived? You see, your skepticism is fundamentally flawed at the point where you refuse to be skeptical of your own skepticism.

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

 

[BillyDkid]

Theists versus atheists, false dichotomy.

The real problem is collectivists versus individualists.

I'll take all the theists allies I can find just so long as they value individualism more than forcing me into their collective religion.

And from what I've seem there are more than a few atheists who are more than willing to use government to force their views on believers.

Those kind of atheists are simply worshiping a different kind of supreme power as far as I am concerned, and I will work against them.

Why should anyone feel threatened over what an individuals personal beliefs about life, the universe, and everything are?

You are correct, but there is no denying that no group is more despised in this country than atheists. You want to become an instant pariah - just proclaim yourself to be an atheist. Like most libertarians my view is live and let live. But you know as well as I do, no one who admits to being an atheist has a prayer, so to speak, to being elected to office in this country. Folks don't care who you pray to, as long as you pray to somebody.

 

[BillyDkid]

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

Consider this, beachmaster. If someone was being deceived, how would that person know for sure that he or she was truly being deceived? You see, your skepticism is fundamentally flawed at the point where you refuse to be skeptical of your own skepticism.

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

Great, that is just great. You know, religious tolerance does mean tolerance only for what you believe. You know these things because you read it in some book that someone told you was the word of God - and that somehow trumps my right to not believe what you believe. I'm sorry, I can't accept that.

 

[Cinnaboo]

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

Consider this, beachmaster. If someone was being deceived, how would that person know for sure that he or she was truly being deceived? You see, your skepticism is fundamentally flawed at the point where you refuse to be skeptical of your own skepticism.

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

I am so fucking attracted to you.

 

[Macon GA]

Billy D Kid,

The disdain I feel for false teachers who profess to be Christians far outweighs any disdain I may have for atheists. I despise the Joel Osteens and the Rick Warrens of Christianity.... You can throw in the Benny Hinns and the John Hagees too. People who have gotten rich off the ignorance of Christians make me sick.

 

[sophocles07]

What evidence would you accept as proof of God's existence? Is there any?

Any empirical evidence would do.

The second reason you give really sums up your position. You have exalted yourself into the position of a god. You are your own ultimate authority. Your ideas and your experiences shape reality for you. You make your own rules and live by them. Evolution fits into this scheme quite nicely, and therefore is championed by you. I get it, because I used to believe that too. Every man/woman does what is "right" in their own eyes. Relativism reigns right along with her sisters humanism and pragmatism. Postmodernism at its finest....

I’m not arguing for relativism.

Oppression of women.... nah, I am a woman and would say that Christianity has done more for women than any other religion. History will corroborate this. In most Pagan and Muslim nations, woman has been cruelly sunk below her proper level in social and domestic life. Her birth has even been esteemed a calamity in some cultures, which has resulted in being placed in orphanages or killed. In other religions, woman has been denied an education, married without consent, sold by parents, refused the confidence of her husband, and in many instances doomed to the funeral pyre upon his death.

You are aware that during early Medieval times, there was actually a council held—made up of prominent Biblical scholars—on the question of whether women should actually even be considered human, right?

Roman women pre-Christianity had a fair amount of rights compared to most of the pagan—primitive, barbarian—world. Greek women were respected more than Christian women. Your experience as a woman living in a watered down, half-assed version of Christianity is not indicative of the other 90% of women over the past 2,000 years.

Wherever Christianity is felt and realized, woman is free. Christ during his sojourn on earth exalted the female sex to a consideration previously unknown.

This is a falsehood tied to a vast generalization.

All right, don't cuss me out or anything, but how does homosexuality square away with your ideas of Natural Law? Just curious.

I don’t understand what this means.

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

Consider this, beachmaster. If someone was being deceived, how would that person know for sure that he or she was truly being deceived? You see, your skepticism is fundamentally flawed at the point where you refuse to be skeptical of your own skepticism.

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

Do they let you drive cars?

Dangerous move if they do.

 

[Kade]

Kade,

Our tax money is used to promote humanism, which Christians oppose, through federally funded education. Our tax money is used to fund murder via abortion. Our tax money is given as welfare to many whose immoral lifestyles we find deplorable (laziness, sexual promiscuity, illegally entering the country, etc.). Basically, the government steals my family's money and "redistributes the wealth" so to speak. So it looks like we both have the same problem. Where do you think the government uses your tax money to "promote religion (which I am assuming is a reference to Christianity)?

I am a home educator, and my taxes fund the public school down the street, yet I can receive no tax credit for my children's curriculum or educational endeavors. There is a problem here. You think the state wants to encourage individual thinkers?

All right, don't cuss me out or anything, but how does homosexuality square away with your ideas of Natural Law? Just curious.

Each other those points are worthwhile... I'm pro-choice, but I don't think your tax money should support abortion. As for education, that is a different story... your livelihood may very well be dependent on the capacity of this countries production of informed citizens..

I don't like home schooling, I don't even agree with it... but that's me.. .in my mind it allows one person, like yourself, to contribute minimal to a fast paced growing environment of thinkers... perhaps you cannot be made to see that, and perhaps this argument is worthless, but I will take my hundreds of professors and teachers over my lifetime over one person or group who shares your version of reality...

Not to be mean, but it is very obvious from your answers that a better education would have gone a LONG way for you, I do hope that you teach your children to, at the very least, be tolerant. My tolerance came from diversity... being forced to be next to so many differing opinions... that you are just now getting these differences, and that you must defend your rationalization is a sign that society has failed you...

I went to public school not far from you, in Cobb County, GA. My education was not destructive... I was introduced to all sorts of cultures and ideas, including many people like yourself... I chose the path of an open mind...

I have to pay, not with money, but with the destruction of this great country, for every person who thinks that 12 years of home schooling and stringent intolerant education is better than a diverse education. The best I can offer is that people who disagree get involved with their local school systems... this country can't afford ignorance.

 

[beachmaster]

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

No, he reveals himself to mankind through MY word... I am God. My words therefore are the Word of God. Who are you to dispute that?

Consider this, beachmaster. If someone was being deceived, how would that person know for sure that he or she was truly being deceived? You see, your skepticism is fundamentally flawed at the point where you refuse to be skeptical of your own skepticism.

You miss your own point. How would they know for sure if they were being deceived if in fact they were being deceived? THEY WOULDN'T! Don't you get that?

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

And you support Ron Paul? He is for freedom... including freedom to worship or believe, not worship or disbelieve. You must have come to the wrong forum my friend. I think you meant to sign up for the Huck's Army forum.

 

[Macon GA]

Come on..... How does homosexuality fit in to the Evolutionary Scheme? Are you saying that there are animals in nature that only prefer to "mate" with the same sex? Animals that are "attracted" to the same sex exclusively.

No way....

 

[Kade]

Billy D Kid,

The disdain I feel for false teachers who profess to be Christians far outweighs any disdain I may have for atheists. I despise the Joel Osteens and the Rick Warrens of Christianity.... You can throw in the Benny Hinns and the John Hagees too. People who have gotten rich off the ignorance of Christians make me sick.

That is an admirable sentiment... I wish you would spread that message...

 

[beachmaster]

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

If you buy the Old Testament, you'd better reconsider trusting Jesus, the Prince of Peace, the Son of Man!

Psalm 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

 

[Kade]

Yes, I know absolutely that there is a God. He revealed Himself to mankind through the Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments.

Consider this, beachmaster. If someone was being deceived, how would that person know for sure that he or she was truly being deceived? You see, your skepticism is fundamentally flawed at the point where you refuse to be skeptical of your own skepticism.

For The Loss. You could benefit from a serious discussion with some open minded people... a nice coffee shop somewhere, ...just relax sit down, and discuss some philosophy...

This kind of drivel my friend is unacceptable... people don't believe me when I tell them that people like you exist...especially up here in the North. I'm from the South, I've seen it first hand, and I have to explain to them that there is in fact an extremist insane branch of religion growing in this country...and you sir, are about a half-pence away from Phelps and Jeffs.

I wish I could explain this stuff better, but I blame myself for not making it all too clear... your understanding of human deception might be better answered by literature...

I suggest these two great studies and works:

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Queen-Evolution-Human-Nature/dp/0060556579

http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Desire-Strategies-Human-Mating/dp/0465021433


Both explain the power of human evolution in the game of deception, as it relates to sexual selection. It is our desire to reproduce that has made us an innate "lie detectors"....

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

This is just batshit. You have yet to just sit back for a second and explain how the fact that the WORD explains GOD and GOD explains the WORD is not circular...

The logic you apply can refer to anything... any piece of paper, hell... it could apply to a carton of milk that declares itself the "Best Milk in the World"

Why do you ask, because it said so... Your asking us to believe that the source of your authority is legitimate based on the fact that the source itself claims that authority... it's just not right man...

Using hellfire to scare people into believing is just dishonest and sickening. You can always tell a person's heart by what they believe and how they believe...

You notice that no believer claims they are going to be punished... frankly, any creator that creates life only to punish it severely for the crime of not believing is not worth a lick of salt.

 

[Macon GA]

Oh Kade..... how would you even know what kind of education I have had....

I am a product of public education. I graduated from a State University Magna Cum Laude and have also enjoyed graduate school while maintaining a 4.0.

It is obvious that you don't even begin to have an inkling of an idea as to what constitutes homeschooling. My oldest child scored post high school on standardized tests while in the 6th grade. My other two children consistently score 2, 3, or 4 grades higher than their public school counterparts based on standardized testing. I have an 8 year old who plays Vivaldi Concertos on her tiny viola. My other two are the youngest children to ever obtain membership in Mercer University's Youth Orchestra. Both are able to play college level pieces on their violins, although they are only 11 and 12.

Compared to your average public school child.... I think we are doing o.k.

For the record, I am not the only person who contributes to my children's education. They take classes with college professors as well as others who have tremendously advanced their education.

Send your children to public school if you so choose. I opted out. Been there and done that... both as a student and as a teacher. I was not impressed.

 

[Cinnaboo]

Come on..... How does homosexuality fit in to the Evolutionary Scheme? Are you saying that there are animals in nature that only prefer to "mate" with the same sex? Animals that are "attracted" to the same sex exclusively.

No way....

Evolution has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make.

I'm saying that it occurs in nature. So you can't argue that it's a strictly human phenomenon, brought on by confusion and the misdirected introspection of boys who didn't sign up for little league.

 

[sophocles07]

No, I would not fight for your "right" to not believe in God because you have no right to disbelieve Him. Rights come from God, so how can He give anyone a right to deny His existence, especially when those rights are contingent upon our obedience to Him? God has made it clear in His word that all men should believe on Him by means of His gospel. Those who reject His generous offer of salvation will face an eternal penalty. It's just as simple as that, beachmaster.

When you say this, are we even talking about “rights”? Because it is obvious God, assuming his existence, has given the “right” to disagree. At least in life. As evidenced by the myriad of atheists and agnostics and non-Christians.

And if you are punished in the afterlife for not believing, why do we need to set up civic orders based in his “laws”?

Come on..... How does homosexuality fit in to the Evolutionary Scheme? Are you saying that there are animals in nature that only prefer to "mate" with the same sex? Animals that are "attracted" to the same sex exclusively.

There are several species which have homosexual relations. You can search this on google and probably get an easy list for you, “teacher.”

And I still don’t understand what you mean by “fit in to the Evolutionary Scheme”.

The fact that sexual relations takes place without procreation—just as in masturbation, oral and (heterosexual) anal sex—does not mean it is “a proof” against evolution. It simply shows that humans find sexual stimulation extremely pleasing, which is also an evolutionary trait—sex being pleasurable obviously causing the desire to perform the act which results in procreation.

 

[Kade]

Oh Kade..... how would you even know what kind of education I have had....

I am a product of public education. I graduated from a State University Magna Cum Laude and have also enjoyed graduate school while maintaining a 4.0.

It is obvious that you don't even begin to have an inkling of an idea as to what constitutes homeschooling. My oldest child scored post high school on standardized tests while in the 6th grade. My other two children consistently score 2, 3, or 4 grades higher than their public school counterparts based on standardized testing. I have an 8 year old who plays Vivaldi Concertos on her tiny viola. My other two are the youngest children to ever obtain membership in Mercer University's Youth Orchestra. Both are able to play college level pieces on their violins, although they are only 11 and 12.

Compared to your average public school child.... I think we are doing o.k.

For the record, I am not the only person who contributes to my children's education. They take classes with college professors as well as others who have tremendously advanced their education.

Send your children to public school if you so choose. I opted out. Been there and done that... both as a student and as a teacher. I was not impressed.

Fair. Scores on standardized tests are not impressive to me... I worry about what they might be inoculated against... to be honest. The state of public education in general right now is nothing to celebrate... but I have my feelings about that separate... your children sound wonderful and I hope they do well, rather, I know they will. All I can ask, or beg, is that they maintain some openness.. don't send them out in the world hating others... please.

I do take offense to creationism being taught as science, because it is not... I can back this up for pages if you like.