The Theist Hatred Of Atheists

[adara7537]

Hey I have a question that maybe one of you religious people can help me with.

Can anybody direct me to historical and/or archaeological proof of Jesus' existence WHILE he was alive. And do not give me scriptures, that doesn't count. I can't find any and I have been looking for a while.

 

[sophocles07]

How do you know that nobody knows, beachmaster?

What are you asserting here?

That you know?

 

[Macon GA]

adara....

Our entire calendar is based on Jesus. B.C. (Before Christ) and A.D. (Anno Domini, In the Year of Our Lord).

Just my first random thought....

 

[Macon GA]

Atheists are not neutral. Neutrality is a myth. Facts are inseparable from their interpretation and cannot stand alone. When men or women reason about facts, they can only understand them in terms of a broad, unified whole or system. Without this, facts are meaningless. Men/Women cannot live, reason nor deal with truth apart from presuppositions. With no presuppositions, attempts to reason would take place in a vacuum.

Here is an evolutionist admitting such:

"Ruse, a professor of zoology and philosophy of science at the University of Guelph in Ontario, Canada, was a key speaker at a seminar convened to debunk "The New Creationism." Ruse had specifically been asked to "refute Phillip Johnson's book, Darwin on Trial." (Intervarsity Press, 1991.) Instead, he shocked his colleagues by endorsing one of its key points: that Darwinian doctrines are ultimately based as much on "philosophical assumptions" as on scientific evidence.
Assuring his audience, 'I'm no less of an evolutionist now than I ever was,' Ruse nevertheless explained that he had given fresh consideration to Johnson's thesis that Ruse himself, as 'an evolutionist, is metaphysically based at some level just as much as . . . some creationist. . . . I must confess, in the ten years since I . . . appeared in the Creationism Trial in Arkansas . . . I've been coming to this kind of position myself.'"

Sophocles stated:
"The basis of an atheist's belief that there is no god is firstly, lack of evidence, and secondly: the inconsistency of the concept of a god with his or her other ideas and experiences."

What evidence would you accept as proof of God's existence? Is there any?

The second reason you give really sums up your position. You have exalted yourself into the position of a god. You are your own ultimate authority. Your ideas and your experiences shape reality for you. You make your own rules and live by them. Evolution fits into this scheme quite nicely, and therefore is championed by you. I get it, because I used to believe that too. Every man/woman does what is "right" in their own eyes. Relativism reigns right along with her sisters humanism and pragmatism. Postmodernism at its finest....

One more thing.... Christians are not known for "stoning children," "killing infidels," or "oppressing women."

No children were stoned. Incorrigible youths, perhaps, but no children. Which do you think would be greater, the number of deaths via stoning in the Old Testament, or the number of babies murdered by their mothers via abortion?

I am not sure what you were referencing when you stated "killing infidels." I need some clarification.

Oppression of women.... nah, I am a woman and would say that Christianity has done more for women than any other religion. History will corroborate this. In most Pagan and Muslim nations, woman has been cruelly sunk below her proper level in social and domestic life. Her birth has even been esteemed a calamity in some cultures, which has resulted in being placed in orphanages or killed. In other religions, woman has been denied an education, married without consent, sold by parents, refused the confidence of her husband, and in many instances doomed to the funeral pyre upon his death.

Wherever Christianity is felt and realized, woman is free. Christ during his sojourn on earth exalted the female sex to a consideration previously unknown. He admitted them to His presence, conversed familiarly with them, accepted their tokens of gratitude, affection and devotedness. He even manifested Himself as the risen Savior to a woman first.

No oppression here.

 

[UKObserver]

Oppression of women.... nah, I am a woman and would say that Christianity has done more for women than any other religion. History will corroborate this. In most Pagan and Muslim nations, woman has been cruelly sunk below her proper level in social and domestic life. Her birth has even been esteemed a calamity in some cultures, which has resulted in being placed in orphanages or killed.

I would agree with you that in many Muslim countries women are not treated properly, but I think it important to make a distinction between what people practise and what their religion says. I don't judge Christianity based on Bush's foreign policy or Hinduism based on the number of abortions of female foetuses in India.

 

[beachmaster]

What are you asserting here?

That you know?

If you'll read several of my previous posts, I have said over and over that I don't know anything absolutely (100%) except that I AM. I operate on probabilities. I am solid agnostic through and through.

I said:

Nobody has been able to demonstrate or prove to everyone else that they know for sure there is or is not a God.

I'll stand by that. If you have information to the contrary that is conclusive, I'll amend my statement.

 

[Kade]

Beachmaster....don't leave.

Kade,

I just returned home and have perused the article, but not read it word for word. I am in the process of making dinner. I can't blend Evolution and Christianity. They simply won't mix.

Has it ever struck you as strange that not one transitional fossil has ever been found? If this process was going on for millions and millions of years, why can't we find one?

Do you see any species today that are in a transitional phase?

Also, what about the first law of thermodynamics? The whole entropy thing?

Just some random thoughts. Got to run.

Thousands of "transitional" fossils have been found...

Consider that every time we find a link between two species, creationists resort to asking for TWO new links between them!

For instance... A -------------------------- E

Let's say we find C Species... it fits nicely in between A and E.

A-----------C----------E

Now, a creationist then asks for TWO missing links, between A and C, and C and E....

The problem is that fossils are extraordinarily rare as it is... the sheer fact that we have complete lineages of entire species, like the Horse, is amazing! There no way to expect that we will find a fossil of every single genetic change in transition to a new species... fossils are just too rare... but this is not the only bit of evidence... besides a plethora of dating techniques and near flawless predictions in what would be found... we also have mitochondrial DNA testing.

 

[Kade]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_habilis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-magnon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

Progressively advanced primates, our supposed ancestors. Fossils of each species were found. This is a factual, corroborated example of our transition from a long-limbed toolmaker to an upright, comparatively hairless, abstract thinking species.

Your skepticism about current, observable transition is a little silly considering the unintelligible amounts of time we're dealing with. Anatomically modern humans appear in the fossil record in Africa about 130,000 years ago. But humans only started documenting history at 3200 BC. We're a speck on the timeline of our own species, which doesn't leave us much of a vantage point for observing evolution. Then consider how long we've known enough about the theory of evolution to even recognize an example, less than a century.

The most convincing living evidence is probably atavisms. Sometimes a species will have a remnant of its ancestry in its DNA. It could be from what that species once was, or drunken breeding with a transitional creature who took a different evolutionary route.

Fortunately, this dolphin was captured and studied, unable to spread its ungodly ambitions. Harboring, feeding, or protecting a land-dolphin is punishable under international law. Report them immediately.




Yes and yes and no and yes.

Scientists have created cells (as in something with a cell wall) from inorganic elements in experimental conditions designed to simulate the conditions of possible genesis locations, such as very hot crevices in the ocean floor.

We have never created a self-replicating cell from inorganic matter.

Great post. I tear up when I see that there are still thinking men and women in this country. =)

 

[Kade]

adara....

Our entire calendar is based on Jesus. B.C. (Before Christ) and A.D. (Anno Domini, In the Year of Our Lord).

Just my first random thought....

To be honest Macon, scientists use C.E. and B.C.E.

Common Era and Before Common Era.

Richard Leakey:
Of the several dozen specimens that have been said at one time or another to belong to this species [Homo habilis], at least half probably don’t. But there is no consensus as to which 50 percent should be excluded. No one anthropologist’s 50 percent is quite the same as another’s.

Milford Wolpoff....

Lubenow, "Recovery of Neandertal mtDNA: An Evaluation."

Surely, Cinaboo, you would agree with me when I say that Evolution is promoted as fact and not just theory. Turn on Animal Planet or National Georgraphic and my point is proved. Attend any biology lecture at most Universities. Evolution has been accepted as fact without hard evidence. Evolution can not be described as a Scientific law because it is unobservable and nobody was present when the first slime oozed out of a primordial sea, nor can it be replicated in the laboratory. How then is it science? This may be due to my "gross misunderstanding" of science, but I fail to see how evolution is "proven."

The most basic aspects of evolution are fact...I can't imagine turning on National Geographic and seeing a lecture on how god created the cheetah's ability to run, stalk, and destroy life flawlessly for his own enjoyment...

Announcer: "Observe the cheetah in its natural environment. Perfect crafter by a god's hand, his genetic makeup, less than perfect because of the rampant inbreeding... regardless, the sheer amount of obvious proof to the perfected creation of this magnificent killer is overwhelming. Observe the tools used, left by this god... dirt, wind, and a puddle of water... Magnificent."

 

[beachmaster]

Originally Posted by sophocles07 View Post
What are you asserting here?

That you know?

Sorry, I see that you had directed that to the prior poster.

I honestly would LOVE to meet the person who can demonstrate beyond any shadow of a doubt that they know the truth about God, whether there is a God or Gods, if that God (assuming existence of which is true) is the one of the Bible, the Koran, some other holy scriptures, or is a god (or gods) not previously identified by humankind... what that god (or gods) wants from us if anything, and whether or not there is an afterlife, heaven, hell, nothingness, etc.

I really would like the answers to these questions. I seriously doubt I'll get them any time soon.

Now then, what will we do to free ourselves from the tyranny of man?

 

[Shellshock1918]

Great article.

Its not that I hate atheists, I just hate know-it-all atheists who think it is their duty to tell me what to believe.

 

[Mach]

Random thoughts....

Here are a couple of things, take them as you please,


Pale Blue Dot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

Pale Dot II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47EBLD-ISyc


Meaning of Life.........
http://users.aristotle.net/~diogenes/meaning1.htm

Here is one of my favorites from... "Meaning of Life."

- The World Doesn't Want to be Saved. -

The world is a teeming mishmash of cultures with a bewildering array of values and ideologies engaged in their own version of the good life. People are generally not interested in changing the metaphors through which they view the world, so real understanding between groups with conflicting viewpoints is not achievable in the short term. The good news is, that's OK, because the world isn't supposed to be saved on a global scale. It must be saved at the level of the individual. And despite the fact that the level of the individual appears to be statistically insignificant, it is in fact the most significant, because it is only at the level of the individual that a creative synthesis of conflicting metaphors can occur. Once a connection is made at the individual level, the process of spreading successful new metaphors throughout society is essential automatic if the society is ready for them. If the society is not ready, the new metaphors will not be accepted under any circumstances. So don't beat you head on a rock. Solve your own interpersonal communication problems. If the world is ready to benefit from your solutions, you will not be able to stop it from using them.

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[Laughingcow]

"Actully, the communists do."

Thanks for pointing this out again, Laughingcow. Check out my response to it back on page four or 5ive. Maybe I should have said "Western history..."!

Yes, the commies are ruthless bastards that hate god and religion. It has nothing to do with the scam nature of many religions, people like the red Chinese are just evil. (sarcasm detectors on, please) Never mind that they've been in the civilization business for about ten times as long as we have. As far as I know, there aren't any piled up Christian bodies...as I've asked before, is there any evidence you can link me to that validates the claim that communists kill Christians on a regular basis simply for being Christian? Did the Soviets do this? I am aware of churches being outlawed and shut down, but not of any holocaust of god-believers.

But, yeah ya got me and ya got me good. Now, these evil atheist countries have supressed god and stifled his representatives. What has god done to smite them? Give them our jobs?

I'm not much for ruthless dictatorships, but if all men are equal, then so are all cultures. The Russians and the Chinese have been around and will stay around, apparently without the "necessity" of religion. You can say that communism supressed religion, but there wasn't any bloody war over it. Anyone can have a "relationship with god", it doesn't take a church, so any true believer would have went silent under the oppression, yet would have kept his heart aware.

Communism is not really a form of government so much as it is an economic system, one that tends to leave a lot of power in a very few hands. What should be said is that after they were put in power by popular revolutions, atheist communist dictators shut down religion in places like Russia and China, and no one complained much. I'm sure there are stories of priests and monks tortured to death by evil communists (please link me) but I don't think we are speaking of anything approaching the sort of wholesale genocide found in such western historical bygones as The Crusades, Manifest Destiny, or the Nazi exterminations.

Our current cultural excursions by force are tainted with the bitterness of Jews and Christians occupying and fighting Muslims. By some estimates, our sanctions and wars against Iraq have killed more than a million Iraqis. That's a million Muslims who died because of the militaristic meddlings of a "Christian nation". Compare this to communist suppression of religion, and a little Tibetian knock-down doesn't seem so awful.

Okay, don't get me wrong, I'm not apolgozing for despots. Freedom means y'all can believe whatever you wish. It does not, however, mean you should be allowed to proceed with a scam...and that, as I understand it, is part of the reasoning behind the shutdown of religion in communist countries. I don't think communists are inherently evil, and I don't think they are worried much about religion usurping their power, and I pretty much know they are not actively engaged in any war with the religious. They just want a peaceful culture, like anyone else. As atheists, they see that religion can lead to stupid shit like suicide bombs and abortion clinic shoot 'em ups. Yep, they probably go a bit overboard sometimes in denouncing it, but there aren't exactly hoardes of believers out there protesting about it, either. I imagine it's a bit like the drug war over here...it doesn't really stop anyone from doing what they really want to do if they really want to do it.

But, yeah, I misspoke. If it's a choice between the stake or the rack, I'll take the rack...

From what I've read Hitler killed more Christians than Jews.
There is plenty of documented evidence that communist countries have persecuted and killed not only Christians, but other faiths as well. Christians in China died side by side with Muslims and Bhuddists. I don't need to give you any links, you need to go out and do your own research. What you said is ignorant and offensive. Ignorance is a choice, do something about it.

 

[beachmaster]

From what I've read Hitler killed more Christians than Jews.
There is plenty of documented evidence that communist countries have persecuted and killed not only Christians, but other faiths as well. Christians in China died side by side with Muslims and Bhuddists. I don't need to give you any links, you need to go out and do your own research. What you said is ignorant and offensive. Ignorance is a choice, do something about it.

True that Christians are not alone in being persecuted. All religions at one time or another undergo severe persecution, maybe with the exception of Catholics (who did a lot of persecuting themselves in times past).

Each religion that gets persecuted seems to think that the persecution validates their cause and justify their belief system. I don't see it that way however. It's unfortunate that they get persecuted, but it doesn't mean that each of their beliefs (which contradict one another) are true.

 

[Laughingcow]

True that Christians are not alone in being persecuted. All religions at one time or another undergo severe persecution, maybe with the exception of Catholics (who did a lot of persecuting themselves in times past).

Each religion that gets persecuted seems to think that the persecution validates their cause and justify their belief system. I don't see it that way however. It's unfortunate that they get persecuted, but it doesn't mean that each of their beliefs (which contradict one another) are true.

You right. There are peacable ways to convey your beliefs. My cousin is over in China right now risking her life to do so. The true heros are the ones who prove their faith by putting their life on the line to share themselves with others. I hope one day God gives me that opportunity, though is scares me to no end. I need to finish learning Arabic so I can prove my faith.

Fox's book of martyrs shows the persecution of Christians by the Catholic church, that was not an easy read.

 

[HazardPerry]

This thread is going places.

 

[beachmaster]

Fox's book of martyrs shows the persecution of Christians by the Catholic church, that was not an easy read.

I read that a long time ago and yes, it's very disturbing what mankind can do to mankind in the name of religion (as well as other ideals or philosophies). I'd like to be a part of a great awakening of humanity whereby we can all agree to disagree on our religious beliefs and philosophies and live in peace and harmony. I have little hope in that ever happening based on the history I've studied however. Still, it's a worthy dream.

 

[beachmaster]

This thread is going places.

I'd like to think that the Ron Paul Revolution could be a conduit for peaceful coexistence. This thread give some indications of whether or not that will happen. I know that Ron Paul himself would be for peaceful coexistence among the different faiths and cultures of the world. I just hope enough people can see that and act in accordance.

 

[Laughingcow]

This thread is going places.

I have an english copy of the Koran, but I haven't read much of it yet. I do want learn standard Arabic so that I can read it in its original text. I have found that Muslims in the Middle East tend to respect people more that can read and understand the Koran in Arabic. I also have learned that most Muslims are ok with the new testament and hold Jesus in high regard. I have a lot of respect for Muslims and I want to share my faith with them and learn more about theirs.

 

[Kade]

Its not that I hate atheists, I just hate know-it-all atheists who think it is their duty to tell me what to believe.

Kettle, black?

The whole point is that theists are using the government to promote their religion... using my tax money to promote religion is against my conscience... I don't care what you believe... but when you try to force laws based on your religion only, ie, homosexuality, stem cell, abortion... I've had enough.