The Theist Hatred Of Atheists

[wv@SC]

THIS THREAD IS DOTHING VIRTUALLY NOTHING PRODUCTIVE!
I definitely have a side in this argument, but we are not accomplishing anything through a discussion of it.
Calling a MODERATOR TO END THIS FRUITLESS THREAD!

 

[HazardPerry]

THIS THREAD IS DOTHING VIRTUALLY NOTHING PRODUCTIVE!
I definitely have a side in this argument, but we are not accomplishing anything through a discussion of it.
Calling a MODERATOR TO END THIS FRUITLESS THREAD!

I'm shakin' it boss, I'm shakin' it!

 

[JenaS62]

I don't hate "atheists," but I do hate "atheism." In my opinion, it is the most irrational, dangerous, diabolical, contradictory, and foolish theories that mankind has ever formulated as a philosophy and view of the world. Therefore, I, as a Christian theist, will continue to seek its destruction until it is eradicated from the world as a system of thought and lifestyle.

In passing, I would say that "atheists" hate theists more than theists hate them because "atheists" love sin and hate God, by nature. One can only think of the Christian hate speeches of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris, as international spokesman of "atheism." If you want to witness hatred and aggression as you've never seen in a human being, just read any of their works or listen to their speeches. It will definitely send chills up your spine and make your blood boil. It's just too bad these guys will have to face an angry and righteous God on Judgment Day to give an account of their perpetual hate, aggression, and ridicule towards God's people (unless they turn from their wicked ways and believe in the truth of God's revelation).

Anyway, for me, "atheists" aren't the problem because they are made in the image and likeness of their Creator, though they daily refuse to acknowledge Him as such. It's "atheism" that's the problem, and as I've said before, I will work diligently to bring its demise to the human race as long as the living God blesses me with breath in my body and His Spirit in my soul. Having said that, I try hard to love "atheists" as my neighbors on God's earth, though I fail to do that at times, I admit.

So much for "atheists" trying to attain peace in the world. As long as theists exist, you will never have peace because your "atheism" will be a threat to us. Oh, what will you do?

Wow. I was just quietly viewing this thread until I got to this post. Please tell us how atheist or atheism is a threat to you? Have atheist infiltrated your brain to remove any beliefs in a god? Have atheist burned down your churches or banned your bibles? I am agnostic - which means I do not believe that you can prove to me that god exists. I do not feel the presence of a god. I do not see any good works of a god. Based on the human condition, I am even less apt to believe. And now you say that we atheists/agnostics will never have peace because we are a threat to you? Maybe you're the problem. As John Lennon wrote in the song "Imagine" Imagine there's no religion. Without religion, most wars on earth would cease. People could actually love each other instead of arguing over whose god is better. Religion kills. End of story.

 

[JenaS62]

Just a couple hundred years ago, atheists were shunned, banished, imprisoned, and executed for "heresy" by Christians and other religions. I suppose it still goes on today in some parts of the world. Is there one instance in history where a group of atheists got together to destroy the religious? No? Not yet? Well, keep doing the stupid shit you do that endangers all of us, and that could change. You want Armageddon? I want to stop you from wanting Armageddon, because a self-fulfilling prophecy is just that...fulfilled by men, not gods.

To me, irrational thinkers are a threat, especially when they hold positions of power. How much of this goofy war has to do with Bush's strange obsession with his re-born faith, and Israel's insistance that "god gave them" some land? In fact, this ain't nothing but a religious war...we've spent way more than what it is worth just for the resources. The Iraqi parlament wear mostly suits and ties now. Did we tell them to dress like us or else? The Jews and Christians are out to destroy the Muslims, plain and simple...if we had atheist leaders, this would not be happening.

The religious, who run everything, have every office in the land, and whose organizations get tax-free status, claim "persecution" whenever they are criticised. It's called being a "sociopath"...nothing is out of the question or unforgivable so long as they get what they want...so really, it's not too far out of line for someone to hate them. As for hating "god", that would be like hating the Tooth Fairy.

Wake up. The world is in pain. You are not helping, preacher.

Bravo!!

 

[A rope leash]

Thanks, I'll be here all weekend...g'night, everybody!

I'll take a bow, Jena...but these anti-religious diatribes of mine don't make me feel especially good. In all the times I've attempted to talk sense to the faithful, I have never changed a single mind. The religious only see rational logic as a "challenge to their faith". It's genetic. They're practically robotic.

While I often accuse our leaders of bending to the will of their prospective religions, I also suspect that they have no real attachment to their so-called "beliefs". If they did, they wouldn't be killing so many innocents in the name of "justice".

No, I suspect the fact is that they most likely really don't give a shit for their religions and they don't take them seriously. They are only counting on the fervently stupid to do so, and for the sheep to follow.

Pope to starving masses: "Go forth and multiply..."

 

[HazardPerry]

No, I suspect the fact is that they most likely really don't give a shit for their religions and they don't take them seriously. They are only counting on the fervently stupid to do so, and for the sheep to follow.

Interesting that on one hand, in an earlier post, you would assert that we are engaged in a war between religions, and on the other, you claim that our leaders have no real attachment to their so-called "beliefs," indeed do not take them seriously at all. Which is it? I do not for a moment believe that the conflicts we have embarked upon in the last few years have any religious grounds; you say yourself that

They are only counting on the fervently stupid to do so, and for the sheep to follow.

Now, aside from the implication that to take religion seriously makes one fervently stupid, this sentiment I can agree with; any person who believes we are actively engaged in a clash of religion is saddled with a misguided perspective. I find it far more likely that we are primarily waging a war for natural resources and global hegemony. The collectivist demonization of Islam or "The West" (depending on which side of the conflict you find yourself on) is merely a tool to rally public opinion and facilitate operations.

Now this...

I'll take a bow, Jena...but these anti-religious diatribes of mine don't make me feel especially good. In all the times I've attempted to talk sense to the faithful, I have never changed a single mind. The religious only see rational logic as a "challenge to their faith". It's genetic. They're practically robotic.

...is more difficult to swallow. If these diatribes don't make you feel especially good, how can you expect to "talk sense to the faithful." You say that "The religious" (what delightful conglomeration) only see rational logic as a challenge to their faith. Perhaps if you did not structure your "rational logic" in the form of "anti-religious diatribe?"

When you assert that (if I may re-structure your phrasing a bit) it is genetic for the religious to see rational logic as a challenge to their faith, I must pause a moment. Where does genetics enter this equation? If people were genetically anchored to their belief system, why, there would be no such thing as apostasy, nor would any converts exist. Perhaps the gene is recessive? Is this "rational logic?"

The framing of your phrases belies your preconceptions. "The religious" must have sense talked into them. They will stubbornly reject any rational logic, are even hostile towards it. They are practically robots, blind and uncomprehending.

The intoxicating illusion of uniquely privileged perspective, it seems, is not confined merely to the fervently religious.

 

[A rope leash]

Enormously complicated, ain't I?

Hey, I don't know if our leaders REALLY take to heart their religions. It seems they would be more likely to turn the other cheek if they did...and I don't know if these wars are in fact secretly and officially centered on religion, but the rhetoric certainly makes them seem like they are. This rhetoric is aimed at the masses who actually believe their religions are factual...this gives a boost to whatever the motives for war our leaders hold. I don't know where you live, but I know some of the "Christian soldiers" where I live were quite vocal about their desire to get over there and "kill some ragheads". The real goal of the war may be resources, but religion gives the popular "permission" for the war.

Once again, I ask: Why aren't these "peace-loving" congregations out in the streets DEMANDING an end to these wars? I'm sorry, but all I'm hearing from these folks is how these are the "end times" and how we must accept and fulfill "god's will". I guess I'll make them a deal...once we have the nuclear exchange some are praying for as "Armageddon", and Jesus comes back, I'll give the religious their due...IF...they will give up on religion when Jesus does not return, and we're all struggling just to breathe.

The ability to believe impossible things has been tenatively "proven" to be genetic. Google "the god gene". This gene was isolated some years back. Maybe some would call it bad science, but it works in the same way a dog has particular traits. After generations of being brainwashed by religious leaders, some folks are just naturally susceptable to falling for baloney, like some dogs just know how to fetch. Add to this an environment of indoctrination and mal-education, plus the inability of most humans to understand how their own minds can fool them, and I think we can understand how the faithful can be so cock-sure about "god". I call this "fervently stupid", knowing fully that some very smart and well-educated people think "god" is real. Perhaps I should say they are "wilfully stupid", but that probably applies more to the sheep than to the wolves that lead them.

No, my inclination to challenge the faithful does not make me feel good. They do need to be challenged, but it's like taking candy from a baby. One can say it is done for their own good, but you still took candy from a baby. Destroying conceptions of "god" by using reason and logic is tremendously easy, but it is painful to see the faithful wresting with what they know to be real against what they have been told to "beLIEve", and horrible to see them fall back on "scripture" and traditional platitudes to back up their empty arguments. An argument not based on reason cannot be fought with reason, so trying to explain the impossibility of "god" to a believer becomes an act of errant pissing.

It's the 21st century. No one believes Zeus is or was real, but there was a time when many people took it on faith that the "gods" existed. There's no outward, hard, empirical evidence that any "god' is real, but here in the space-age we still have to deal with those who claim that what is in their hearts and brains exists also outside of those domains. Here in the space-age, these types seem to be the only ones that can get elected. Atheists are still among the most hated people on the planet, but we are almost entirely powerless politically, and the vast majority of awful shit that has come down on the human race cannot be traced to them. Why are we hated? Simply because the truth hurts, and no one wants to be stupid or look stupid, so as long as we are outnumbered by the gullible, those that lead the gullible will paint atheists as contemptable and "evil". This makes those leaders look "good", and increases the "faithfulness" of their followers.

Hey, it's a lonely life being an atheist. I sometimes wish I could believe bullshit, but I cannot, and I never have. Didn't go for Santa Claus, either. I just don't take anything on "faith". That's a loser, if you ask me. But, no one of any importance is asking me, so what's the difference? The difference is a future of science and logic applied to mankind's problems, against a future of nuclear war and fizzled fantasies of mankind's "salvation". In the end, I cannot deny that a mass extermination of human beings would be benefical for the planet, but if it happens, it won't be any god that pushed the button, will it? I'm sorry, but it frightens me that the same folks that are in possession of the codes are the some of the same that profess to believe that these are the "end of days".

Thank you for reading carefully and pointing out the obvious spins in my postings. I hope this post clarifies my points and satifies your inquiries.

The Pope recently said that the church was correct in demonizing Galileo. This is progress? Do you know any religious people that accept the denial of god's existence? Do you know any religious people who will stand and say that god is only a "maybe"? I don't...not Christians, anyway. Perhaps it is not a "must" that they should be challenged, but they have had pretty much a free ride for an awful long time...and as for "priviledged perspectives", well, there's nothing more priviledged than not having to pay taxes, is there?

Can we agree that, at the very least, churches should pay taxes?

 

[A rope leash]

Religious segmentation and personalization

One of the arguments I often present to believers in my efforts to dissuade them from their faith is the issue of religious plurality, inconsistency, and personalization.

The mere fact that there is more than one religion, and indeed, more than one presentation of "god", tends to denigrate the validity of all religions. Every major religion can be broken down into sects which disagree on this or that issue within the religion. These sects are all absolutely certain that their particular set of tenets and beliefs are the correct ones, and that other beliefs are incorrect or misguided. These sects of "peace-loving peoples" often come to blows over their differences, as we've seen in Ireland and Iraq.

But, this segementation of the religious market, which is so well displayed by the differing brands of churches in the average town, also boils down to the individual. How often I have heard a religious believer say "well, I don't believe in that particular passage or tradition"? On the personal level, people take from their religions what they are comfortable with, and reject what they are not comfortable with. This is the same as saying "part of my religion is bullshit". Well, how can they be sure the stink doesn't come from the core of it? The person that says "I don't go to church, but I believe in god", has rejected organized religion in favor of a self-made religion. If religion and "god" allows all this, then there cannot be a solid basis of fact for believing any of it. "Faith" has little to do with facts, and everything to do with going along to get along.

"Honey, I'm hungry for Episcopalian. Can we have Episcopalian?"

"We had Episcopalian last week. I want Pentecostal!"

As I understand it, Obama used to be a Muslim. How can he flop to another religion and truly "believe in it", when he used to truly "believe" in another religion? The answer is simple...being a Muslim does not get a person elected in the USA. I'd have to question his sincerity on any other subject, knowing this. Bush used to be a drunkard, now he's "reborn". Nobody knows for sure what anyone actually believes, so belief itself becomes suspect to the rational thinker. While it's okay to speculate, why does anyone have to "believe" anything? Why can't we stick to repeatedly provable facts, and be happy with that, knowing that we cannot know that which we do not have sufficient and conclusive evidence to prove?

For the religious who find comfort in their beliefs, it should not be difficult to also understand that there is comfort in facts. Facts. We know what they are, we can test them, they are definitely actual. To say that we believe something to be a fact is just a belief. Without evidence, why should anyone proclaim it to be "truth"?

http//:www.ffrf.org

 

[sophocles07]

Can you boast as many Atheists killed for their belief?

It is a strange custom that because someone dies for a phantom he is suddenly a hero.

I don't hate "atheists," but I do hate "atheism." In my opinion, it is the most irrational, dangerous, diabolical, contradictory, and foolish theories that mankind has ever formulated as a philosophy and view of the world. Therefore, I, as a Christian theist, will continue to seek its destruction until it is eradicated from the world as a system of thought and lifestyle.

Is it also irrational to say you don’t believe a purple elephant rules the universe?

You are ridiculous.

In passing, I would say that "atheists" hate theists more than theists hate them because "atheists" love sin and hate God, by nature. One can only think of the Christian hate speeches of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris, as international spokesman of "atheism." If you want to witness hatred and aggression as you've never seen in a human being, just read any of their works or listen to their speeches. It will definitely send chills up your spine and make your blood boil. It's just too bad these guys will have to face an angry and righteous God on Judgment Day to give an account of their perpetual hate, aggression, and ridicule towards God's people (unless they turn from their wicked ways and believe in the truth of God's revelation).

Anyway, for me, "atheists" aren't the problem because they are made in the image and likeness of their Creator, though they daily refuse to acknowledge Him as such. It's "atheism" that's the problem, and as I've said before, I will work diligently to bring its demise to the human race as long as the living God blesses me with breath in my body and His Spirit in my soul. Having said that, I try hard to love "atheists" as my neighbors on God's earth, though I fail to do that at times, I admit.

So much for "atheists" trying to attain peace in the world. As long as theists exist, you will never have peace because your "atheism" will be a threat to us. Oh, what will you do?

Alright, I started to go through this bit by bit, then realized it was pointless and that you are a complete idiot, so I will just leave it at that.

Whether you believe it or not, WilliamC, there is a war going on for men's minds, and it's spiritual in nature.

Who told you this?

It's a war of ideas, and I believe it's more important than any of the current wars going on around the world today. That is where I choose to fight against all those who seek to dishonor God and His Son Jesus Christ by rejecting His authority and ignoring His revelation in nature and in His word (the Bible). I don't need to use bullets or swords to fight and win this war because my weapons are not carnal in nature (2 Corinthians 10:4).

Christians don’t have ideas, they have faith. Unless, like Aquinas, they combine Greek philosophy with Christianity; then they have ideas. But that’s not really Christianity.

The only way peace will be restored to these united States (and really, the whole world) is through the power, wisdom, judgment, and love of the Lord Jesus Christ Who has all authority bestowed upon Him (Matthew 28:18). He is the Prince of peace, and one day the government will rest upon His shoulder (Isaiah 9:6, 7). Heaven is His throne, and the Earth is His footstool (Acts 7:49). As soon as we all come to terms with that truth, the better our world will be, guaranteed.

GOD you suck.

If it seems that I'm not peaceful or loving, forgive my flesh because my spirit earnestly desires those things for all of God's creation. It's just frustrating to me how some people continue to downplay God's dominion and existence while trying at the same time to attain those things which only come from His hand, such as peace, prosperity, and freedom from tyranny.

You are aware that “peace, prosperity, and freedom from tyranny” HAVE EXISTED APART FROM THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IN MANY PLACES—RIGHT?

So, once again, WilliamC, I do not wish to destroy your life, but I have a major problem with your worldview because it is an affront to my God. Therefore, I will continue to battle "atheism," agnosticism, humanism, or any other belief system which willfully and ignorantly dismisses the sovereign God of the universe (revealed in the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments) as the central point of all knowledge, wisdom, understanding, and truth. I guess you could call it a "holy war," but not all wars are bad.

This reads like a fundamentalist text with Christian inserts:

“So, once again, WilliamC, I do not wish to destroy your life, but I have a major problem with your worldview because it is an affront to my God. Therefore, I will continue to battle “atheism,” agnosticism, humanism, or any other belief system which willfully and ignorantly dismisses the sovereign God of the universe (revealed in the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, AND the Qu’ran) as the central point of all knowledge, wisdom, understanding, and truth. I guess you could call it a “holy war,” but not all wars are bad.”

ONE INSERT, and you’re a Muslim fundamentalist.

I was explaining the intent of my first post on this thread to you. I find it interesting, WilliamC, that you constantly talk about problems with "collectivism," yet your adherence to "individualism" is itself the product of a collectivist mindset because you wish all people would acknowledge the individuality or individual rights of each other together. It seems to me you've overlooked your own collectivism.

FUCK, “Theocrat,” you got him.

Idiot.

I've never advocated that in any of my posts. I try to deal with arguments based on absolute and objective truth, but it seems to me that you don't believe in that sort of truth. I don't have to push my beliefs on anyone, but I do believe that people are wrong when they don't accept absolute truth, which comes from God, not me.

Proves my above point: you don’t have ideas, you have a text written centuries ago which you quote.

That’s not an idea.

And it is not “truth” by any stretch.

I don't know how many times I have to reiterate to you, WilliamC, that I do not wish to destroy you as a person. You keep wanting to state that, but it's simply not true, so please refrain from making that an issue. It's your ideas that I have a problem with, and they have no connection to me on what happens to your physical life.

Yes, you don’t want to “destroy” him, you just want to waive some sort of smug brimstone about what “may” happen after he dies.

Jesus Christ was more than just a "great philosopher." As He's declared Himself in His own word, Jesus was God (Hebrews 7:3; John 1:1-3; John 8:56-58; Colossians 1:17; et. al.). At this point, you are simply wrong to suggest Jesus was just a philosopher.

If Jesus was God, God’s “philosophy” is fairly scanty, no? It appears 1,000 times before Jesus’ little cross-dance.

Muslims are fatally wrong about their conceptions of God because they reject God's true revelation in His holy Scriptures. Therefore, Islam is just superstition.

You are aware they take the Old and New Testaments to be revelations, right?

If Islam is superstition, you are invalidating your own religion at the same time.

You are also aware that Christians in the Middle East call their God “ALLAH” too, right?

 

[HazardPerry]

A rope leash, to clarify, what I meant by privileged perspective is the assured belief in one's individual opinion, to the exclusion of all others.

And yes, I see no reason why Churches and other religious institutions do not have to pay taxes.

It just seems to me that you are utilizing sweeping generalizations to bolster your arguments. Is it so hard to speak in terms of the individual, recognizing a spectrum of belief and practice?

You paint a picture of reasoned minds battling against the suicidal, empty minds of religion; it is very simple to fashion these sorts of collectives, but as a tool for logical reasoning they have immense shortcomings. I see you speaking of being rational, and yet I do not see you behaving in that manner. All Christians do not pray for nuclear holocaust, that is absurdity. Perhaps the Christians you have come in contact with are very vocal in their support of war and would like nothing better than to wage a moral crusade, both domestic and foreign. But mustn't it be recognized that they may not be particularly representative of the full body of practice?

I do not follow your argument that religion is the blame for the world's calamities. Even if 100% of violent acts throughout history were perpetrated by those who claimed a religious affiliation, the fact would remain that it is the individual who commits the act, not the religion. Being an atheist does not elevate you above cruelty and violence.

If one becomes an atheist in an environment in which such ideas are rare, or frowned upon, it does reflect a strong will (to stand apart from the majority and follow one's beliefs), an open and inquiring mind (to acknowledge alternative ideas and then seek them out), and, often, a quick wit (to defend against attack). These qualities may deter one from ignoble acts, however they do not make for an inherently peaceful and loving person. That must remain the prerogative of the individual.

Likewise, while religion is often held to teach morality and good character, it is often apparent that those who profess adherence do not exactly embody that charter. Again, it is the will of the individual and his environment which shapes these decisions.

Let us steer away from counting bodies, shall we? I do not need to be read a laundry list of those atrocities committed in the name of religion, nor do you need to be recited a tally of genocides perpetrated by arguably atheist and at the very least secular leaders and the states thereof. To me, and hopefully to you, they are all engaging in heinous wrongdoing.

A pissing match is precisely what typically goes on when a vocal atheist comes across a vocal theist, and what a sad thing that is. When I see it occur, all I can think of is how convinced each is of their correctness, how each feels mandated to sway the other. The atheist sees the theist as a backwards philistine blind to the ultimate truth, and the theist sees the atheist as a doomed heathen blind to the ultimate truth. Each will become more firmly entrenched in their beliefs, more assured of their argument, more deeply convinced of the laughable nature of the other's "belief."

What typically precipitates this behavior, and what it seems to me you have experienced on multiple occasions, is the maddening activism. It is unfortunate, and I side with you on this issue. I do not enjoy having literature thrust into my hands, nor do I particularly enjoy listening to a born again nut-case with a bullhorn and placards thunder about how my community is rapidly descending into the hellfire of homosexual butt-lust while I am trying to eat my lunch. I just wish that more people would hold individuals accountable for their actions instead of insisting that they are beholden to a collective belief which guides their mind at all times.

I accept the denial of God's existence. I do not deny it, but I accept your denial. I see nothing wrong with it, and why should I? You are as entitled to your belief as I am to mine. I am not as versed in Christianity as you may be, however I think that many Christians feel it is their duty to "save the souls" of as many people as possible. Many feel affronted or even endangered at the thought of atheism. I do not understand this, and it is something I have only recently come to realize, in small part even because of this thread. This attitude is frowned upon in my religion, at least my experience and teaching of it, so I dislike it as a matter of doctrine equally as much as you do. :o

 

[nobody's_hero]

Man, this is an angry thread.

People should be free to believe whatever they want. Believe or not believe what you want, and I'll believe or not believe what I want. In the end, I can only account for my actions. That's borrowed from existentialism.

 

[Mach]

Religion

One of the best questions to ask is.......... if you believe in God............ why do you go to the Doctors office and Hospital (Science), why don't you just pray and wait, if God wants you to be healed then he will do it, if not then you won't be healed and that, of course, is Gods wish..... and it's for the good, so, if you die, that would be Gods decision......... no?

Like the Video says... when someone gets a disease and it disappears, people call it a Miracle....... why don't Miracles ever happen to/for Amputees? I never once in my life heard of someone growing something back....... is God prejudice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

 

[HazardPerry]

One of the best questions to ask is.......... if you believe in God............ why do you go to the Doctors office and Hospital (Science), why don't you just pray and wait, if God wants you to be healed then he will do it, if not then you won't be healed and that, of course, is Gods wish..... and it's for the good, so, if you die, that would be Gods decision......... no?

Like the Video says... when someone gets a disease and it disappears, people call it a Miracle....... why don't Miracles ever happen to/for Amputees? I never once in my life heard of someone growing something back....... is God prejudice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

I can't speak for all religions, but in mine, science and faith are not mutually exclusive ?

 

[Mach]

How does your Religion coincide with science?

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

 

[JenaS62]

It is a strange custom that because someone dies for a phantom he is suddenly a hero.




Is it also irrational to say you don’t believe a purple elephant rules the universe?

You are ridiculous.



Alright, I started to go through this bit by bit, then realized it was pointless and that you are a complete idiot, so I will just leave it at that.



Who told you this?



Christians don’t have ideas, they have faith. Unless, like Aquinas, they combine Greek philosophy with Christianity; then they have ideas. But that’s not really Christianity.




GOD you suck.




You are aware that “peace, prosperity, and freedom from tyranny” HAVE EXISTED APART FROM THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IN MANY PLACES—RIGHT?



This reads like a fundamentalist text with Christian inserts:

“So, once again, WilliamC, I do not wish to destroy your life, but I have a major problem with your worldview because it is an affront to my God. Therefore, I will continue to battle “atheism,” agnosticism, humanism, or any other belief system which willfully and ignorantly dismisses the sovereign God of the universe (revealed in the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, AND the Qu’ran) as the central point of all knowledge, wisdom, understanding, and truth. I guess you could call it a “holy war,” but not all wars are bad.”

ONE INSERT, and you’re a Muslim fundamentalist.



FUCK, “Theocrat,” you got him.

Idiot.



Proves my above point: you don’t have ideas, you have a text written centuries ago which you quote.

That’s not an idea.

And it is not “truth” by any stretch.



Yes, you don’t want to “destroy” him, you just want to waive some sort of smug brimstone about what “may” happen after he dies.



If Jesus was God, God’s “philosophy” is fairly scanty, no? It appears 1,000 times before Jesus’ little cross-dance.



You are aware they take the Old and New Testaments to be revelations, right?

If Islam is superstition, you are invalidating your own religion at the same time.

You are also aware that Christians in the Middle East call their God “ALLAH” too, right?

Theocrat and his ilk are exactly the reason I stopped believing in a god at age 10. And you are correct in that he does sound exactly like a Muslim extremist. Kill the infidels or MAKE them believe in something that there is no proof of or presence of.

 

[JenaS62]

One of my favorite quotes

"Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time.

...But he loves you... He loves you and he needs money. "

 

[HazardPerry]

How does your Religion coincide with science?

Here is an interesting lecture given by Seyyid Nasr at MIT. It is a bit long, and hardly exhaustive, but worth the read nonetheless. It highlights the healthy debate and much meaningful discussion that has been undertaken in the last few decades as Islamic scholars struggle to again find their voice in the world. I myself am an astronomer eying a Ph.D. (astrophysics yeeeaaahhh!!) and have studied extensively the Islamic tradition of science. There is a well-known hadith which says:

"He who pursues the road of knowledge Allah will direct to the road of Paradise... The brightness of a learned man compared to that of a mere worshiper is like that of a the full moon compared to all the stars.... Obtain knowledge; its possessor can distinguish right from wrong; it shows the way to Heaven; it befriends us in the desert and in solitude, and when we are friendless; it is our guide to happiness; it gives us strength in misery; it is an ornament to friends, protection against enemies.... The scholar's ink is holier than the martyr's blood.... Seeking knowledge is required of every Muslim....

I keep this Hadith on my person, I find it's glowing sentiment quite powerful. Historically, in the societies of my religion (perhaps during better, more stable, more wealthy times, when such things could be pursued more readily), science and religion have each fed knowledge of the other. Not always in direct concordance, but never rejected out of hand as a result. Always there was debate, reflection, commentary, acceptance. This is the beating heart of Islam; a scholastic tradition very much rooted in questioning and eternal seeking. It is sad indeed to see some parts of the community sliding into "fundamentalism," a land of absolute surety where argument is frowned upon, even punishable, and man falsely believes he has grasped the absolute truth of God's message. Folly...

 

[Mach]

People get very emotional over this stuff....... that emotion... feeling, over-rides logic.... be careful.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
-- Susan B. Anthony 1896


Hateful Atheist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU


Atheist Delusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkhQLt1vbWU

Overview
http://www.youtube.com/user/GIIVideo

Dawkins101

Part 1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4321574955310561251&q=THE+GOD+DELUSION&hl=en

Part 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5627242120502502207&q=VIRUS+OF+FAITH&hl=en


I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, ‘If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?’ ‘No,’ said the priest, ‘not if you did not know.’ ‘Then why,’ asked the Eskimo earnestly, ‘did you tell me?’
- Annie Dillard

 

[Mach]

Feeling

HazardPerry, I read over the Lecture by Seyyid Hossein Nasr, am I understanding this correctly? He's saying... ok, follow science along, but, get some "feeling" from "religion".... kind of half and half... that science can only supply so much?

I have to say, I do have spirit, I do look up to a "Superior" with feeling...... Nature, the Universe, I am very thankful, people say...... "nothing is perfect"..... I say...... "Mother Nature"....... it (Nature) is not prejudice in any way shape and/or form, people die equally under Nature, someone name one way that Nature is not perfect.

Here is a video..... do you agree with some of his views?..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyboXCIVJY0

-

I don't hate anyone for believing in any Religion, unless, they start shoving it in my face and that doesn't include discussion, I enjoy debating with people, I don't think that everyone has to see things my way or it will end the world, oh, wait a second.................... c'mon'....... lol....