The Shocking Truth Behind Amnesty

[erowe1]

Welfare states and illegal immigration go hand in hand.

Exactly. Solution: Get rid of welfare, and legalize all immigration.

 

[Ender]

Whitey didn't come over and "steal" the land from the indians. We came over here and kicked your ass!!!!!

First "whitey" spread the plague and killed of 9/10s of the Indian population. Then "whitey" lied and did not hold true to peace agreements.

BTW- the only Europeans the Indians came to trust were the Scots. They didn't lie and they wore skirts.

 

[Ender]

Exactly. Solution: Get rid of welfare, and legalize all immigration.

Yep.

 

[AuH20]

Whitey didn't come over and "steal" the land from the indians. We came over here and kicked your ass!!!!!

And the globalists are utlizing the same tactics on us, that the TPTB perfected on the Native Americans. Agenda 21 will lead to modern day reservations. Mark my words.

 

[Michelangelo]

I am not in favor of deportation, as that is a logistical and financial nightmare. And adult immigrants very much hurt an economy. Again, please look at the Dominican Republic for an example. You keep thinking along the lines of a perfect nation based on a free economy. America is nowhere near that, and until we are at least on the path to achieve it, to not stop illegal immigration is an incredibly foolish thing.

As I have noted before, regional overpopulation is possible when a region does not have the capital, knowledge, of technology to make full use of its resources. Several Carribean countries are certainly overpopulated and their population would be better off if some of them migrated elsewhere. The Haiti-Dominican Republic issue is a bit more complex than that admittedly and I would be willing to continue that discussion in another thread if you want to dwell deeper into it.

Adult migrants, legal and illegal, do not harm the economy or the fiscal situation of the government. They are net tax payers.

Young migrants and babies are the net tax recipients. The welfare state is concentrated on the latter group and it is the latter group that does not pay any taxes. There isn't much we can do about restricting welfare to the young though. Constitutionally citizens are entitled to certain services including access to state education. The best we can do for now is reform the welfare state to be more efficient.

And no, getting rid of birthright citizenship would not solve the problem. Babies whose parents are natives or legal migrants are as much a problem to the fiscal stability of the government as the children of illegal aliens are.

Let me add,
Over population is a myth. Without immigration, we would have a shortage of labor, higher food prices, higher construction costs, and higher home maintenance costs (or more chores, or more stay at home parents).

You, wanna see what a nation without immigration looks like, watch Japan over the next 3 decades. The biggest problem will be their pension system. and the increasing distortion of retired to working age employees.

I agree that overpopulation is largely a myth. You are also quite correct that Japan, Korea, and a few other Asian countries are facing a demographic bomb unless they encourage immigration. Los Angeles and the rest of California may face this same problem in the future.

Theoretically overpopulation could happen and regional overpopulation does occur. Both the dangers of general overpopulation and regional overpopulation are overstated, but from a theoretical standpoint they could happen.

Welfare states and illegal immigration go hand in hand.


your ideology is garbage. Go for a surf in CA or just try to drive from SD to LA on any day. See if you can catch a wave or get to work on time. If illegals were not here this might be a decent place to live but they have all but destroyed this great state.

Transportation economics is actually one of my fields, so you'll have to forgive me when I say that your implication that migrants are the cause for southern California's congestion is simply hogwash. The reason that congestion occurs is because the roads are unpriced and this encourages people to travel on them more than they should. It has also encouraged the city to sprawl more than it would otherwise. Which is not to say that Los Angeles' infamous sprawl development wouldn't have occurred if roads were priced. Land is so plentiful in California that I am sure we would still have sprawled development, but not to the same extent as we have today.

Migrants actually help reduce congestion since they reduce the per capita cost of new infrastructure. They aren't a panacea and we really do need to begin pricing the roads, but they aren't the cause of the region's congestion problems.

Also, the welfare state and illegal immigration do not go hand in hand. The Cato Institute is doing some marvelous work on the political influence immigrants exert and the answer that they don't influence things much. Natives are largely responsible for how politics are shaped. If you are seriously concerned about migrants abusing the welfare state, why not focus our efforts on reducing the welfare state instead? The Clinton administration was able to restrict most welfare benefits to citizens during his era, so we know that is politically feasible to opt for this route.

 

[Dr.3D]

Just allow those who would vote democrat to have amnesty and voting rights and see what happens.

 

[PierzStyx]

Nah, they can move not me. I am not a bootlicker.

Sounds like all of you are very well versed in Rockefeller Liberal Arts.

Nothing but liberals in here.

What the Hades does this even mean? If you're somehow implying free market economics is somehow left wing liberal then you're either extremely ignorant or an idiot.

And if you refuse to do something about living in one of the states with the greatest poor and worse unemployment stop blaming others. Also, considering Hispanics have been immigrating to the Southwest for well over 200 years now, I somehow doubt you "were here first."

 

[jbauer]

you can sit there and make arguments from your flyover state pulpit, but I live here in LA and seeing your country turn into a POS tijuana wannabe 3rd world country might open up your country boy eyes a little bit.

And yeah I went to college, so I do expect to get a jobby job you asshole. Thats what college is for.

Well how about that you holier than thou piece of work. Going to college doesn't give you a job, it gives you a hunting license for a job. Its not anyone but your own that you don't have one. A further point, how many "illegals" are competing for your top 50 college job that you can't find?

 

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

The national revolutions of socialism were part of Mexico's own history. Look it up. The NWO will combine North America just as they did the European Union. They don't want 'Merica to be exclusive so they must dilute it from within. If they can't do it outright, then they will blend the countries so we effectively loose any say in the matter. Who cares what they say, it's what they are doing. They're are building their socialist oligarchy. It gives them the most complete control. Just look at China.

 

[jbauer]

The national revolutions of socialism were part of Mexico's own history. Look it up. The NWO will combine North America just as they did the European Union. They don't want 'Merica to be exclusive so they must dilute it from within. If they can't do it outright, then they will blend the countries so we effectively loose any say in the matter. Who cares what they say, it's what they are doing. They're are building their socialist oligarchy. It gives them the most complete control. Just look at China.

So you dislike socialism, but want to be given a job in a field you deserve. Don't want to move to where jobs are and want the government to dictate who can and cannot drive on "your" crowded freeways? Gotcha

 

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

First "whitey" spread the plague and killed of 9/10s of the Indian population. Then "whitey" lied and did not hold true to peace agreements.

BTW- the only Europeans the Indians came to trust were the Scots. They didn't lie and they wore skirts.

Im a scot !!!

 

[AuH20]

The national revolutions of socialism were part of Mexico's own history. Look it up. The NWO will combine North America just as they did the European Union. They don't want 'Merica to be exclusive so they must dilute it from within. If they can't do it outright, then they will blend the countries so we effectively loose any say in the matter. Who cares what they say, it's what they are doing. They're are building their socialist oligarchy. It gives them the most complete control. Just look at China.

The national rot started far before the mass migration of the illlegals, but the central planners do intend to finish us off with amnesty from a 'representative' perspective. In order to maintain this illusion of the "consent of the governed" they need to introduce a more desperate class of dependents that they can manipulate very easily with ethnic themed ploys. Americans are gradually falling into the same trap that has beset the African Americans, but this willful self-destruction is not happening quickly enough for the ivory tower elites.

 

[Michelangelo]

The national revolutions of socialism were part of Mexico's own history. Look it up. The NWO will combine North America just as they did the European Union. They don't want 'Merica to be exclusive so they must dilute it from within. If they can't do it outright, then they will blend the countries so we effectively loose any say in the matter. Who cares what they say, it's what they are doing. They're are building their socialist oligarchy. It gives them the most complete control. Just look at China.

The United States already is the North American Union. It would not harm us if the Canadian provinces or Mexican states joined us. To the contrary it would be an increase in the market and therefore good.

Sigh, and yes Mexico has had its fair share of socialists but so has the US and every other country in the world. Mexico has also had its fair share of classical liberals. Liberty Fund recently published a book with classical liberal writings from Mexico. They also released one for Argentina for those interested.

P.S. Mexico also has a libertarian movement, believe it or not. I've met a few of them and they're as radical as anyone else in the movement.

Just allow those who would vote democrat to have amnesty and voting rights and see what happens.

And if they voted Republican things would be better?

If your concern is about the voting patterns of future migrants simply deny them the vote.

 

[Intoxiklown]

Whitey didn't come over and "steal" the land from the indians. We came over here and kicked your ass!!!!!

My problem with illegal immigration is logistics, and it should be addressed AFTER economic problems are dealt with, otherwise we are letting our heart make decions over our brains. I find this quote to show a rather racist undertone.

My last name is Blount (please look it up). My family literally helped settle this nation, and fought for it's independence. My family is Nordic, and we know the Vikings were the first Euros to step foot in America, and my family is also part Creek indian. In other words, I can use your logic and make a good case of why you should go, but I don't. Because the worst thing we ever did was hyphenate the word American. I am not Nordic-American. I am not Native American. I am an American.

Do you truly understand the divisiveness you are promoting? I have traveled all over the world, and it has lead me to recognize certain problems, as well as understand other histories and cultures. I fully embrace letting people come here, and wanting to better themselves. Instead of screaming about that though, I try to explain to people we have to put a hold on anyone coming in illegally until we get a hold on our out of control government and it's entitlement SOP. Which ironically, you seem to have the mindset you are entitled to jobs over someone else because they are from another nation?

 

[Intoxiklown]

The United States already is the North American Union. It would not harm us if the Canadian provinces or Mexican states joined us. To the contrary it would be an increase in the market and therefore good.

What??? Do you support GATT and WTO as well?

 

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

So you dislike socialism, but want to be given a job in a field you deserve. Don't want to move to where jobs are and want the government to dictate who can and cannot drive on "your" crowded freeways? Gotcha

Where is a good place to move with waves, nice weather and tv/film jobs? Please tell me.

 

[jbauer]

Where is a good place to move with waves, nice weather and tv/film jobs? Please tell me.

So your socialist arse not only wants a job provided to you but you also condition that with optimal weather and waves? You're not the surfer dude from youtube are you? Life sometimes sucks deal with it.

 

[jllundqu]

Go back to Stormfront.

Beat me to it

 

[Ender]

Im a scot !!!

So start acting like one.

BTW- I'm a Scot/Cherokee/Lumbee

 

[Dr.3D]

The United States already is the North American Union. It would not harm us if the Canadian provinces or Mexican states joined us. To the contrary it would be an increase in the market and therefore good.

Sigh, and yes Mexico has had its fair share of socialists but so has the US and every other country in the world. Mexico has also had its fair share of classical liberals. Liberty Fund recently published a book with classical liberal writings from Mexico. They also released one for Argentina for those interested.

P.S. Mexico also has a libertarian movement, believe it or not. I've met a few of them and they're as radical as anyone else in the movement.



And if they voted Republican things would be better?

If your concern is about the voting patterns of future migrants simply deny them the vote.

Yeah, really! What's the difference between perhaps Rand Paul vs. Hillery Clinton? Guess we shouldn't be so concerned if Hillery gets eight years in the White House.