the right to commit suicide is not a RIGHT! - everyone should understand this!

[TheTexan]

What do you base this on?

It can't be common sense if other people can't understand it. And I definitely can't.

If I want to do X, and it does not interfere with any of your rights, what gives you the right to interfere with me doing X?

 

[erowe1]

You may believe that someone has a moral obligation, or a moral imperative, or is acting selflessly from compassion, but that is not a Right...at least not a negative Right.

If someone has a moral obligation to do something, then they definitely have a right to do it.

 

[otherone]

What do you base this on?

It can't be common sense if other people can't understand it. And I definitely can't.

What do you actually own, erowe?

 

[TheTexan]

If someone has a moral obligation to do something, then they definitely have a right to do it.

If I have a moral obligation to stone you to death because you cheated on your husband, do I have a right to do it?

 

[otherone]

If someone has a moral obligation to do something, then they definitely have a right to do it.

Based on what? The law? You realize that not everyone's moral compass is the same, whereas everyone's Rights are?

 

[erowe1]

If I want to do X, and it does not interfere with any of your rights, what gives you the right to interfere with me doing X?

Does a moral law of absolute right and wrong exist at all?

If no, then neither of us have any rights.

If yes, then our rights are determined by that moral law.

It is that law that either allows or disallows suicide and allows or disallows the saving of a life of someone trying to commit suicide.

My understanding of that law, and why you would be wrong to kill yourself and I would be right to stop you, is based on my understanding of God's revelation to us in his son and in the Bible.

 

[erowe1]

Based on what? The law? You realize that not everyone's moral compass is the same, whereas everyone's Rights are?

I'm not sure what you mean about everyone's moral compass not being the same.

If there do exist moral obligations, then those moral obligations don't depend on our beliefs. They are the same thing as what you are calling Rights. If there don't exist moral obligations that exist independently of our beliefs, then there don't exist what you are calling Rights either.

 

[TheTexan]

My understanding of that law, and why you would be wrong to kill yourself and I would be right to stop you, is based on my understanding of God's revelation to us in his son and in the Bible.

If it's based on your understanding of the Bible, and not the Bible itself, then it's ultimately your beliefs, not God's. There is likely a great deal of things in the Bible you do not agree with, or more accurately, you choose to not agree with.

Pointing at the Bible to defend your choices is a copout, a trained behavior, taught by your pastors and family, to encourage acceptance into your Christian community.

Your belief system is yours. And yours alone. If you choose to use force against an innocent person, you will need to do more than point to a bible to justify it, at least in my eyes.

 

[otherone]

If there don't exist moral obligations that exist independently of our beliefs, then there don't exist what you are calling Rights either.

That's a leap. Rights come from the basic belief that all men are created equal...specifically before the law, specifically in regards his dealings with others. Whether one believes that to be divine in origin or not is immaterial. Again...does the last man on earth have any Rights? Obviously not, as his will is inviolate.

 

[judejin]

Does a moral law of absolute right and wrong exist at all?

If no, then neither of us have any rights.

If yes, then our rights are determined by that moral law.

It is that law that either allows or disallows suicide and allows or disallows the saving of a life of someone trying to commit suicide.

My understanding of that law, and why you would be wrong to kill yourself and I would be right to stop you, is based on my understanding of God's revelation to us in his son and in the Bible.

suicide is not a RIGHT. but suicide is neither wrong nor illegal. we cannot punish anyone who failed a suicide since he only tried to kill himself. suicide is not even morally wrong.

all i'm saying is that suicide is not a RIGHT because rights is everything required to LIVE while suicide is to DIE.

because it is not a RIGHT, anyone can intervene with your suicide. and this person won't be guilty of anything. that's why hospitals put constraints on and monitor someone who wants to commit suicide, which is perfectly legal.

all suicide amounts to is self-destruction. you can do it alone when nobody is around. but whenever anyone discovers you, he/she will try to save you, which is perfectly legal too!

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Does a moral law of absolute right and wrong exist at all?

If no, then neither of us have any rights.

If yes, then our rights are determined by that moral law.

It is that law that either allows or disallows suicide and allows or disallows the saving of a life of someone trying to commit suicide.

My understanding of that law, and why you would be wrong to kill yourself and I would be right to stop you, is based on my understanding of God's revelation to us in his son and in the Bible.

The problem with this is that no one has an objective understanding of the Bible. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, and the various 10,000+ denominations have a different understanding of it. Even secular scholars who study the bible disagree with each other. The closest thing we have to a solid understanding of the text are the orthodox and Catholic traditions which have been handed down since the beginning of the Church. And even among scholars in these traditions there are occasional disagreements. Did you know that there is not even sufficient archaeological evidence to prove that King David actually existed? (see Levine, Amy-Jill; "The Old Testament", published by The Teaching Company as part of The Great Courses series)

 

[Christian Liberty]

because it is not a RIGHT, anyone can intervene with your suicide. and this person won't be guilty of anything. that's why hospitals put constraints on and monitor someone who wants to commit suicide, which is perfectly legal.

Yeah, I don't agree with that. Its one thing to stop someone from making a spur of the moment situation, its another thing to put them under constant surveilance to make absolutely certain they do not ever try to kill themselves. The former is to be a compassionate person in a moment of weakness, and should usually go legally unpunished. The latter is to become The State...

 

[robert68]

yes, of course you can. but when you do so, you're not exercising a RIGHT. you're performing self-destruction.

RIGHTS, by definition, only pertains to everything that's required to LIVE. suicide is to DIE, thus it is not a right. that's why anyone trying to save you is NOT violating your RIGHTS.

Says who besides you?

Far from everything a person does in life is “required for them to live”. With your definition of “right”, people can always prevent the actions others take, that they don't like, that aren't "required for them to live."

 

[judejin]

Says who besides you?

Far from everything a person does in life is “required for them to live”. With your definition of “right”, people can always prevent the actions others take they don't like, that aren't "required for them to live."

suicide is a required action for someone to LIVE? are you kidding yourself?

 

[Christian Liberty]

I think you still have to prove dying isn't a right. Why is there a necessary link between rights and life? Why can't death be a right?

I don't really believe there is an inherent right to do ANYTHING that's immoral, although I do believe in many cases I do think there is a right to be free from violence when choosing to do something that's immoral. I think that's an important distinction to make.

Suicide definitely isn't a right: its immoral.

I think certain methods of using violence to stop it can be a violation of rights (And others not, for the reasons I've already given) but suicide itself isn't a right.

 

[robert68]

suicide is a required action for someone to LIVE? are you kidding yourself?

First, you didn't answer the simple question.

Second, you seem to have either totally missed or deliberately blown off my point. By your definition of 'right', any act a person takes that isn't an act "necessary for one to live", is not a 'right'. For example, acts that are recreation, sports, or entertainment are not acts "necessary for one to live", therefore they are not 'rights' people can engage in (by your logic), without others having the right to prevent them from doing them.

 

[judejin]

First, you didn't answer the simple question.

Second, you seem to have either totally missed or deliberately blown off my point. By your definition of 'right', any act a person takes that isn't an act "necessary for one to live", is not a 'right'. For example, acts of recreation and entertainment are not acts "necessary for one to live", therefore they are not 'rights' people can engage in (by your logic), without others having the right to prevent them from doing them.

any activities associated with living without hurting others are rights!
but suicide is to DIE! so suicide is NOT a right!
with me?

 

[judejin]

SUICIDE is SELF-DESTRUCTION, NOT a RIGHT!

 

[TheTexan]

SUICIDE is SELF-DESTRUCTION, NOT a RIGHT!

Circular argument is circular.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it's a right. If a person wants to kill himself, he'll just do it.

 

[Scrapmo]

Suicidal people tend not to concern themselves with the consequences of breaking suicide laws.