The Problems Oklahoma Dealt With from the Ron Paul Campaign State Coordinator

[acptulsa]

Thanks, Cap. I didn't know all of that.

I've been on this board for a long time, and people here know I'm a skeptic's skeptic. But I'll tell you something, if you want to know. If Charles Key walks up to me and says, this must be done right this second, I'd do it--whatever it is--and ask questions later. He's unimpeachable; he's a treasure. And any organization that has access to his services and turns their collective nose up at it is, as Dickens put it, 'a ass.'

 

[parocks]

Yes, the Ron Paul Campaign, run by Jesse "I hate the grassroots, but I'm going to use that "grassroots" thing for my next neo-con gig" Benton. Don't go against that.

This is not about Benton. I'm not talking about Benton. This has to do with doing what the state director says.

 

[parocks]

What are you talking about? It is not a philosophical question! It is a highly mundane, down-to-earth, practical question, and one that has a painfully obvious, indisputable answer. It only becomes "philosophical" when one has a bizarre quasi-religious devotion to all things Official Campaign. Then, yes, it's a theological issue, like defining whether it's OK to worship the Holy Ghost or making a flowchart of the 7 different levels of angels in heaven.

And you are absolutely wrong. When you are part of an organization, like a campaign, and your supervisor is a lunatic, if there is an organizational level above him you complain to that level. That is how the world works. That is how Official Campaigns work. You are asserting that the world should not work that way. That that's the wrong way. You are asserting, very strongly and repeatedly, that workers in the official campaign should never ever try to get an incompetent supervisor terminated.*

Of course, when you have a campaign you can run it that way. Every manager of every boondock branch office can be set in stone, appointed for life, and above reproach as Parock's One True Representative in Timbuktu. You can make all your workers live in barracks and get up at 5 AM every morning to chant and do calisthenics in the street. You can have the most rigid, top-down campaign structure ever conceived.

* I'm glad you did, by the way. Having a second opposing point of view made for an interesting conversation and debate. And certainly no one else would have taken the extreme contrarian stance like you. Without you, this thread would be lame and boring.

I'm saying that when official campaign gives someone the responsibility of picking delegates, you don't say "FK YOU official campaign, we're going to pick our own delegates".

I think THAT'S how organizations work.

 

[acptulsa]

This is not about Benton. I'm not talking about Benton. This has to do with doing what the state director says.

Charles Key has been a state director for liberty for a very long time. If the campaign doesn't have enough sense to say, hey, these people are following this guy already, and they're moving the right direction, so why would we rock the boat, well, so what? We're still moving the right direction and we're not going to let a little thing like 'officialness' distract us from it or cause us to kill our momentum. And though you're allergic to specificity, if you met the man you'd understand and support that position, because no one gets to know Charles Key and retains the ability to talk out of their ass.

The program predated the campaign, the campaign didn't get with the program and didn't have anything superior to the program, and we stuck with the program. If you don't like it, stay in Maine where you actually know what's going on. Don't know how to break this to you, but Oklahoma faced the same obstacles you did and did no worse than you did. If you don't want to give us credit for that, fine. But don't say this character had the solution to the problem, because he didn't.

You've been carrying on for pages now, and I'll tell you the same thing I tell Washington when they pass a law that works for the damn Yankees but doesn't work for us.

 

[parocks]

Very interesting stuff from Gerhart on DP.

"Now, this link that Steve Dickson is bandying about where they turn over control. What he isn't saying is that they formed that group the night I met with them upon my appointment. They did this specifically to compete with the National campaign but they folded it a month later when they realized I had all the toys. I was in the room when they formed it, but the way things work is that National staff can have zero control or cooperation with grassroots groups that have made independent expenditures so I couldn't approve or disapprove of what they set up. I was there to introduce myself and to get them on board the campaign. Instead they decided to compete with the national campaign.

. . .

Bottom line is this. A few dozen 2008 volunteers refused to take the C4L training to prepare for this election. They had no voters list, most couldn't open an excel spreadsheet to save their life, they refused to follow the FEC requirements that Dr. Paul HAD to comply with to avoid an FEC complaint, and fought everything the National campaign tried to do from day one. Over 40 county coordinators were recruited and they knocked them off one by one by threats of blackballing. They refused to put on a campaign, depending on the "delegate strategy" to win delegates without realizing how this would poison the Gingrich, Santorum, and Romney supporters against Ron Paul's campaign. Had they called voters we might have won a delegate and had a leg to stand on."

 

[parocks]

Charles Key has been a state director for liberty for a very long time. If the campaign doesn't have enough sense to say, hey, these people are following this guy already, and they're moving the right direction, so why would we rock the boat, well, so what? We're still moving the right direction and we're not going to let a little thing like 'officialness' distract us from it or cause us to kill our momentum. And though you're allergic to specificity, if you met the man you'd understand and support that position, because no one gets to know Charles Key and retains the ability to talk out of their ass.

The program predated the campaign, the campaign didn't get with the program and didn't have anything superior to the program, and we stuck with the program. If you don't like it, stay in Maine where you actually know what's going on. Don't know how to break this to you, but Oklahoma faced the same obstacles you did and did no worse than you did. If you don't want to give us credit for that, fine. But don't say this character had the solution to the problem, because he didn't.

You've been carrying on for pages now, and I'll tell you the same thing I tell Washington when they pass a law that works for the damn Yankees but doesn't work for us.

I'm not trying to get to the bottom of the problems that Oklahomans faced.

I'm saying "do what the official campaign tells you to do."

So, the official campaign didn't pick the guy you thought they should've picked. Tough luck. Deal with it.

 

[acptulsa]

So, the official campaign didn't pick the guy you thought they should've picked. Tough luck. Deal with it.

We did.

We also dealt with campaign laws designed to divorce the grassroots from official campaigns. We also dealt with establishment attempts to implant stooges in our ranks. And we dealt with the overt resistance in our faces at every turn. And we did just as good a job of accomplishing the goals of the official campaign as you did in Maine--we set it all up, got ourselves disenfranchised, and exposed it all. Furthermore, we did it in spite of the fact that the campaign appointed someone who was more interested in destroying our momentum than furthering our goals.

So, you don't like the way we did just as much as you did, because we made this joker squeal in the process. Tough luck. Deal with it.

 

[parocks]

We did.

We also dealt with campaign laws designed to divorce the grassroots from official campaigns. We also dealt with establishment attempts to implant stooges in our ranks. And we dealt with the overt resistance in our faces at every turn. And we did just as good a job of accomplishing the goals of the official campaign as you did in Maine--we set it all up, got ourselves disenfranchised, and exposed it all. Furthermore, we did it in spite of the fact that the campaign appointed someone who was more interested in destroying our momentum than furthering our goals.

So, you don't like the way we did just as much as you did, because we made this joker squeal in the process. Tough luck. Deal with it.

Oh, you missed the point. "deal with it" means shut up and follow the official campaign coordinator.

It's means just that.

The grassroots is NOT IN CHARGE. If you go against the official campaign you are being DISRUPTIVE, and NOT HELPFUL.

As I recall, whatever victories you got in OK took place in a parking lot, and were not official.

The official campaign is in charge. Do what they say. The grassroots is not in charge. Do not be disruptive.

 

[acptulsa]

Oh, you missed the point. "deal with it" means shut up and follow the official campaign coordinator.

It's means just that.

Your boots were not on the ground here. Therefore, you have no call and no right to shove your boots up our asses.

You missed the point. We did what we did, and it not only worked better than what this guy was saying we should do, but it worked just exactly as well as what you did. And now it's done. So, now that what's done is done and will never be undone, and now that our record is just as good as yours, you get to deal with it. Especially since you people spent a little time in the parking lot yourselves.

And I think you know that I'm no easier to stifle than you are. Especially when I'm defending someone as worthy as Charles Key. We are not the enemy, parocks. And you can armchair quarterback all you want, but you still don't know what our battlefield looked like...

 

[CapitalistSooner]

Just to be clear, I am Steve Dickson. The "group" he is talking about is one that met in Oklahoma City - it had been meeting for many months, and was not formed that night. Second, it was not formed to compete with the National Campaign, it was formed to help Ron Paul in Oklahoma City only (other areas had similar groups) and it started the year prior. I was not involved until mid-January at any level - the prior year I was finishing a degree in Network Management and did not have the time.

The "few dozen volunteers from 2008" is anyone who was involved in 2008. I am not one of those people, but many people I know were. We had lists we worked - we gathered names of people at precinct meetings, we had the donor list from 2008 and the volunteer list from 2008, we had other lists such as likely voters, but our small group was focused on delegates. The idea that we can't open an excel spreadsheet is laughable, but that is the usual throwing of insults from Mr. Gerhart.

The county coordinators were not approached and picked off, they left of their own accord after dealing the Mr. Gerhart and his delightful demeanor. There were no threats, nor was there an effort to remove Mr. Gerhart in a public way. That would have hurt the overall effort. When it became clear he was seriously incompetent and was damaging Dr. Paul, an appeal from many, many people was made to the campaign itself - in private. "They refused to put on a campaign" is laughable - that was not our job, it was his job. We're just regular people who were trying to help the candidate we believe in. Dr. Paul himself outlined a delegate strategy, and we employed this effort, to great success.

There are five Congressional Districts in Oklahoma. Each has 3 Delegates and 3 Alternates to the National Convention. While fighting the party establishment, the Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich campaigns, and Al Gerhart/the National Campaign, the "grassroots" managed to win 9 of 15 delegates, and 13 of 15 alternates. At the state convention, where 25 more delegates and alternates are chosen, we managed to bring over 700 people as delegates and had a majority on the first Credentials Report, the second voice vote amended one, the third illegally expanded one, but not the fourth and final illegally amended and expanded one. Even though we lost, we challenged them on their cheating and took it to the Committee on Contests, the RNC, and finally the Credentials Committee of the National Convention - AT OUR OWN EXPENSE AND WITH ZERO HELP FROM THE NATIONAL CAMPAIGN.

Tell me more about your hero Al Gerhart, parocks.

 

[acptulsa]

Tell me more about your hero Al Gerhart, parocks.

I invite anyone to compare Gerhart's statement on DP with Charles Key's writings, which I believe can be found on the web, and decide for themselves who they would have followed. Yes, parocks will not follow until someone becomes 'official', but I know for a fact that there are more open minds on this forum.

 

[parocks]

In case anyone was wondering - we WON in Maine. And LOST in Oklahoma.

***************************

Ron Paul wins majority of delegates from Maine GOP - USA Today 5/7/12
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-05-06/ron-paul-maine-gop/54794126/1

In votes leading to the close of the two-day Maine convention, Paul supporters were elected to 21 of the 24 delegate spots from Maine
to the GOP national convention in Tampa, Fla. The 24th delegate's seat goes to party Chairman Charles Webster,
who has remained uncommitted throughout the process.
Making the Paul takeover complete was the election of Paul supporters to a majority of the state committee seats.

******************************

Oklahoma Republicans elect delegates to national convention
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-republicans-elect-delegates-to-national-convention/article/3675104

Backers of GOP presidential contender Ron Paul came up short Saturday in their attempt to elect their slate of delegates to the national convention
during a raucous state convention — hindered by fights over rules and a physical altercation between opposing delegates.

Paul supporters, who numbered about 600 and made up about 40 percent of the convention, used various parliamentary procedures to contest rules.

The slate of 25 delegates and 25 alternates selected at the Oklahoma Republican State Convention were elected by voice vote.

The Paul supporters submitted their own slate of delegates and alternates, but they failed to get enough votes to amend convention rules
to let delegates vote on both slates.

Instead, the convention delegates selected a slate of delegates and alternates to the national convention that was put together
by the party's executive committee from about 200 applicants, state Republican Party Chairman Matt Pinnell said.

 

[kathy88]

This is not about Benton. I'm not talking about Benton. This has to do with doing what the state director says.

And who do you imagine the state directors were getting their marching orders from? It's not a stretch.

 

[parocks]

Your boots were not on the ground here. Therefore, you have no call and no right to shove your boots up our asses.

You missed the point. We did what we did, and it not only worked better than what this guy was saying we should do, but it worked just exactly as well as what you did. And now it's done. So, now that what's done is done and will never be undone, and now that our record is just as good as yours, you get to deal with it. Especially since you people spent a little time in the parking lot yourselves.

And I think you know that I'm no easier to stifle than you are. Especially when I'm defending someone as worthy as Charles Key. We are not the enemy, parocks. And you can armchair quarterback all you want, but you still don't know what our battlefield looked like...

You LOST in OK

We WON in ME

 

[parocks]

And who do you imagine the state directors were getting their marching orders from? It's not a stretch.

It doesn't matter.

You follow what the official campaign director says.

 

[CapitalistSooner]

Sigh - pay attention PAROCKS. Here is the breakdown for delegates from Oklahoma:

RNC Members (State Chair, National Committeeman, National Committeewoman) - 3

Delegates Elected at Congressional District Conventions: 15 (3 from each of the 5 Districts)
NOTE - these people run as individuals, make a speech in front of their District Convention, and campaign as an individual to get elected.

Delegates Elected at State Convention: 25
NOTE - these people run as a "slate" that is selected by the State GOP Executive Committee. To nominate your own slate, you must defeat that one first.

Total Delegates from Oklahoma: 43

Number of Ron Paul Delegates elected at Congressional Districts: 9/15
We lost state due to violations of the rules, which as previously stated we challenged on our own, ultimately failing - just like Maine, and all the others.

So, the Ron Paul campaign did not win any "bound" delegates because the statewide vote did not get to 15%, which was the threshold to qualify. When Santorum and Gingrich dropped out, those bound to them became free to vote their conscience. Which I did, since I was bound to Santorum until I was released.

 

[parocks]

I invite anyone to compare Gerhart's statement on DP with Charles Key's writings, which I believe can be found on the web, and decide for themselves who they would have followed. Yes, parocks will not follow until someone becomes 'official', but I know for a fact that there are more open minds on this forum.

Oh, I know there are lots of "open minds" here. You seem to think that Presidential campaigns haven't happened before.

You follow the instructions of the official campaign. That's what you do. You don't decide for yourself what you want to do. That's what CRAZY people do.

 

[parocks]

Sigh - pay attention PAROCKS. Here is the breakdown for delegates from Oklahoma:

RNC Members (State Chair, National Committeeman, National Committeewoman) - 3

Delegates Elected at Congressional District Conventions: 15 (3 from each of the 5 Districts)
NOTE - these people run as individuals, make a speech in front of their District Convention, and campaign as an individual to get elected.

Delegates Elected at State Convention: 25
NOTE - these people run as a "slate" that is selected by the State GOP Executive Committee. To nominate your own slate, you must defeat that one first.

Total Delegates from Oklahoma: 43

Number of Ron Paul Delegates elected at Congressional Districts: 9/15
We lost state due to violations of the rules, which as previously stated we challenged on our own, ultimately failing - just like Maine, and all the others.

So, the Ron Paul campaign did not win any "bound" delegates because the statewide vote did not get to 15%, which was the threshold to qualify. When Santorum and Gingrich dropped out, those bound to them became free to vote their conscience. Which I did, since I was bound to Santorum until I was released.

How about this:

Oklahoma Republicans elect delegates to national convention
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-republicans-elect-delegates-to-national-convention/article/3675104

Backers of GOP presidential contender Ron Paul came up short Saturday in their attempt to elect their slate of delegates to the national convention
during a raucous state convention — hindered by fights over rules and a physical altercation between opposing delegates.

Paul supporters, who numbered about 600 and made up about 40 percent of the convention, used various parliamentary procedures to contest rules.

The slate of 25 delegates and 25 alternates selected at the Oklahoma Republican State Convention were elected by voice vote.

The Paul supporters submitted their own slate of delegates and alternates, but they failed to get enough votes to amend convention rules
to let delegates vote on both slates.

Instead, the convention delegates selected a slate of delegates and alternates to the national convention that was put together
by the party's executive committee from about 200 applicants, state Republican Party Chairman Matt Pinnell said.

 

[CapitalistSooner]

Again, this covers part of the story, and gets part of it wrong. 25 delegates and 25 alternates are chosen at the state convention. Each of the five Congressional Districts ALSO chooses 3 delegates and alternates, which adds up to a total delegation (including the 3 RNC members) of 83 people - 43 delegates and 40 alternates.

We numbered over 600 - we had a majority at 1221, which was the first Credentials Report. We had a majority at 1243, which was the amended by voice vote Credentials Report. We had a majority at 1318, which was the illegally expanded woops we made an error in counting total, and we did NOT have a majority at 1476, the final total which was also not legal - but we were unable to stop it. How do I know this? Because I was one of 3 people leading the floor fight, I was one of the 13 who challenged the results of the Convention all the way to the National Convention, and I was one of the National Delegates elected at a Congressional District - over the objection of Gerhart - on March 31st, a long time before the State Convention on May 12th.

If you would like to read all of the legal documents in our challenge, go to www.okliberty.com

 

[parocks]

Three of Oklahoma’s Delegate Votes Not Counted at Republican National Convention
http://blog.newsok.com/politics/201...ot-counted-at-republican-national-convention/

Only 40 of Oklahoma’s 43 delegate votes for president were counted Tuesday night, because of one absence and two supporters of Ron Paul
who refused to cast their votes for GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, even though they were bound to do so.
The roll call for the state was 34 votes for Romney and six for Rep. Ron Paul, who ran unsuccessfully for the Republican nomination.