The Police State Vs. Occupy Wall Street: This Is Not Going To End Well For Any Of Us

[Kylie]

I cannot support violence. I did support the OWS protests, until they got violent.

 

[Miss Annie]

I believe the "peace" was a facade to try to attract people into the movement and get good citizens behind them.
When we stop and look at the people, associations, groups, and organizations that have backed this movement from the beginning... it kinda gives one the willies.

The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.
Adolf Hitler

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini

Let us have a dagger between our teeth, a bomb in our hands, and an infinite scorn in our hearts.
Benito Mussolini

The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative.
Benito Mussolini

Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem.
Joseph Stalin

It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.
Joseph Stalin

One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.
Joseph Stalin

We don't let them have ideas. Why would we let them have guns?
Joseph Stalin

The Liberal State is a mask behind which there is no face; it is a scaffolding behind which there is no building.
Benito Mussolini

The truth is that men are tired of liberty.
Benito Mussolini

If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
Adolf Hitler

It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.
Adolf Hitler

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
Adolf Hitler

The art of leadership... consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention.
Adolf Hitler

The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force.
Adolf Hitler

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.
Adolf Hitler

Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
Adolf Hitler

The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.
Adolf Hitler

Democracy is the road to socialism.
Karl Marx

 

[pcosmar]

I believe the "peace" was a facade to try to attract people into the movement and get good citizens behind them.

Actually,, you have that backwards.
It was entirely peaceful till attacked BY POLICE.

As far as the beginnings and and original purpose.
http://ampedstatus.org/network/about/

It’s time to mobilize and aggressively move on common sense political reforms.

As long as the economy and government are rigged by the top economic 0.1%, we will all lose.

The economic top one-tenth of one percent of the population has launched an economic war against us. They have consolidated tens of trillions of dollars. We now have the highest and most severe inequality of wealth in history. While there are a record number of people currently living paycheck to paycheck, in debt, unemployed, underemployed, without healthcare, on food stamps and in poverty; as our society is breaking down, global bankers have taken our tax dollars and given themselves all-time record-breaking bonuses. The same people who destroyed our economy have been given trillions of dollars in national wealth.

As a broad-based network representing people across the political spectrum, we are working together to reach common ground and fight for pivotal political reforms. Members of this social network are part a decentralized movement that has two goals:

1) End the System of Political Bribery (campaign finance, lobbying, revolving door)
2) Break Up the “Too Big To Fail” Banks and the Federal Reserve

These are the two key issues that we must urgently rally around and support. Unless we organize and take decisive action, we will all suffer the consequences of our collective inaction. Any politician who does not support these issues must be voted out of office and replaced by people who will aggressively fight on these fronts.

The other influences that you mention are a part of the Co-Opting of the movement.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

It is no sense arguing with these anti-OWS people on here. They are to caught up in their own pride and sense of self worth than to have sympathy for the uninformed, uneducated and unrepresented masses. Ron Paul supports them, that is all that matters at this point. I say, onward with the destruction, it's been a long time comin'....

I'm personally anti-OWS because of all the people who are promoting it and because of the words and actions of the people out there. The minority of well-minded people out there are going to be purged from the movement as it escalates. But go ahead and align yourself with OWS and stop some people trying to drive on roads and stop legitimate commerce, that will really help turn our country around

 

[Becker]

Alex Jones on Homeland Security infiltrating OWS

RT
Thursday, November 17, 2011

The Occupy Wall Street movement has been under fire in the past week. Police in riot gear have raided camps from coast to coast.

And again videos and photos have surfaced of the police brutality that has been taking place towards the non-violent protester.

Alex Jones sympathizing with OWS people who he demonizes as communists and globalists?

Why does the DHS need to "infiltrate" OWS if it was "them" and "their own" to begin with?

Why do the police need to brutalize the people they allegedly work with? Do the people who are brutalized know their role on the stage?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Alex Jones sympathizing with OWS people who he demonizes as communists and globalists?

Why does the DHS need to "infiltrate" OWS if it was "them" and "their own" to begin with?

Why do the police need to brutalize the people they allegedly work with? Do the people who are brutalized know they're role on the stage?

It's "their" FFS, ARGGHHH! "They're" means "they are". Get it right!

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Alex Jones sympathizing with OWS people who he demonizes as communists and globalists?

I've listened to his show and he's talked of the legitimacy of their concern with the fraudulent system repeatedly. He has also talked about his desire to bring the sincere and the legitimate Tea Party people together to fight the true source of the problem which is the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government. The communist globalist solutions (which seem to be espoused by the majority of the people at these Occupy protests) are what he has denounced.

 

[osan]

Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics
OWS as a whole, is going to destroy the global economy, and they don't even care..

I hope so.

Whoa there...

The global economy is a lie as it is anyway.

On the whole I would call this close enough to truth on one hand. On the other, however, the lives of billions of people depend on that lie. To hope for the sudden dissolution of this unspeakably corrupt and rigged system of economic empire is to hope for the deaths of perhaps as many has half of those people, perhaps even more. You cannot just tear down this house of cards. It must be taken down piecemeal and at a rate such that the market is sustained so that people do not starve, freeze, and die of disease. Seriously, you and all who think like you had better get clued on this because your families and friends stand to be among those meeting their makers in exquisitely unpleasant ways if this system comes down in a flash-cut.

I fully agree with you that the lie must be put to rest, but in a controlled fashion and not at the velocity that only violent revolution and natural catastrophe provide.

It seems fairly clear that the Occupy-x factions nationwide and perhaps even worldwide are pretty determined to be heard and satisfied. If this indeed be the case, then people such as ourselves should be out there in an attempt to help our fellows, misguided as they may be in many ways, to get their heads straight insofar as what exactly it is that we should be working toward. I have no idea how this will end, whether with a whimper or with a horrific bang. I do not know whether this poses any real threat to the lie that is our current system. What I do know is that this presents a rare opportunity to at least make the effort to help shape the thoughts and opinions of what could prove to be a very large number of people and to help them become aware of and to focus upon not only what really needs attention in terms of what we should be doing, but also what we should be assiduously avoiding.

Hoping for collapse? I strongly recommend you think about that very carefully and re-task those hopes to something that is not likely to end up with yourself either dead or dying.

What do you think re-introducing the gold standard would do?

It depends largely on how it would be reintroduced. But yes, even so someone would be taking it in the neck in some way and degree. It is a sore corner into which the money-masters have painted us all. This table could, however, be turned on them with enough determination, support, and a smart strategy backed with an incredibly well contrived plan of action. I am not very optimistic that this has much chance of occurring.

But you know what? it'd be worth it. After the correction took place, prices would drop and the national and world economy would get back on a sure footing as the dollar came to a stable legitimate worth.

After the correction, I would give your chances of being alive not much better than 50%.

In the long run you and your children would have less dollar bills, but each bill would be worth much more and having more buying power.

This may or may not prove the case because the truth will be predicated on how the monetary system were implemented and administered in the wake of such a correction, assuming those of us left were not living in the fifth century. But even if we assume the best happens, which is not really so very likely given a cursory peek at the human record on such matters, what you claim is still irrelevant because the key question upon which "wealth" turns is purchasing power. If I have 1/10 as many dollars but my dollars are worth 10 times more, my net position is not improved and may well be actually worse, depending on how pricing follows the changes in currency. But in the best scenario, I am as wealthy after as I was before. The ONLY way I improve my lot, all else equal (e.g. pricing is perfectly synced with the monetary correction), is if my purchasing power increases. For example, if I have 1/10 as many dollars but each is worth, say, 11 times as much, then I have experienced a ten percent gain in purchasing power in general terms.

But that is not necessarily good news because in that case presumably the same may be said for everyone else. If purchasing rises by ten percent, then prices will rise as demand outstrips supply. The factor that stands to be our salvation here is if spending does NOT rise in proportion to the nominal rise in wealth that such a correction represents. That is, the nominal rise in wealth will strengthen and stabilize the broader economy if people take that incremental rise in wealth and SAVE IT.

The true reason that our fiat currency system has failed is PRECISELY because we SPEND all the money we "print". There is NOTHING wrong with fiat money per sé. The problems arise from mismanagement of such money systems, which reduces them to MERE CURRENCY SYSTEMS. Were the dollar competently and honestly administered, it would be an utterly fabulous store of wealth, at least under nominal living conditions (asteroid doesn't strike earth and so forth). This is what people do not understand about money, even many of those in these forums. The purpose of money is to act as a wealth sink. Its precise form, e.g. coin and paper, are nothing more than mediums of exchange. So long as the amount of that medium accurately reflects the real value it is supposed to represent from one day to another, used toilet paper could serve the purpose. The reason gold has been successful is that it CANNOT BE COUNTERFEITED save by the most difficult means (e.g. tungsten salting). The reason the fiat dollar has been a failure in terms of the stated role of money as a store of value is that the ratio of money units (dollars) to the units of real value represented keeps climbing and this is due almost entirely to the endless pyramiding of newly borrowed funds that has been used to finance our unwillingness to do without. Government funds a billion different programs that produce zero or less return, not to mention endless warring which represents the ultimate example of the glazier's fallacy. Banks have borrowed endlessly to provide, propagate, and perpetuate economically unsound financial instruments (e.g. most derivatives, as well as the various "bubbles") via the conduits of the various investing operations. They provide the means to investment companies to in turn provide to end customers every manner of snake oil and other stupidity that springs forth in the wakes of market fits of spontaneous and unbridled avarice.

It is not, therefore, the fiat money system per sé, that causes the problems we see, but rather our corruption as people and as nations. Rome had a stable gold standard as was also found in Byzantium, yet those systems came crashing down in the end. Was it because gold was not a good standard? No. It was due SOLELY to human corruption that lead to the debasement of the monies until they became nothing more than hollow currencies. The ONLY difference between material standards (e.g. gold) and pure fiat monies is that the latter makes it easier to debase the store of value because there is no material manipulation required, not even a printing press today, but only a ledger entry. THAT is the root of the money problem and NOT the standard on which a given money is based. Any monetary system can be corrupted, as has been demonstrated apodictically on innumerable occasions throughout the history of human economic affairs. End corrupt and inept management and ANY money system will serve well.

The government couldn't afford international illegal wars and expansive policing powers.

Sure they could. They would just have to work a lot harder for them. In time, however, you would perhaps prove correct because debasement is readily detected where an open and accessible material standard is used, in which case the only remaining question would be whether people would tolerate the perfidy. Sadly, the human record there provides nothing much in the way of good promise for future possibilities. I would suggest, however, that such a standard would be completely closed to the public. So here we see that a gold standard is not enough to better guarantee honest money. That money must of necessity be CONVERTIBLE ON DEMAND. It is the issue of convertibility that is is a necessary element in sound money based on precious metals. Without it, there is nothing to prevent bad things from going on behind closed doors.

They would literally not have enough money. You would be freer. Everyone would be better off.

In the most practical terms, this is probably true, but I would not get overly confident.

So I say let it come. Destroy the world economy. It has to happen. We just have to be sure we are in a place to pick up the pieces.

Verily and forsooth do you need to dispense with this opinion, for it is based in sheer and utter madness.

 

[osan]

It's the mob mentality. People are seduced by this big group and feeling like they're apart of something large that they'll support them no matter what they're up to.

Do not paint with too broad a brush as we bear in mind that others could say the same about those in support of Ron Paul. Keep your head cool, deliberate, and patient. Take all caution and care in the formulation of not only your opinions but in how you choose to express them. The right opinion is lost if the means of expression are poorly constructed.

I admonish all of you in this way, including myself. As our contemporary world dances on the edge of an ever sharper razor, proper communication becomes ever more critical. At no time in human history has clear, complete, and accurate communication been more frighteningly essential than we find today.

I have deeply contemplated the hazards of trying to communicate in a world that doesn't speak, but rather makes mostly indecipherable grunting and whinging noises. The specter of this reality intensifies in its fright value with each passing day. We, the literate and ARTICULATE are perhaps the only hope left to the race. How I hope that this belief is a gross exaggeration, but fear it is not.

 

[phill4paul]

It ALL is engineered. Those that participate do not know that they are being guided by forces that they are unaware of. Poor sots. Poor us.

 

[osan]

Some good quotes, but this one stands our for me.

The truth is that men are tired of liberty.
Benito Mussolini

This may either show the power of taking a quote out of context or that of a half-truth.

What is missing is the part that tells us WHY men are tired, the unsatisfying short version being that they were taught and encouraged to become that way. A marginally more elaborate explanation comes from uncle Adolph per your quote that nutshells things nicely enough:

Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
Adolf Hitler

I would add that in reality while men may indeed have tired of liberty, it is not liberty that made them so but rather the intolerable stresses that have been imposed upon us all, be they social, political, or economic. People have been very systematically broken down through morbid levels and sorts of stress that have in many cases been artificially introduced in such a manner as their true sources are hidden behind painted on masks that read "freedom" and "capitalism", thereby driving the less astute, average man to confuse freedom and prosperity with the underlying tyrannies that have foisted these toxic social and economic conditions upon the broader population. It is no wonder so many have been reduced to so exhausted and wretched a state such that all they want is for someone else to take over and relieve them of their burdens - burdens which show no hope of ever relenting. It is no wonder people want socialistic states so that they can take a rest.

The puppeteers are far and away more clever than most people will likely ever be able to accept, much less figure out on their own. Overcoming them, if it is even remotely possible, will require at least a full generation, probably more. People have to come to realize that the most powerful weapon on this planet is the human mind. The masters know this all too well, which is why they have seized wholesale control of the minds of the great mass of people and are hanging on like pit bulls. Prying those jaws loose will take not only uncommon smarts, but even more uncommon determination.

 

[Becker]

I cannot support violence. I did support the OWS protests, until they got violent.

you don't support our founding fathers?

 

[Becker]

Damn! I wish this thing had just died. Why does it have to turn out like this? Why do people have to be "loyal" to this movement?

yeah, good question. Don't they rather the lazy and undedicated ones simply went home, rather than complain later that somebody "infiltrated" us?

Why continue this silly plea to "meet them in person" when we already know what we're going to get, most likely?

Sure, go talk to someone one-on-one if you really want to, but stay the hell out of the protest! This is madness.

 

[Becker]

It's "their" FFS, ARGGHHH! "They're" means "they are". Get it right!

corrected it, sorry very much. I usually get these things right.

 

[Becker]

I've listened to his show and he's talked of the legitimacy of their concern with the fraudulent system repeatedly.

He has also talked about his desire to bring the sincere and the legitimate Tea Party people together to fight the true source of the problem which is the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government.

Yes, he wants to turn somebody else's movement into his own, otherwise he'll denounce them.

The communist globalist solutions (which seem to be espoused by the majority of the people at these Occupy protests) are what he has denounced.

Legitimate concern with wrong solutions. ok.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Some good quotes, but this one stands our for me.



This may either show the power of taking a quote out of context or that of a half-truth.

What is missing is the part that tells us WHY men are tired, the unsatisfying short version being that they were taught and encouraged to become that way. A marginally more elaborate explanation comes from uncle Adolph per your quote that nutshells things nicely enough:



I would add that in reality while men may indeed have tired of liberty, it is not liberty that made them so but rather the intolerable stresses that have been imposed upon us all, be they social, political, or economic. People have been very systematically broken down through morbid levels and sorts of stress that have in many cases been artificially introduced in such a manner as their true sources are hidden behind painted on masks that read "freedom" and "capitalism", thereby driving the less astute, average man to confuse freedom and prosperity with the underlying tyrannies that have foisted these toxic social and economic conditions upon the broader population. It is no wonder so many have been reduced to so exhausted and wretched a state such that all they want is for someone else to take over and relieve them of their burdens - burdens which show no hope of ever relenting. It is no wonder people want socialistic states so that they can take a rest.

The puppeteers are far and away more clever than most people will likely ever be able to accept, much less figure out on their own. Overcoming them, if it is even remotely possible, will require at least a full generation, probably more. People have to come to realize that the most powerful weapon on this planet is the human mind. The masters know this all too well, which is why they have seized wholesale control of the minds of the great mass of people and are hanging on like pit bulls. Prying those jaws loose will take not only uncommon smarts, but even more uncommon determination.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to osan again.

This is post cuts right to the heart of it... of everything, really.

Thank you, once again.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I think it's only going to get bigger. The first days I nearly laughed, seeing a few dozen people just sitting around. Now seeing thousands marching is awesome. There's lots of people out there that want to protest and do something, but felt like they would be alone. Those kinds of people are the ones that keep joining it. I would join it, too, if I didn't have as many responsibilities as I do. I love seeing them pushing away the fences now. Not advocating violence, but resistance--say no to being caged like livestock.

Also, what are we supposed to do when the law enforcers are the ones breaking the law? What the **** gives them the right to use chemical weapons (tear gas, pepper spray) Nothing. As a matter of fact, under the Chemical Weapons Convention, Pepper Spray is ILLEGAL to use in warfare. To serve and protect WHO?

 

[moostraks]

What is missing is the part that tells us WHY men are tired, the unsatisfying short version being that they were taught and encouraged to become that way. A marginally more elaborate explanation comes from uncle Adolph per your quote that nutshells things nicely enough:

Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
Adolf Hitler

I would add that in reality while men may indeed have tired of liberty, it is not liberty that made them so but rather the intolerable stresses that have been imposed upon us all, be they social, political, or economic. People have been very systematically broken down through morbid levels and sorts of stress that have in many cases been artificially introduced in such a manner as their true sources are hidden behind painted on masks that read "freedom" and "capitalism", thereby driving the less astute, average man to confuse freedom and prosperity with the underlying tyrannies that have foisted these toxic social and economic conditions upon the broader population. It is no wonder so many have been reduced to so exhausted and wretched a state such that all they want is for someone else to take over and relieve them of their burdens - burdens which show no hope of ever relenting. It is no wonder people want socialistic states so that they can take a rest.

The puppeteers are far and away more clever than most people will likely ever be able to accept, much less figure out on their own. Overcoming them, if it is even remotely possible, will require at least a full generation, probably more. People have to come to realize that the most powerful weapon on this planet is the human mind. The masters know this all too well, which is why they have seized wholesale control of the minds of the great mass of people and are hanging on like pit bulls. Prying those jaws loose will take not only uncommon smarts, but even more uncommon determination.

Eloquent and concise writing that beautifully describes the magnitude of the problems we face. Anyone who doubts this last paragraph is living in a vacuum to say the least. I was aghast at the behavior of social services a few years back when we had our run ins with them because of what they took issue with us on was that we were not mainstreaming our children. The state is greatly concerned that everyone participates in the group think propaganda. If you do not they will do their best to find you guilty of some crime to make an example to others who may stray too far off the farm. When I asked each entity we were forced to cooperate with why we were being hassled repeatedly we were told it was "because we were different". Look at the ridiculous nature of some things which the state is legislating against-handmade toys, homegrown food,herbal healthcare, and not living on the grid. Now each of these can have a convincing enough argument made for safety reasons but don't most people who embark on these consumer choices generally know the risks we are taking? What it does do is tie you to the mainstream options that the government will deem code compliant. As long as "they" control the choices they can manipulate the culture. The insidious nature of the agenda by those behind the scenes is unfathomable by the majority because they are too busy trying to survive. I would never have believed it had I not witnessed the mask slip and seen the beast reveal itself.

 

[Miss Annie]

First of all, I posted the quotes as a demonstration of the perspectives of the supporters the OWS. I did not mean to imply that i agreed with that quote, consider the source!
I understand that people, the 99%, the victims of the establishment and the status quo are hurting. We are ALL victims of those entities.
This is what I REALLY, REALLY don't understand, and please feel free to correct me because I would rather be corrected than continue to have skewed thinking on the subject..... but if you are in a war and you see yourself in the same foxhole with Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini - do you not maybe question whether or not you are fighting on the right side of the line?
I do understand the seriousness of the amount of rhetoric, deception, and propaganda that is involved here. That is why so many of the quotes that I posted were on the topic of lies. But still, it seems to me that the beast is showing itself more and more each day, especially to the faces of the OWS crowd with the signs that they march beside. Am I making sense here?

 

[squarepusher]

Bullshit.
The Global Economy is already being destroyed. By the very bankers that created it.

These people are just pissed at that reality.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?330008-Some-History

this. putting the economic collapse on OWS is ludacris