**The Official** Republican Convention thread

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Deja vu... :mad:



 
Cruz/Romney, probably.

Utah's Mormons have been the big push behind the #Nevertrump nonsense from early on.

I had no opinion one way or the other about Mormons until recently, but they're as crazily clannish as Zionists,...and their religious beliefs were dictated by a magic rock.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2802019-155/mormon-church-to-release-more-documents

The LDS Church provided a new glimpse of its origins Tuesday by publishing the handwritten "printer's manuscript" of the Book of Mormon and photos of the "seer stone," a dark, egg-size polished rock founder Joseph Smith claimed to have used to produce the faith's sacred scripture.
 
Carlybee said:
Yep. Nothing says liberty like having Rudy Giuliani as a main speaker.
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Having Rudy Giuliani as a speaker is a mixture of politics and personal friendship, but has little to do with policy unless Giuliani is speaking in support of Trump's policies which are not globalist, neocon policies. It will be interesting to see what Giuliani says and how he says it. Thankfully, he did not become our president.
 
"And they were shut-down with some BS about some States rescinding their prior calls for a roll call vote. "

Indeed, and they did the same thing to us or would have. Even the "USA! USA!" chants were the same as four years ago.

I think North Korean politburo meetings have more democracy than this.

I understand they had the votes to turn a minority report down but geez louise would it have hurt them just to take a vote? This is a convention you know! It's ridiculous. When was the last time the GOP had a vote on a minority resolution, 1976?

I guarantee you during the roll call Cruz will not put his name nomination even though he has the eight states needed to be nominated. There will be a lot of uncounted votes Tuesday night.
 
At least this time it's front page everywhere. Trump could have had a real chance to win if he had the whole of the party behind him. He will have to buy volunteers like Mitt 2012 did.
 
CPUd said:
I remember we had these in 2012:



They are trying to force a roll call vote on the rules package.
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It failed like all #NeverTrump attempts to overturn the will of the GOP primary voters.
 
PoliPsy said:
It failed like all #NeverTrump attempts to overturn the will of the GOP primary voters.
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You don't completely understand what is going on here. There are some delegates who are against Trump, but what they did in the Rules Committee pissed off the whole of the grassroots, same as 2012. The RNC moved further to centralize power, and Trump had no problem standing with them.
 
" The RNC moved further to centralize power, and Trump had no problem standing with them. "

Of course, because Trump needs the party to basically run his campaign in each state. He's not going to pay for that himself. He wants to make a profit out of all this. So that's the deal, Trump gives the party what they want which is more power and they give him what he wants which is the nomination.
 
The events today confirm something I had been wondering about since the 2012 RNC finished. I thought it was possible the RNC and GOP just hated Ron Paul and the ideas of liberty and that is why everything transpired the way it did. I'm sure they do hate Ron Paul and liberty, but that's not what was causing their poor behavior.

Instead, we saw nearly the identical thing happen today, with different opponents, different presumptive nominees, and different ideologies that had nothing to do with what RP espoused. I think this tells us it's more about the ironclad grip of power they want to maintain over the process, rather than keeping the ideas of liberty and freedom out of RNC discussion.

The only difference this time, is the media coverage of this event has increased dramatically, specifically the attention to the events on the floor, whereas in 2012 it was almost completely glossed over.
 
Champuckett said:
The events today confirm something I had been wondering about since the 2012 RNC finished. I thought it was possible the RNC and GOP just hated Ron Paul and the ideas of liberty and that is why everything transpired the way it did. I'm sure they do hate Ron Paul and liberty, but that's not what was causing their poor behavior.

Instead, we saw nearly the identical thing happen today, with different opponents, different presumptive nominees, and different ideologies that had nothing to do with what RP espoused. I think this tells us it's more about the ironclad grip of power they want to maintain over the process, rather than keeping the ideas of liberty and freedom out of RNC discussion.

The only difference this time, is the media coverage of this event has increased dramatically, specifically the attention to the events on the floor, whereas in 2012 it was almost completely glossed over.
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Yep. The press is reporting it as an anti-Trump revolt, but it is the entire grassroots against the national party. Same in 2012, Ron had some support there, but after the RNC used the Rules Committee for a power grab, the whole grassroots joined us to oppose the rules package + help Ron get a floor nomination.
 
Champuckett said:
The events today confirm something I had been wondering about since the 2012 RNC finished. I thought it was possible the RNC and GOP just hated Ron Paul and the ideas of liberty and that is why everything transpired the way it did. I'm sure they do hate Ron Paul and liberty, but that's not what was causing their poor behavior.

Instead, we saw nearly the identical thing happen today, with different opponents, different presumptive nominees, and different ideologies that had nothing to do with what RP espoused. I think this tells us it's more about the ironclad grip of power they want to maintain over the process, rather than keeping the ideas of liberty and freedom out of RNC discussion.

The only difference this time, is the media coverage of this event has increased dramatically, specifically the attention to the events on the floor, whereas in 2012 it was almost completely glossed over.
Click to expand...

#NeverTrump (neocons, globalists, Establishment, status quo) is fighting to the last person, the last tactic - the last vote. This convention is their Alamo.
 
PoliPsy said:
#NeverTrump (neocons, globalists, Establishment, status quo) is fighting to the last person, the last tactic - the last vote. This convention is their Alamo.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't clear before, it's very clear now who the Trump people stand with:

Back to the 2012 “Ginsberg” rules, and what happened with them in 2016:

1) Rule 12: Team Trump/GOPe overwhelmingly voted to keep Rule 12 completely intact (86 to 23). Immediately after, Hatchet Evans suggested that the rest of the rules amendments that weren't directly related to the convention *should be referred to the RNC and not considered in the Convention Committee*, which would fundamentally transfer all national party authority from the Convention to the RNC. They apparently decided this would actually go too far to pass, so they pulled it down without a vote. The message is clear, though--the RNC/GOPe believes that the Convention has no actual governing role, and the RNC kings should decide everything.

2) Rule 15/16: No amendments were allowed, it's exactly the same as it was in 2012.

3) Rule 40b: This one was changed back to the 2008 version, then further tweaked in some very confusing ways. They claimed that in doing so they were responding to all the concerns from 2012 so everyone could move forward in unity, but as noted previously, while people reacted badly to this one it was always just a distraction.

So, they kept all the trash from 2012 that entire state parties have repudiated and the grassroots has complained unceasingly about—the very things that absolutely represented the GOPe power centralization takeover that got so many people fired up about the problems and interested in reforming the RNC.

Meanwhile, Every.Single.Amendment. brought by most of the good guys on the committee that sought to do *anything* was ordered voted down. No prisoners. This included things that were literally just cosmetic fixes or changes to update the rules to current practice under Reince. (I think Ross Little got one or two updates through early on, but nothing once the death march started.)

And of course, any change these good guys brought that were meant to give the grassroots a greater voice or just increase basic transparency was shot down. This included basic things like continuing to require having a parliamentarian at the 3 RNC meetings each year, requiring that RNC members be given notice of things they were going to vote on before they were asked to vote on them, moving some committees to elections instead of appointments, etc.

*These* are the kinds of things they killed and now have the Trump Train people crowing they beat as “defeating the unbound crowd”. They had nothing to do with unbinding, and everything to do with maintaining absolute control of the RNC by the Chair and his cronies. The hatchets didn't even claim in their debate it was anything else--they outright said they opposed these changes because the Chair should have all power, or that any such amendments were about attacking Reince specifically, vs. just having good, transparent policies regardless of who is chair.
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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?498056-RNC-Rules-Committee
 
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