The Neoconservative Reference List

[dillo]

We might as well make a list of republican senators, congressman and governors that aren't neo-cons, it will be a lot shorter.

Rand Paul
Thomas Massie
Justin Amash
Walter Jones

 

[Cabal]

Most names have a link embedded. Some, like McCain and Graham, should need no added description. Trying to keep it simple and stick with hardcore neoconservatives for now.

Presume nothing. If you want this list to serve an actual informative purpose, and be useful beyond superficial reference for those who are already aware, and already agree with it, there's going to need to be a standard for qualification. This list is going to largely be ambiguous and arbitrary so long as supporting evidence and citations that conform to a defined standard are not included.

And yes, that's going to take some time effort, but most things of value tend to require such. Luckily we have a forum of active users here who may be willing to research and contribute. I'd suggest creating a template for citation that people here can freely copy/paste to provide instances of 'proof of neo-conism.' They can then post their citations in this thread, where they can be verified, and the OP can be updated accordingly.

I recognize that McCain is a neo-con, and I can cite examples off the top of my head that supports this assertion; I'm sure you can, too. But there are still people out there that do not recognize him and others as such, and if they were to stumble upon this thread and see this list with no real explanation about the names on it, why should they take it with anything more than a grain of salt? I'd be inclined to disregard it were I such a person. So, that begs the question, what is the purpose? To reaffirm our own opinions and judgments that are already held? Or to be informative to those who may not already be aware, or have contrary opinions?

This has the potential to become a fairly valuable resource for effectively shaming the 'old guard' and RINOs, as it were; and it doesn't necessarily have to begin and end with neo-cons either.

//2 pennies

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

We might as well make a list of republican senators, congressman and governors that aren't neo-cons, it will be a lot shorter.

Rand Paul
Thomas Massie
Justin Amash
Walter Jones

John Duncan?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Presume nothing. If you want this list to serve an actual informative purpose, and be useful beyond superficial reference for those who are already aware, and already agree with it, there's going to need to be a standard for qualification. This list is going to largely be ambiguous and arbitrary so long as supporting evidence and citations that conform to a defined standard are not included.

And yes, that's going to take some time effort, but most things of value tend to require such. Luckily we have a forum of active users here who may be willing to research and contribute. I'd suggest creating a template for citation that people here can freely copy/paste to provide instances of 'proof of neo-conism.' They can then post their citations in this thread, where they can be verified, and the OP can be updated accordingly.

I recognize that McCain is a neo-con, and I can cite examples off the top of my head that supports this assertion; I'm sure you can, too. But there are still people out there that do not recognize him and others as such, and if they were to stumble upon this thread and see this list with no real explanation about the names on it, why should they take it with anything more than a grain of salt? I'd be inclined to disregard it were I such a person. So, that begs the question, what is the purpose? To reaffirm our own opinions and judgments that are already held? Or to be informative to those who may not already be aware, or have contrary opinions?

This has the potential to become a fairly valuable resource for effectively shaming the 'old guard' and RINOs, as it were; and it doesn't necessarily have to begin and end with neo-cons either.

//2 pennies

I'll eventually add a link to every name. But that is only one link. What I was thinking is that more information could be put into an individual post in this thread, and the name could link to that post. What kind of template did you have in mind?

You may not have noticed, but a website linked in the OP has done a lot of this work already. They have a very long list, with an article on each person. Of course we can always create a more conservative and liberty centric informational post right here.

 

[TaftFan]

John Duncan?

Definitely. He is on the RPI board too.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

We might as well make a list of republican senators, congressman and governors that aren't neo-cons, it will be a lot shorter.

Probably best not to mix a list of the "good" guys with the "bad" guys.

 

[thoughtomator]

It's fair to single out the neocon ringleaders, as the great bulk of them will follow whatever charismatic lead is properly packaged to their tastes. I expect that when the leadership fails, the rest will scatter rather than regroup.

Look at the neocon efforts to find a champion since Bush II fell from grace - they are really quite empty-handed. I know that the desperation level is extreme enough that some are seriously proposing John Bolton as a Presidential candidate.

 

[thoughtomator]

Also you can add to the list John Yoo and Andrew McCarthy, who were key propagandists in making an official torture policy palatable to the mainstream.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I noticed Jennifer Rubin's name on the list. I would also add other people in media who are/have been sympathetic to neoconservative politics:

Rush Limbaugh
Bill O'Reilly
Sean Hannity
Glenn Beck
Mark Levin

 

[Deborah K]

Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

 

[Philhelm]

There's so much overlap, isn't there? It goes without saying that RINOs (GOP neoconservatives) and Democrats take a lot of the same positions, and even more often, the same actions. And then there is also a lot of overlap of with what could be called "the establishment", the Plutocracy or the Oligarchy, which knows no Democrat or GOP Party boundaries.

If a Neoconservative and a Democrat both have their necks within a noose and fall at precisely the same time, which one's neck will snap first? I don't know the answer, but there's only one way to find out.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

I noticed Jennifer Rubin's name on the list. I would also add other people in media who are/have been sympathetic to neoconservative politics:

Rush Limbaugh
Bill O'Reilly
Sean Hannity
Glenn Beck
Mark Levin

Actually I'd just take Jennifer Rubin's name off the list, as well as John Hagee. I think both of them represent two kinds of people who don't belong on the list: third-rate journalists who are taken seriously by nobody, intellectually or otherwise, and die-hard Zionists who don't necessarily belong to the school of neoconservatism but rather the school of Israel-worship. There's a lot who fall into the second category, many of whom aren't really neoconservatives (see: Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz).

Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

Not a neoconservative at all.

Also, Richard Perle. A neocon among neocons. He must be added, even if he's not quite as extreme lately.

There's also a few Congressmen that are missing. Mike Rogers comes to mind. Pure scum.

And Jamie Fly is one of the key figures behind the scenes in neocon politics today.

 

[thoughtomator]

Actually I'd just take Jennifer Rubin's name off the list, as well as John Hagee. I think both of them represent two kinds of people who don't belong on the list: third-rate journalists who are taken seriously by nobody, intellectually or otherwise, and die-hard Zionists who don't necessarily belong to the school of neoconservatism but rather the school of Israel-worship. There's a lot who fall into the second category, many of whom aren't really neoconservatives (see: Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz).

Propaganda is a key element of every war. Goebbels wasn't given a pass just because his role was PR.

 

[Deborah K]

Actually I'd just take Jennifer Rubin's name off the list, as well as John Hagee. I think both of them represent two kinds of people who don't belong on the list: third-rate journalists who are taken seriously by nobody, intellectually or otherwise, and die-hard Zionists who don't necessarily belong to the school of neoconservatism but rather the school of Israel-worship. There's a lot who fall into the second category, many of whom aren't really neoconservatives (see: Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz).

Not a neoconservative at all.

Also, Richard Perle. A neocon among neocons. He must be added, even if he's not quite as extreme lately.

There's also a few Congressmen that are missing. Mike Rogers comes to mind. Pure scum.

And Jamie Fly is one of the key figures behind the scenes in neocon politics today.

This is what led me to believe he was:

In 2011, Brzezinski supported the NATO intervention against the forces of Muammar Gaddafi in the Libyan civil war, calling non-intervention "morally dubious" and "politically questionable".[32]

He's also argued in the past for increased military strength.

Using this atmosphere of insecurity, Brzezinski led the United States toward a new arms buildup and the development of the Rapid Deployment Forces – policies that are both more generally associated with Ronald Reagan now.

Brzezinski, known for his hardline policies on the Soviet Union, initiated in 1979 a campaign supporting mujaheddin in Pakistan and Afghanistan, which was run by Pakistani security services with financial support from the Central Intelligence Agency and Britain's MI6.[36] This policy had the explicit aim of promoting radical Islamist and anti-Communist forces.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Actually I'd just take Jennifer Rubin's name off the list, as well as John Hagee. I think both of them represent two kinds of people who don't belong on the list: third-rate journalists who are taken seriously by nobody, intellectually or otherwise, and die-hard Zionists who don't necessarily belong to the school of neoconservatism but rather the school of Israel-worship. There's a lot who fall into the second category, many of whom aren't really neoconservatives (see: Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz).

I would argue for keeping all of them on the list. If Rubin didn't have enough people reading her column, she would be gone. Israel-worship is responsible for recent neoconservative thinking. Glenn Beck (and to a degree, Sarah Palin too) have a pretty decent following and have both demonstrated an "Israel-first" mentality.

 

[Deborah K]

Is the litmus test whether you are an 'Israel Firster' or not? I always thought neo-conservatism was more about military interventionism than anything else.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Is the litmus test whether you are an 'Israel Firster' or not? I always thought neo-conservatism was more about military interventionism than anything else.

I think the two positions are connected since GWB's administration.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I noticed Jennifer Rubin's name on the list. I would also add other people in media who are/have been sympathetic to neoconservative politics:

Rush Limbaugh
Bill O'Reilly
Sean Hannity
Glenn Beck
Mark Levin

While those hosts have definitely pushed neoconservative and establishment foreign policy in the past, they have been allies in other areas. They are more in that category of agreeing with neoconservatives on foreign policy without being true neoconservatives. In an effort to be concise and to build alliances (big tent) rather than create division, I will leave them off the list. They have "come our way" to a much greater extent than anyone is willing to admit.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

I would put him more in the same category as Hillary and Obama.

See this post:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ves-The-List&p=5501288&viewfull=1#post5501288

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...Israel-worship is responsible for recent neoconservative thinking. Glenn Beck (and to a degree, Sarah Palin too) have a pretty decent following and have both demonstrated an "Israel-first" mentality.

Is the litmus test whether you are an 'Israel Firster' or not? I always thought neo-conservatism was more about military interventionism than anything else.

There is often overlap between different groups. This is an intersection that could be made into a rule, but only going one direction. It is safe to say that neoconservatives are "Israel-first", but the other direction is not true, i.e. all people who support Israel are not true neoconservatives. The majority probably have no idea what neoconservativism actually is (big government socialism) or it's history. And many Israel supporters know that they don't like prominent, naked neoconservative politicians like Lindsey Graham.