The Mistake was to not include everyone

[Mini-Me]

You have it all wrong by the way. The mistake was mix'in with the LP and Liberal crowds too much. Most Republicans never really accepted Ron Paul as a real Republican, until the very end, when he announced there was absolutly no chance of a 3rd party run.

Any liberal willing to support Ron Paul is off their rockers, just like an Republican not wanting to support Dr. Paul is off thir rockers, we woo'ed the wrong people.

I disagree here...I think that a lot of "liberals" and Democrats classify themselves as such not because they have a diehard belief in collectivism, but because they see something is terribly wrong with our system today and they want some change, any change. They just don't realize that the problem with our system is not capitalism but government. Plus, the Bush administration has turned a lot of people away from the Republicans solely because of the warmongering aspect - these people have run to the Democrats in the false hope that the Democrats will provide the country with a dose of sanity, but they're not necessarily antipathetic to Ron Paul's message.

In other words, most neocons are so deluded that they don't even see that we have a problem (except taxes). Liberals are a bit less deluded, because they see some serious problems with our economic system and foreign policy, but because of the way they've been indoctrinated, they jump to the wrong conclusions. I know this because I used to be a neocon, then I briefly considered libertarianism before I "realized" that unregulated markets are evil (because I was indoctrinated to falsely believe that our current system is a free market!), then I was essentially a liberal, and now I've finally begun to understand. Ron Paul's message resonates with anyone who's willing to listen and open to reason.

 

[Spirit of '76]

Interesting discussion here. I don't think that the problem has been so much Ron's decision to run within the GOP or a supposed unwillingness to welcome "liberals" (a term grossly misused in today's political environment) as it has been an unwillingness on the part of some people to listen to and respect Ron's reasoning on the matter of running as a Republican.

Some people apparently have such a knee-jerk reaction to the terms "Republican" or "GOP" that they just tuned out Ron's own words on the matter, in which he flat-out told us that the modern Republican Party is not what the Republican Party should be and that he's trying to save it from itself. I really don't think that the problem was in the grassroots not welcoming "liberals"; I think it was in the way many members of the grassroots were nominally supporting the most conservative, most traditional Republican in Congress, yet continued to insist that conservatism is flawed and the GOP not worth saving from the clutches of the neoconservative/Rockefeller RINOs.

Plenty of us here have said time and again, just as Ron himself has said, that there is still a libertarian, constitutionalist spark burning in the hearts of many rank-and-file Republicans, even if the party leadership has gone terribly astray. If more of us had just found it in us to reach out to Republican base, we may have had a chance.

Instead, too many of us persisted in our knee-jerk reactivity, referring to Republicans as "rethugs" or "repugs" and refusing to "get in bed with the neocon fascists of the GOP", never once stopping to think that when we said those things we were applying those labels to Ron Paul himself and to other like-minded lovers of Liberty who want to return the Republican Party to a sensible platform.

Sure, many in the GOP are beyond reach. Many have indeed been brainwashed. But I maintain that they are no more beyond reach and no more brainwashed than those among us who refused to reach out to them because of our own media-induced preconceptions of what it means to be "conservative" or "Republican" these days.

All along we've been looking at a shining example of what a true Republican should be, but even then too many of us have refused to reach out and share that example with the multitude of Republicans who have lost their way. For that, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

this is stupid. He was running to preserve REPUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVE ideals. He shouldn't reach out to people who believe in socialist collectivism and neither should we. Liberalism IS wrong. He isn't a liberal or a democrat, though i realize many people on these forums are. A pox on all of you, since you killed us in the primaries

 

[Kade]

sorry, but the "united" the Obama campaign is running on is a collectivist united, a One World Government united....not something we want.

Ron's not holding dear to the Republicans, he's holding dear to his message.

Where do you get this crap from?

 

[Kade]

this is stupid. He was running to preserve REPUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVE ideals. He shouldn't reach out to people who believe in socialist collectivism and neither should we. Liberalism IS wrong. He isn't a liberal or a democrat, though i realize many people on these forums are. A pox on all of you, since you killed us in the primaries

The grassroots movement was nothing without "liberals"... and you and your "unite behind Conservative Principles" campaign means nothing. Conservatism has no meaning!

When the movement started focusing on these so called "principles" it was a change of his message... and coupled with radical theocratic style fascists here... you get the picture.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

The grassroots movement was nothing without "liberals"... and you and your "unite behind Conservative Principles" campaign means nothing. Conservatism has no meaning!

When the movement started focusing on these so called "principles" it was a change of his message... and coupled with radical theocratic style fascists here... you get the picture.

this is exactly what i mean. A ron paul supporter condemning conservatism. It makes us look like a bunch of lefties. HE IS A GODDAMN REPUBLICAN, AND THE MOST CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC SERVANT IN THE UNITED STATES! The sooner you libs realize this and either reconcile that or leave the better.

 

[Signzit]

this is exactly what i mean. A ron paul supporter condemning conservatism. It makes us look like a bunch of lefties. HE IS A GODDAMN REPUBLICAN, AND THE MOST CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC SERVANT IN THE UNITED STATES! The sooner you libs realize this and either reconcile that or leave the better.

What you say is true, he is conservative. they know it too

 

[trispear]

Obama had the support of the MSM since he declared his candidacy. There was no mistake for him to make -- it was handed to him like the other top tier.

Also, Obama's talk is very shallow. The more I listen to his speeches (victory) the more I hear promises upon promises for more and more handouts we can't afford. Just more and more spending. Wonder where he is going to get the money?

Capitalism is not perfect; you'll share the bounty unevenly and seperately. Hardcore socialism is even worse; you all will share the misery together.

Yeah. Obama wants you to help him make change. Ron Paul wants you to help yourself make dollars.

 

[A rope leash]

I'm so far left it feels right to me...

What some might be failing to see is that the far left eventually comes full-circle to meet the far right. We both want a return to law in this country, specifically, a return to the word of the Constitution. Lefties may not be all that big on gun rights, but let us have our weed, and what do we care? Ron Paul is about getting us out of the empire business...how left can you get? It surprises me to see so many Republicans getting on this bandwagon of "get out now". Ron Paul does have a lot of "left appeal...but it has to be difficult to reach out to them when your running in party of Nixon and Reagan.

I think, on most ssues, Ron appeals more to the left than the major Democrats do. What he doesn't appeal to is the center...those who only want symbolic change, not real change. For all the talk about Obama's "change", I still have no idea what he's talking about. With Ron, it's pretty clear...no war, no drug war, troops home, get rid of the IRS and the Fed. Sounds great to this leftist...

 

[Kade]

this is exactly what i mean. A ron paul supporter condemning conservatism. It makes us look like a bunch of lefties. HE IS A GODDAMN REPUBLICAN, AND THE MOST CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC SERVANT IN THE UNITED STATES! The sooner you libs realize this and either reconcile that or leave the better.

Well smartass, how's your REPUBLICAN doing among REPUBLICAN voters?

 

[klamath]

Quit whining people, Everyone gets bashed on here, left and right. You can't put a bunch of former oposits together and expect to be kissing all the time.

 

[Signzit]

Quit whining people, Everyone gets bashed on here, left and right. You can't put a bunch of former oposits together and expect to be kissing all the time.

QTF!

 

[CountryboyRonPaul]

in this campaign. I have read too many inflammatory remarks about liberals on these Ron Paul forums. The Republicans don't want us, the Democrats don't want us.
He should have used the Obama line......UNITED.

The Republicans destroyed America, Ron Paul holding dear to them makes me sick.
Too bad, it was one shot to knock these traitors out of the box.

I'm willing to unite with anyone that holds similair Conservative Libertarian Ideals to Ron Paul.

However, big government, big taxing, entitlement state, anti second amendment ideas like Obama's don't quite fit in with the Ron Paul campaign.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

not all revolutions are good revolutions.

i think we need to distinguish between the conservatives and libertarians who want the constitution back, and the leftists who want a socialist-fascist state

 

[CountryboyRonPaul]

not all revolutions are good revolutions.

i think we need to distinguish between the conservatives and libertarians who want the constitution back, and the leftists who want a socialist-fascist state

Indeed, modern "Republicans" (more specifically Neo-Cons) are closer to the Democratic party that likes Government Intervention in all it's forms, whether it be to individuals, or to corporations, than they are to us.

There is actually a good explanation on Glenn Beck by Jonah Goldberg as I'm writing this about how Leftists are closer to fascism than the Right is. It's a misconsception that Fascism is extreme right-wing.

If Liberals agree with us, chances are they aren't as liberal as they think. If they are truly that liberal and they agree with us, chances are they have only heard Dr. Paul's position on Foreign Policy. Either way, I'm proud to have them with us, however, I'm going to explain what I see as a completely opposing viewpoint when I see it... And I see that opposite viewpoint in Barack Obama. If that offends someone, I don't really care, I have thick skin when it comes to criticism and I expect others to have it, or get away, anything less would be an opposition to the 1st Amendment.

Semi-Offtopic, but this is a great video on the hypocrasy of Liberal ideals, pseudo-Free Speech, and College campuses.

Penn & Teller - Bullshit - College 1/3
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hrR3Co8VAlo

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

Indeed, modern "Republicans" (more specifically Neo-Cons) are closer to the Democratic party that likes Government Intervention in all it's forms, whether it be to individuals, or to corporations, than they are to us.

There is actually a good explanation on Glenn Beck by Jonah Goldberg as I'm writing this about how Leftists are closer to fascism than the Right is. It's a misconsception that Fascism is extreme right-wing.


Penn & Teller - Bullshit - College 1/3
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hrR3Co8VAlo

i want to read liberal fascism. Jonah Goldberg i think said he would vote for ron paul if it weren't for his foreign policy views. but i digress. it is interesting though to see how fascism is really a "progressive" or liberal ideology