The message is getting lost (criticism from an independent)

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Dec 23, 2007
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I'm sad Paul didn't break 3rd in Iowa, but what's done is done.

I see folks are debating all kinds of things that "went wrong," but my take is that there are some more fundamental problems that somebody has to speak out about. Alan Keyes got 14% in previous Iowa Caucuses with less money. It's time to swallow a big dose of reality, folks. It's better than spinach.

I believe Paul can change america, regardless of whether he wins the nomination. His message is vital for the survival of the GOP and for the health of the nation. These are my observations... and I do not expect all Paul fans to like them, but honesty and sincerity is vital right now. After reading these thoughts, feel free to take them with a grain of salt. Just read them with an open mind and without the compulsion to hit "reply" before chewing on them.

Paul's message is getting lost.

1. His message is getting lost because of his presentation.

He is a wonderful critic of what's going on in the world. However, his being a critic gets expressed at debates with him basically shouting, relying on hyperbole and tearing at "everything." It's sloppy and unfocused. His strength is his ability to criticize what's going on, suggesting that basically the Neocons are insane and that the Republican party has lost its way... becoming big spenders, big government and not too honest. Ron Paul as-master-critic is what's driving interest in him. However, that isn't translating into votes.

He needs to stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room and start trying to rally people around a vision of a more sane world.

When he switches from critic to policy maker, he really loses people because he's all over the place and then starts talking about things which (I believe) seem so radical that folks just kinda tune him out on the spot. He ends up being perceived as a nutcase because he's going on about how Lincoln shouldn't have tried to abolish slavery or about how the IRS should be destroyed. As my mother says... "he's a funny little man." For the die-hard supporters, his personality and presentation isn't a big deal. Folks love him. Most americans, however, apparently DISLIKE him. They dislike him more than they dislike Hillary Clinton (according to Rasmussen). That's bad and needs serious reflection.

It's fine to have focused attention on how many people like him and give him money, but now is the time to also focus on why all the others DISLIKE him and don't respect him. It's constraining his message.

I'll be blunt.

Happily taking money from neonazis and being perceived to have support primarily from young, idealistic college students... doesn't play well.

Ranting about how Lincoln was "wrong" in trying to abolish slavery and fighting for a strong union? Come on... :confused:

2. His message is getting lost because of his more extreme libertarian talking points.

9/11 is all our fault? Abolish the IRS? Destroy the Dept of Education? Bring troops back from Korea? Abolish the Fed? I know the libertarians will find this offensive, but not all Paul fans are rabid libertarians and he IS running for the Republican nomination - not the libertarian nomination. He has important things to say, but these talking points are likely tuning people out.

His choice to continually emphasize some of these points is absurd. Destroy the Dept of Education? Even if he believes this, this is a horrible talking point and few would think it's even possible. While i suspect 9/10 Republicans would instinctively agree that a Federal bureaucracy should by scaled back and drastically cut... he's talking about just flat out destroying it. This doesn't play well to the public, folks. Nobody expects a President to get anything done if they have such strong, uncompromising views. The issue is emphasis. Far too many of his talking points are just so far outside the realm of political consciousness that he comes out sounding like a "funny little man." Thus, his more broad and vital message about foreign policy, state rights, federal power, etc... are all lost because all folks hear are "this guy wants to abolish taxes, put his head in the sand and then destroy the Department of Education."

If he wants to be taken seriously and get his broad message out, he needs to stop focusing on these "zinger" libertarian talking points which turn off voters. Criticism of the government is FINE, but people need to hear pragmatic stuff that makes them nod and remember you.

3. His message is getting lost because he's running for Critic-in-Chief, not President.

His demographic results in Iowa indicate he's resonating with young independents and liberals. That has to expand. Let's be honest. He should doing a lot better in New Hampshire with his libertarian ideas and blunt criticism of the Bush administration.

However, to break beyond his current numbers of basically angry young folks, he needs a clearer vision of what he'll do... of what he can accomplish as President. Frankly, the libertarian criticisms will not suffice. If this campaign is going to be anything more than having a libertarian at the debates, he needs to consolidate a clear vision of pragmatic, bi-partisan and populist actions he wants to take. It's fine to say he'd LIKE to abolish the IRS... but what would he actually get accomplished? People need to hear a practical vision of President Paul. As we all know, a President isn't King - he must work with Congress.

By comparison, the democrats are all running for Legislator-in-Chief which is why a more executive sounding Republican is likely to win. America will elect a Commander-in-Chief... not a Legislator-in-Chief and not a Critic-in-Chief. When is the last time USA elected a Congressman? 1960.

4. His message is getting lost because he isn't changing the terms of the debate.

Ron Paul is positioned to redefine the terms of the debate on issues like immigration, "the war on terror," government spending and such. Instead of getting caught up in the existing terms of the debate, he needs to have talking points which shatter them. I strongly believe people are ready to move beyond the current rhetoric. Today's political rhetoric is almost always extreme black & white.

Example: the "war."

You are either "pro-war" or "anti-war" in the MSM's spin machines. This is absurd and none of the GOP contenders have tried to move beyond this rhetoric.

Instead of representing himself as "anti-war" and being thus marginalized in the eyes of most voters (i dont think even most democrats are truly "anti-war"), Ron Paul should trash this entire way of talking. The dems blundered in 2007 along the same lines, pretending they had an anti-war mandate when it turns out this "surge" approach actually worked (by focusing on al qaeda). There's a lesson to be learned there.

Imagine this very simple line of argument, but put in Ron Paul terms:

  • Al qaeda attacked us and they are the enemy. A small band of criminals hiding behind religion.
  • We shouldn't be making up lots of new enemies because of 9/11.
  • Al qaeda is in afghanistan, pakistan and now in iraq (thanks to our illegal invasion)
  • We blew it at Tora Bora and then expanded this war to include half the planet. We compromised our own laws, our values and our liberties while pretending our survival depended on this nonsense. This is a complete failure and a disgrace.
  • This imaginary war against all evil doers and all extremists is going to destroy us from within. We need to focus on the real enemy.
  • Our soldiers shouldnt be dying for some imaginary crusade to force our culture everywhere. Our credibility has been destroyed.
  • We're making enemies instead of fighting our real ones.
  • This isn't about 'pro-war' or 'anti-war.' This is about being clear who the enemy is and what our mission is. You cannot win without a clear enemy and without a clear mission.
  • We need a President who will pick the right fights, stop making new enemies and focus on just dealing with the pack of criminals who attacked us on 9/11.
  • We can keep a strong military without being spread thin all over the world like some imperial force. The cold war is over. We need to stop behaving like the Roman Empire.

Sound like something Paul can say?

Instead of crying about how every soldier should be home and instead of falling into the "anti-war" category, he should shatter the terms of the discussion by focusing on al qaeda as the enemy. America needs a leader who can do this.

Instead of being marginalized by the existing terms of the discussion, he needs to CHANGE the discussion into something where a lot more people can accept new lines of thinking. You cannot run for Republican nomination as an "anti-war" candidate with al qaeda on the loose, folks. If he actually does think we should have gone after al qaeda... then he needs to hold onto that theme and break beyond this absurd anti-war/pro-war debate.

That's just one example.

He can and must do the same on several major issues, like immigration. What he was saying back in June 2007 made a lot more sense and was going to shake up the dialog. He retreated into the standard "border and security" rhetoric, trying to dodge amnesty. He needs to break beyond this "amnesty" rhetoric and get to the real problem... as he used to do.
 
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I like it. I think that you're right on in your messaging. But I don't think that you're going to get anywhere with Dr. Paul asking him to drop the issues he's been talking about for 30 years. Seriously... Find video of him from before 9/11. He's saying the exact same things then as he is now. Word for word in many cases.

Also, talking about the income tax is a seller. Maybe not for Democrats and government cheese types... But among Republicans, it's gold. That's why Huckabee started up with his "put a closed for business sign on the IRS" rhetoric. Stolen striaght from the Paul platform.

I definitely agree that Ron Paul needs a speech writer / coach. He likely doesn't think he needs one. He talks about his "trademarks." I'm not sure where he draws the lines on these trademarks... I think that he believes that he needs to get America past television politics, and into issue and idea driven politics...

The thing about Dr. Paul is that he'd rather be right than be president.
 
Ron Paul's message is getting lost because someone in his campaign tried to follow what the OP said, and started pandering.

Ron Paul just needs to be himself. You can remove issues like "no taxes on tips" as being a main issue. Ron Paul being himself lets the rest of us be ourselves.
 
The original poster is quite right in my opinion. Ron Paul needs to really improve his presentation, focus on articulating his stance on the core issues and provide a pragmatic roadmap to people to achieve his objectives. His message has to become less abstract and more tangible.

For example, on the issue of foreign policy, Dr Paul consistently says he is non-interventionist - talk, trade and travel with others. That's fine, but how would he still fight terrorism, once the troops were home, then what? Let the people know he wants to stop billion dollar handouts around the globe as well. How will his military policy give us a stronger national defense, how will he maintain our readiness in a crisis (which most see as inevitable). Ron Paul needs to state we have to sacrifice to get this country back on solid financial footing, but the sacrifice is going to start by cutting the money via war, occupation and free handouts while addressing our issues at home. American people are going to benefit in terms of a stronger fiscal policy at home which will enable him to cut taxes, shore up the US Dollar, etc- they come first.

Which leads me to the key of what Ron Paul needs to strategically consider for truly building up a presidential platform. People are very worried about the economy and it will get worse. People have long voted their "pocketbook". Therefore, most importantly, Dr Paul needs to frame the debate around his strongest area- the finanical crisis of this country. That is the hub of his platform. The spokes are Immigration, Iraq War, big government spending, etc that continue to feed the hub and has this country on the brink of financial disaster.

Show us your plan Dr. Paul. Provide Leadership and Direction.
 
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Ron Paul is about educating people, he's in it to win, but foremost he's about educating the real change occurs from him spreading the message more than by becoming president
 
Ron Paul is about educating people, he's in it to win, but foremost he's about educating the real change occurs from him spreading the message more than by becoming president
The thing is, I think he got in this race to educate people, with no intention of winning because he didn't believe it was possible. We have changed his mind, but the first 2/3 or more of his campaign, he wasn't even trying to win - just to educate. To do that, using hyperbole, shouting, and criticizing are great tools, but they alienated establishment people at the time. When he didn't think he could win, this wasn't a problem. Now it is. There are still people who think he would abolish much of the federal government on his first day in office, including the social security and medicare (or whatever other program) they depend on. Ron Paul needs to find a way to bring those people back into the fold. He needs to lay out clearly what a Ron Paul presidency actually looks like. Early on he didn't worry about what was possible or practical, only what was ideal. He needs to let people know what is possible and practical for him to do.
 
Ron Paul is about educating people, he's in it to win, but foremost he's about educating the real change occurs from him spreading the message more than by becoming president


I understand what you are saying, but as my name suggests, we need to win, not settle for a moral victory. IMO, this country can't afford moral victories any longer. He needs to galvanize his supporters and win new voters by building a strong platofrm that highlights DELIVERABLES to the American People.
 
I understand what you are saying, but as my name suggests, we need to win, not settle for a moral victory. IMO, this country can't afford moral victories any longer. He needs to galvanize his supporters and win new voters by building a strong platofrm that highlights DELIVERABLES to the American People.

I'll agree with some of that.
 
Some of what you say makes sense about his approach, but to say that he needs to start downplaying the libertarian views is nonsense. That's the whole appeal for his campaign.

Remember, he's not running for the Libertarian Party (with a capital "L"), he is a libertarian Republican. There's a difference.
 
Agree. Also:

HE MUST AVOID BRINGING UP ABOLISHING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

People are dumb Dr. Paul. Please stop bringing this up, it helps no-one.
 
One of Ronald Reagans key issues when he first ran was abolishing the Department of Education. It didn't seem so bad for him even though he didn't get the job done.

Ron Paul needs to hammer these things home even further! He just needs to explain himself a little better and explain how doing such a thing does not destroy education and actually helps it.
 
Ron Paul didn't get to this point by being different than he is, he got here by being exactly how he is. You assume that by being someone completely different, he would have done better. I say he would already be forgotten.

"he should shatter the terms of the discussion by focusing on al qaeda as the enemy."

Good grief. What do you think George Bush does at every opportunity? He changes the terms of the debate in Iraq by talking about how we have to fight Al Qaeda there.

You want a different Republican altogether. Sort of a Ron-Paul Lite.
 
One of Ronald Reagans key issues when he first ran was abolishing the Department of Education. It didn't seem so bad for him even though he didn't get the job done.

Ron Paul needs to hammer these things home even further! He just needs to explain himself a little better and explain how doing such a thing does not destroy education and actually helps it.
Yes, even Dole in 1996 ran on abolishing the DOE. Its destruction was a standard GOP plank for decades, so there is nothing unusual about it, and it is why RP is the "real Republican" of the 2008 race.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
 
Ron Paul is about educating people, he's in it to win, but foremost he's about educating the real change occurs from him spreading the message more than by becoming president

Agreed. But, much of that message is not getting across to people, the way it is being delivered. For example, people think he is weak on national defense. I have heard that concern, over and over again. He needs to paint a picture for people, of how his approach would provide much more national defense.

I don't want him to change his stances, one iota. I just wish he would re-frame his selling points so that people would understand what a Paul administration would be like and why they would be much better off. Sometimes, I don't think he even knows that people don't understand that they would be safer under his foreign policy, or that yes, he is a free trader, but he doesn't like NAFTA/CAFTA for that same reason and why that is. Or when he starts talking about getting rid of whole departments, the why and how of it. He throws out these things like abolishing the CIA/FBI and it scares the crap out of people. It wouldn't, if he explained why.

So, bottom line, yes, he is talking about the same things he has for years and years, but a whole lot of people still don't understand what he's talking about, much less his rationale. If for no other reason, if he doesn't tighten up his message, the people that he so badly wants to hear what he has to say, will still not have a clue what he is talking about, even after this campaign is over.
 
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It is not about Ron Paul; it is about the message of freedom and liberty. That's why I support Dr. Paul. He didn't find me; I found him. I hate politics because it is primarily about being a hypocrite (actor) -- how you are perceived is more important than who/what you are. I don't want RP to play the usual politician games. I know the reality is like what I heard someone say on NPR yesterday morning: "If given the choice between doing a good job or being perceived to do a good job, I'd take the perception." Sad. But, I don't believe in compromising my principles and convictions for limited gain. The ends don't justify the means, at least not for me.

There are a lot of obstacles limiting how the message is transmitted and received. Dr. Paul shouldn't be the only one preaching the message of liberty. We all should. Liberty doesn't start or end with RP. The message of liberty isn't dependent upon RP and/or how he relays it. If this is a real revolution, it won't stop until we're all dead or until we succeed, whenever that may be.

If you don't like how RP relays the message of liberty, then make sure you do better. It's not about RP; it's about the message, and we all can and should be sharing and spreading it.

dp
 
Ron Paul just needs to be himself.

he has been himself. the problem is that, for the most part, and especially in recent debates, he has been his worst self as opposed to his best self. rather than opening a serious discussion on foreign policy, for example, he reduced himself to a few snippets (they are here because we are there etc) and dismissed all concerns as war-mongering and propaganda. he showed up at meet the press completely clueless about the amount of money that would be saved by closing the bases - and that is the basis of his platform.

this has been pointed out repeatedly, but it was not corrected. dr paul apparently started believing the myth of cell phones and old voters and rockwell's estimates of finishing first in iowa.
 
Agree. Also:

HE MUST AVOID BRINGING UP ABOLISHING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION

People are dumb Dr. Paul. Please stop bringing this up, it helps no-one.

i disagree with this. this is a big negative for democrats, but - despite this often being forgotten on this board or even by dr paul himself - dr paul is running for republican nomination. abolishing department of education is not a big problem for many of them.

even ann coulter said that "ron paul is magnificent domestically" and most of the conservative pundits expressed agreement with him on domestic issues. their big issue is war on terror and their concerns had to be addressed in depth as opposed to being dismissed and ridiculed.
 
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