The libertarian answer to the vaccination debate...

[PaulConventionWV]

Inb4 "There is no debate!"

 

[angelatc]

Has the statist madness so infected our brains that freedom is a ghost, and common sense has left the building?

If vaccines ACTUALLY WORKED, why would you care if someone else doesn't get it? You and your family are protected, and the people who choose not to be vaccinated would die off, or learn. That's if the vaccines ACTUALLY WORKED. Let's force people to take something that obviously doesn't work, because we are scared we will get a disease that we are vaccinated against? WHAT? Does it work or doesn't it?

Or are you doing this because you "care" about the soon to be infected? They are dumb and can't think for themselves? So we need the government to think for them......."for their own good"? Heard that before.

It is just sad that these people who seem to pride themselves on being well informed free thinkers always seem to ask questions that have been answered hundreds of times already.

There is definitely a case to be made for the "They are dumb and can't think for themselves," position. Which is exactly how the government will eventually get mandatory vaccines passed through the Democrat congress.

 

[euphemia]

What is the evidence that they don't work? (vaccines are not 100% effective)

They don't last forever. Just for giggles, go outside and walk barefoot on a rusty tin can until you cut your foot. Go to the doctor. The first thing your doctor will say is, "Dude, you should wear shoes." The second thing your doctor will say is, "When was your last tetanus booster?"

 

[Intoxiklown]

Has the statist madness so infected our brains that freedom is a ghost, and common sense has left the building?

If vaccines ACTUALLY WORKED, why would you care if someone else doesn't get it? You and your family are protected, and the people who choose not to be vaccinated would die off, or learn. That's if the vaccines ACTUALLY WORKED. Let's force people to take something that obviously doesn't work, because we are scared we will get a disease that we are vaccinated against? WHAT? Does it work or doesn't it?

Or are you doing this because you "care" about the soon to be infected? They are dumb and can't think for themselves? So we need the government to think for them......."for their own good"? Heard that before.

Because those misinformed people are going to cause me to pay more for insurance and healthcare costs. All because some moron in Sedona, AZ told them a crystal rubbed with sage grass was all they needed to fight polio.

And they do work. Don't fall into the trap of Donnay's logic, in that if someone has a bad reaction here and there, or a batch is tainted at production, then obviously ALL of them will cause these reactions, and all are tainted. By that logic, you've literally just thrown every single procedure of medicine out the window as a conspiracy to kil us.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Really, angela? Then why are we debating? The people who claim "There is no debate!" are always trying to suppress the debate.

 

[euphemia]

One of the foundational truths of libertarianism is that a freedom lover is allowed to weigh the risks of their actions and assume responsibility for what he does.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

It is just sad that these people who seem to pride themselves on being well informed free thinkers always seem to ask questions that have been answered hundreds of times already.

There is definitely a case to be made for the "They are dumb and can't think for themselves," position. Which is exactly how the government will eventually get mandatory vaccines passed through the Democrat congress.

That's laughable. It's sad that people ask questions and verify things for themselves independently, regardless of how many times they've been told? That's pretty much the definition of free thinking. You don't become a free thinker by accepting things unquestioningly.

 

[nayjevin]

Now, I know it's a hotly debated topic, but for the purposes of this discussion let's assume vaccines are indeed effective and they do not pose health risks/complications to the individual who takes them.

If vaccines are indeed effective, then what is the justification one can make to NOT have the government force it upon its citizens? Now for me, just by principle I do not want the government forcing anything into my body, no matter how good it may be for me.

That's it. Government is not effective at it even if they had the authority.

However, this principled viewpoint is not good enough for many people who will simply argue that the benefits far outweigh the risks associated with not vaccinating the people (again, hypothetically assuming vaccines are indeed effective).

At this point, the person you are trying to convince has moved away from accepting the truth, and introduced poor thinking. My strategy in situations like this would of course vary, but probably equal parts retrying the truth in different words and showing the problems with whatever new objections arise.

The one you noted, benefits outweigh the risks.

1. Recognize who has a dog in the race. Vaccine sales. Benefits for whom?
2. Morality. There are some things that are not moral to do, even when the benefits outweigh the risks. To a liberal, perhaps corporate greed is one of those cases.
3. Benefit and risk to whom? Who determines the cost/benefit? Who can be best trusted to do so? Is it possible to do so (must we know the future)? If they believe government can be trusted to do so, you know exactly where the achilles is on that one. Various examples of government corruption will be effective to different groups.
4. What does the person you are trying to convince think the risks are? They will believe innocent people will be harmed, monetarily (health care cost) or directly (catching something). Both can be refuted.

So what is the libertarian, free market answer? When speaking of climate change, one can take the stance that climate change is indeed real AND man-made, but we find the free-market answer to such problems in private property rights -- an argument that, in my opinion, destroys the notion that government needs to impose coercion, taxes, and regulations to save the environment.

Private property rights will be gone if the planet is dead! Heheh

But what is the free-market answer to vaccinations? Assuming vaccines truly are effective, what is the alternative to having government force its people into being vaccinated?

Education. Voluntary people who fear the dangers will arise to meet the need. Did Angelina Jolie lobby congress to force women to adopt african babies? HELL NO! We can Unite and Do it Ourselves!

Maybe the answer is more obvious than I think, but I do need a push in the right direction from my fellow liberty lovers

You are seeking and accepting knowledge? I love this place.

 

[Carson]

"The libertarian answer to the vaccination debate..."

I'm don't know about the libertarian thing. What concerns me is the change from debate turning to demand.

People need to have a say in the experiments that are conducted on them. Maybe you go along with it ninety percent of the time. Then a time arises where your guts say "NO".

You should have that right.

Besides it may someday offer a clue as to why some people that allowed numerous concurrent experiments to be performed on them are having trouble while others are not.

Multiple experiments running on the same subject aren't necessarily good science and can corrupt your data. And man! I've lost track. To many to sort it all out I suspect.

 

[nayjevin]

People need to have a say in the experiments that are conducted on them. Maybe you go along with it ninety percent of the time. Then a time arises where your guts say "NO".

You should have that right.

Simple and I would bet very effective.

 

[nayjevin]

People need to have a say in the experiments that are conducted on them. Maybe you go along with it ninety percent of the time. Then a time arises where your guts say "NO".

You should have that right.

Bump because this is so good I hope everyone starts saying this.

 

[angelatc]

One of the foundational truths of libertarianism is that a freedom lover is allowed to weigh the risks of their actions and assume responsibility for what he does.

Sure, but that also means we assume some responsibility to try to ensure that those around us make informed decisions too, especially when their decisions can and do affect us directly.

 

[eduardo89]

The libertarian answer to the vaccination debate is don't be an idiot, get vaccinated.

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

The libertarian answer to the vaccination debate is don't be an idiot, get vaccinated.

But the government is going to use the vaccines to plant microchips in us!!!

 

[Zeeder]

Because those misinformed people are going to cause me to pay more for insurance and healthcare costs. All because some moron in Sedona, AZ told them a crystal rubbed with sage grass was all they needed to fight polio.

And they do work. Don't fall into the trap of Donnay's logic, in that if someone has a bad reaction here and there, or a batch is tainted at production, then obviously ALL of them will cause these reactions, and all are tainted. By that logic, you've literally just thrown every single procedure of medicine out the window as a conspiracy to kil us.

No I didn't. Every single medical procedure should be voluntary.

And Your health insurance wouldn't go up in a free society because there wouldn't be any. And if there were, the people rubbing crystal balls would pay more, not you. And you'd be surprised how much believing in something strongly enough, affected your health. Crystal balls included.

 

[osan]

Has the statist madness so infected our brains that freedom is a ghost, and common sense has left the building?

In a word, yes.

 

[osan]

Sure, but that also means we assume some responsibility to try to ensure that those around us make informed decisions too, especially when their decisions can and do affect us directly.

Buh-WHA? I think you maybe confusing responsibility with enlightened self-interest. I hold no such responsibility, just as I have no responsibility to canvas neighborhoods to ensure the people have heard the "Good News".

That said, while I am most definitely not my brother's keeper, there may be times where it behooves me to act as if I were. But the choice should always be mine to make and not someone else's to impose upon me.