The libertarian answer to the vaccination debate...

[nodeal]

I've been reading a lot regarding the science of vaccines, and I would really appreciate it if you guys can help me develop the libertarian answer to vaccinations.

Now, I know it's a hotly debated topic, but for the purposes of this discussion let's assume vaccines are indeed effective and they do not pose health risks/complications to the individual who takes them.

If vaccines are indeed effective, then what is the justification one can make to NOT have the government force it upon its citizens? Now for me, just by principle I do not want the government forcing anything into my body, no matter how good it may be for me. However, this principled viewpoint is not good enough for many people who will simply argue that the benefits far outweigh the risks associated with not vaccinating the people (again, hypothetically assuming vaccines are indeed effective).

So what is the libertarian, free market answer? When speaking of climate change, one can take the stance that climate change is indeed real AND man-made, but we find the free-market answer to such problems in private property rights -- an argument that, in my opinion, destroys the notion that government needs to impose coercion, taxes, and regulations to save the environment.

But what is the free-market answer to vaccinations? Assuming vaccines truly are effective, what is the alternative to having government force its people into being vaccinated?

Maybe the answer is more obvious than I think, but I do need a push in the right direction from my fellow liberty lovers

 

[dannno]

The libertarian solution is the free market solution.

Open a good school and require vaccinations.

Open a travel service of some sort that goes to foreign countries and require vaccinations.

Open a big hotel/resort like Disneyland or something and require vaccinations.

 

[MelissaWV]

Personally? I would like the vaccination schedules and the composition of those schedules to be decided by the physician overseeing the patient's care. It's a medical decision. Some doctors are going to take the accelerated approach and continue jabbing numerous vaccinations into children with their parents' consent. Others are going to spread out those vaccinations, and skip some altogether. I seriously have never understood why a healthy child would need a chicken pox vaccine, for instance.

Likewise, without the Government schools demanding vaccinations or else (and this "or else" is generally backed by incredible levels of force, up to taking your kids away or charging you with criminal acts for not taking proper care of your young ones), you would have private and community schools that could set those kinds of standards for activities. It would become a matter of allowing the physicians to be the loudest voice when it comes to medication of any kind (with the parents having the final say in whether or not they listen to that physician), and the schools to balance the safeguarding of their population with scaremongering and losing out in what would ideally be a competitive education market.

Once you yank the Government out of things, and take the gun away from parents' heads, it'd be easier to make an informed decision. It'd be the parents' responsibility to do so. That's the same reason why it's very unlikely to happen that way, though.

 

[angelatc]

If vaccines are indeed effective, then what is the justification one can make to NOT have the government force it upon its citizens?

I do not think a free person should have the government force anything upon him or her.

 

[IBleedNavyAndOrange]

If vaccines are indeed effective, then what is the justification one can make to NOT have the government force it upon its citizens?

But what is the free-market answer to vaccinations? Assuming vaccines truly are effective, what is the alternative to having government force its people into being vaccinated?

To ask the question is to answer it.

Why would you need force?

Don't you have reason? Can't you offer evidence?

 

[nodeal]

To ask the question is to answer it.

Why would you need force?

Don't you have reason? Can't you offer evidence?

I guess the argument would be that there will always be people "crazy" enough to not believe in vaccines, and therefore will not vaccinate themselves or their kids. Therefore, they pose health risks to themselves, kids, and society. Remember, I'm trying to envision a hypothetical where the evidence overwhelmingly says vaccines are effective and safe.

 

[MelissaWV]

I guess the argument would be that there will always be people "crazy" enough to not believe in vaccines, and therefore will not vaccinate themselves or their kids. Therefore, they pose health risks to themselves, kids, and society. Remember, I'm trying to envision a hypothetical where the evidence overwhelmingly says vaccines are effective and safe.

But making them mandatory does nothing to convince those people, really. There are people right now who go out of their way to avoid vaccinations altogether, and that's with them being "mandatory" to a large degree. The problem with making something like that mandatory, even if we take for granted that it's for the good of everyone involved, is that you strip all of the choice away from the people most qualified to make the decisions and put the decision in the hands of the people least qualified to do so, and let them enforce that same decision with guns and jail time and ripping apart families.

 

[nodeal]

But making them mandatory does nothing to convince those people, really. There are people right now who go out of their way to avoid vaccinations altogether, and that's with them being "mandatory" to a large degree. The problem with making something like that mandatory, even if we take for granted that it's for the good of everyone involved, is that you strip all of the choice away from the people most qualified to make the decisions and put the decision in the hands of the people least qualified to do so, and let them enforce that same decision with guns and jail time and ripping apart families.

Thanks for your perspective You have certainly shed light on the topic

 

[Weston White]

It is the practice of unqualified medicine under the guise of setting public policy; thereby, permitting lawmakers to function as medical pseudo-practitioners.

It is abhorrent to each individual’s inherent right to become individualistic.

Humankind has flourished and evolved for thousands of years perfectly fine without the necessity of mandated vaccinations.

There is a realized distinction between proactive vaccinations and vaccinations as a course of treatment in diagnoses’. The former is by and large placebo in nature, while the latter intends to provide an actual cure.

Regardless, as to the effectiveness and safeness of mass-produced vaccinations there are in many instances effective homeopathic alternatives available—e.g., homeoprophylaxis (HP).

 

[Anti Federalist]

Therefore, they pose health risks to themselves, kids, and society.

Once you go down that road, you end up here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...nation-is-broad-enough-to-cover-sterilization

As others have already noted, no force, no coercion, medical decisions made in best interest of the patient.

 

[Nirvikalpa]

Ideally, it would be the physician's responsibility to relay all medical information regarding vaccines to parents & patients. However, this would require intense research of the vaccines, and not just what is spoon-fed to medical students as they complete their training. It would also require doctors to spend more time with their patients, which means abandoning all government red tape in nearly every medical application - from education and training, to practice, insurance, liabilities etc etc.

The crazy thing is that doctors are actually doing it. Doctors are beginning to abandon the idea of residency, and are beginning to fight back against the government - and even those who aren't fighting yet are on the brink of it, because they're getting too fed up.

 

[mrsat_98]

http://www.gematrix.org/?word=vaccination

 

[56ktarget]

Simple, if you want to ban mandatory vaccination, make it a crime to infect other people with a disease.

 

[angelatc]

Simple, if you want to ban mandatory vaccination, make it a crime to infect other people with a disease.

Sure. Just strip away a little more of our humanity.

I don't agree with it, but the precedent is already there. You can already be sued for spreading sexually transmitted diseases. I'm guessing that gives you some pleasure though?

 

[Zeeder]

Has the statist madness so infected our brains that freedom is a ghost, and common sense has left the building?

If vaccines ACTUALLY WORKED, why would you care if someone else doesn't get it? You and your family are protected, and the people who choose not to be vaccinated would die off, or learn. That's if the vaccines ACTUALLY WORKED. Let's force people to take something that obviously doesn't work, because we are scared we will get a disease that we are vaccinated against? WHAT? Does it work or doesn't it?

Or are you doing this because you "care" about the soon to be infected? They are dumb and can't think for themselves? So we need the government to think for them......."for their own good"? Heard that before.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Do they work? India instituted a major campaign to vaccinate against measles and polio. Within three years they went from having the most cases in the world to being among the fewest cases.

What is the evidence that they don't work? (vaccines are not 100% effective)

 

[PierzStyx]

I do not think a free person should have the government force anything upon him or her.

Exactly. Give the government the power to mandate you do anything and it will force you to obey it at all time. That power will be used against you one day. When you can be forced to do anything you are not a free person, you're a servant at best and a slave at worst.

 

[PierzStyx]

Do they work? India instituted a major campaign to vaccinate against measles and polio. Within three years they went from having the most cases in the world to being among the fewest cases.

What is the evidence that they don't work? (vaccines are not 100% effective)

Then why mandate it? All intelligent people will voluntarily get vaccinated.

 

[Zeeder]

Then why mandate it? All intelligent people will voluntarily get vaccinated.

Exactly, this Zippy character spends the majority of his life on a Ron Paul board, and doesn't understand liberty at all. His post completely missed the point (on purpose I suspect.) Almost like he is paid to come here and post.

Vaccines, like anything else, some work. some are a complete waste of time. People will voluntarily get them if it's in their best interest. I stay as far away from the flu vaccines as I can for instance. Haven't had the flu since I started eating right and taking vit d/c in the winter.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I have never said vaccines should be mandatory.

Ron Paul himself has called the polio vaccine "a blessing" because he grew up when polio was more common- he personally knew kids who died or ended up paralyized from it. Today, thanks to the success of vaccines, many diseases are now so rare some people don't feel they need protection from them anymore. As they get fewer vaccines, the diseases start to become more common again.