The Gold Standard

This may have been repeatedly done over and over.

Trust that I'm not a troll. And would like to see Dr Paul become the next president.

But how in the fuck would going back to the gold standard in a globalized economy be a good thing?

this global economy stuff is just nonsense.

It's always been a global economy.

I can't answer your questions in the time allocated. You need to do some thinking for yourself.

Ask yourself why unskilled American's need to be paid 10 times more then unskilled Mexican workers.

And ask yourself, what protection does an individual have against rampant inflation? Should inflation offsets be a taxable event?
 
1) It removes the power of government to print currency to increase their own power.

--That makes perfect sense to me, but I don't think that it will outweigh the negatives (that i can't even begin to comprehend with my limited knowledge of economics) that may come from it

2) Money doesn't mean anything if it's not backed by something you can exchange it for. By making money equivalent to some amount of gold, it's worth something solid, whose value is more difficult to distort.

This to me doesnt sound like reason. You can exchange our currency for goods and services. The only thing it's not working with so well (that I see) is purchasing oil. Maybe there's more can you expand on this for me a little?

Personally, I don't think the gold standard is the end value. A national currency is opposed to a free society. By allowing currency competition, you would instantly kill the government's control over the dollar and end the inequality of those with solid assets (investments, which aren't hurt too bad by inflation) over those with dollar assets.

Currency competition, not gold standard has my vote.

So this currency competition you speak of, you want to be able to go to the wal mart and pay for your purchase with gold nuggets?

You can buy and sell gold with our current currency, right?

I just don't understand well enough. I'm gonna head over to wikipedia and check out this competition stuff you're talking about..
 
First of all, it is obvious you are not approaching this with an open mind. I would propose to you the opposite question, "Why the hell would going to the gold standard in a global economy NOT be a good thing?"

The answer you seek cant be found entirely in a sentence or paragraph, you must stude economic and monetary theory. Here is one reason though.

Paper money can be artificially created. The people with the power and authority to artificially create money have an inordinate amount of control over the people that use that currency. When they create money, the money you already have becomes less valuable. They are stealing from you.

Gold can not be artificially created or manipulated.

You're so very wrong that I'm not approaching this with an open mind, the guy I was talking to telling to go away was not contributing he was just quoting someone who tried to get me to repeat a mantra -- over 3 times. He obviously had nothing to contribute and even tried to tell me the thread was over.

And I understand your point that paper money can be artificially created and whoever creates it can artificially create more, and spend more of it to support their own ends. that makes 100% sense to me.

Gold can't be created right now. Sure. I'll buy that too. But is there enough of it to go around? The rest of the world has already changed to supply and demand of goods and services right? So if we just up and pull out of it then it seems to reason that it is us who will be fucked over.
 
So this currency competition you speak of, you want to be able to go to the wal mart and pay for your purchase with gold nuggets?
NO!
The money would be backed by gold. It would still be paper & coins in your pocket.

I just don't understand well enough. I'm gonna head over to wikipedia and check out this competition stuff you're talking about..

Watch this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q-M8En38oFQ
It should help clear it up for you.



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Okay now I see that Ron doesnt want to exactly go back to the standard.

quoted from wikipedia
Paul has also called for the removal of all taxes on gold transactions.[84] He has repeatedly introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act since 1999,[85] to enable "America to return to the type of monetary system envisioned by our Nation's founders: one where the value of money is consistent because it is tied to a commodity such as gold"; it has received virtually no mainstream news coverage.[86] He opposes dependency on paper fiat money, but also says that there "were some shortcomings of the gold standard of the 19th century ... because it was a fixed price and caused confusion." He argues that hard money, such as backed by gold or silver, would prevent inflation, but adds, "I wouldn't exactly go back on the gold standard but I would legalize the constitution where gold and silver should and could be legal tender, which would restrain the Federal Government from spending and then turning that over to the Federal Reserve and letting the Federal Reserve print the money."[87]


So I think I'm begining to get it. And now the competing currency argument is making more sense. The value of our dollar should have to compete with the value of gold?

Is that right?
 
this global economy stuff is just nonsense.

It's always been a global economy.

I can't answer your questions in the time allocated. You need to do some thinking for yourself.

Then go away. I'm not here to troll, honestly the purpose me posting this thread was to help me understand.
I envisioned it to work something like this.

I ask a question (probably a stupid one)
someone answers my question
if I didnt understand their reponse or thought that their answer was wrong or lacking I would submit a rebuttal.
I'll be the first to admit I'm pretty fucking ignorant on this subject.

If you can't participate then please don't -- just move along. Someone else who can will participate.

Ask yourself why unskilled American's need to be paid 10 times more then unskilled Mexican workers.
From where I'm standing, they don't need to be paid 10 times more, if you're unskilled then you need to get some skills.

And ask yourself, what protection does an individual have against rampant inflation? Should inflation offsets be a taxable event?

I will ponder this one for a while. Thanks.
 
The money out of thin air is a hard concept to grasp. When people say that, I do not think everyone understands that it means just what it says.

The Fed loans money that it created out of thin air to banks who in turn loan it to corps and peeps who spend it hand over fist on stuff they would likely have never thought of doing with their own hard earned savings. This is the mal-investment Dr. Paul so often references that is caused by the fed. This crap encourages risk taking and people are happy to take risks to try and get filthy rich using cheap loans and being protected by bankruptcy laws that allow them to discharge the debt without ever a care in the world except how to get there hands on the next loan.

Dropping the interest rates creates demand for credit which can ONLY be filled by creating more money out of thin air, that money is used to fund lots of unproductive things and goes a long way to explaining the four or five Rite-Aids and two empty strip malls you see on every street corner in your home town.

PS, this is a complex subject and I am no expert but I thought I would throw in the basic stuff I think I understand.
 
One more thing to add, when business men make the wrong decisions about where to invest in generates unproductive activity.

This stuff adds to the economy and shows up in the numbers the government tells you about but its kind of like me borrowing money to dig a hole in my yard because I think there might be oil. Its a long shot but I dont care its not my money.

This kind of inefficiency at the national level hurts us, and indirectly contributes to those GIANT trade deficits, you cannot trade an empty strip mall no more than the far fetched hole in my yard I describe....not to mention our national debt which everyone understands drains our spending power because we have to pay the interest on it.

Ok there is my 2c, anyone pipe up and correct me if I spoke out of line.
 
A competing currency could work. If I had a choice to keep your savings/401k funds in a gold backed, or some kind of legit currency, I would. If it was legal tender it would be liquid but should be a safe hedge against inflation. We should have a choice.
 
I'll give you a couple of reading assignments to help you understand the problem.
"A HISTORY OF MONEY AND BANKING
IN THE UNITED STATES:
THE COLONIAL ERA TO WORLDWAR II" by Murray Rothbard

And then start reading on Austrian Economics.
You can download the book in .pdf format from mises.org-google it you'll find it.

You will learn stuff that will be fascinating. A couple of points, the U.S. had competing foreign currencies for many, many years, up until 1900s or so. I like a gold standard, but I wouldn't go back to the way it was done in the early history. I personally would like to see things priced in ounces rather than dollars (which is an arbitrary value anyways). Have coins minted that are 1 oz. 1/10th oz, etc. Have two standards, a gold standard and a silver standard, every object has two values, one in gold and one in silver. But that's just me.
 
This may have been repeatedly done over and over.

Trust that I'm not a troll. And would like to see Dr Paul become the next president.

But how in the fuck would going back to the gold standard in a globalized economy be a good thing?

devslashnull,

That's a good question. I know it's heresy to say this on this forum, but the simple answer to your question is it would not be a good thing to go back to the gold standard.

The idea that a gold standard will always prevent inflation is simply not true. It might prevent inflation, it might not. You have to understand what inflation is to understand why this is true. In simple terms, inflation is what happens when the money supply increases more quickly than the goods and services available for sale in the economy. When more dollars chase the same amount of goods and services, prices will rise. So the question you have to ask is, who is to say that the money supply would be limited simply because we're using gold? If more gold is discovered, the amount of gold increases and there will be inflation unless the output of goods and services increases to match the new gold supply. It's wrong to think that the main purpose of gold is "backing up" paper currency. As many people have already said, the main purpose of a gold standard is to limit the amount of currency that can be put in circulation at any given time. This keeps government honest.

The gold standard created some serious problems in the late 19th century when the economic output of the U.S. was increasing rapidly but the money supply couldn't keep up. There was a period of deflation and prices actually went down significantly. This might seem great to a lot of people today, but it was devastating to the economy. Businesses that had taken out loans earlier still had to pay those loans off at the same dollar amounts, but deflation meant that they were paying them off with dollars that were worth more in real purchasing power than when the loans were taken out. This essentially raised the price of the loans, so their expenses increased. At the same time, the price of the goods and services provided by businesses had declined so their net revenue could no longer cover their expenses. Companies cut their work force or went out of business, and those workers who lost their jobs still had to pay their mortgage, but they couldn't. In short, debtors defaulted on loans and mortgages, banks went under because of this, all very nasty nasty stuff. Deflation can be a very bad thing!

In theory, the Fed can regulate the money supply so it increases or decreases as needed, to keep inflation or deflation to a minimum. Of course, as we all know, in practice the Fed uses their power to increase the money supply more than it should, causing steady inflation. They claim they're keeping "inflation under control" when they're really the ones causing it, and it's all very calculated because it's much easier politically for government to "print" the money rather than raise taxes. The overall value of the dollar goes down when they do this, but since they now have more dollars even though they're worth a little less, they have transferred wealth from the citizens to the government. This is because even though every dollar in circulation has declined in real purchasing power, the government now has more dollars but the citizens don't. So the government has more purchasing power and the citizens have less purchasing power. This is the "inflation tax" that Ron Paul talks about.

The other problem with the Fed is that they don't have a crystal ball, and they don't always know the best way to increase or decrease the money supply. A prime example is that during the Great Depression, in 1931, the Fed actually raised interest rates! Most people know that the way to mitigate the effects of a recession, at least in the relatively short term, is to reduce interest rates (just like the Fed is doing now). The danger is, of course, inflation. But the main point is that the people in charge of the Fed are not infallible; sometimes they were inept like during the Depression. Now they're simply corrupt. Either way, they don't always do the right thing.

I personally believe that the powers held by the Fed are very important, so long as they are used responsibly to keep inflation and deflation in check. But the problem is that they are not currently being responsible, because they don't have to be! They have simply outlawed all other currencies, so they have no competition. They're the only game in town, so they can do whatever they want. Since only a relatively small segment of the population knows what the Fed actually does, there isn't any noticeable political backlash. The only check on their power is the market -- if the Fed were acting grossly irresponsibly, the market would freak and economic chaos would ensue -- but since so many big businesses are in bed with the government, they actually benefit from some of the Fed's inflationary policies (think about all of the defense firms that lobby for us to get involved in military conflicts, which almost always require inflationary "printing" and spending). This is fascism - government in bed with big business. But back to the main issue...

The way to encourage the Fed to be more responsible is to allow competing currencies. Then people could easily transfer their wealth from dollars to a competing currency if they believed the Fed policies were working against them. You can argue that foreign currencies are a form of competing currency, and in theory I suppose that's correct, but you don't see many businesses in the U.S. that accept Euros. The Liberty Dollar was a competing domestic currency, but the Liberty Dollar operation was recently shut down by the government (http://www.libertydollar.org/).

To summarize, the gold standard is simply a way of placing a limit on the power of government to tax the population through the hidden "inflation tax." It prevents government officials from printing up money whenever they want to fund a new, sexy government program so they can get re-elected ("Look Ma, a great new program without a tax raise!"). In the end, neither the gold standard nor competing currencies will fix everything, but at least competing currencies can encourage the Fed to be a little more honest with their monetary policy. In my opinion, it would be a terrible mistake to rely exclusively on either the gold standard or the Federal reserve system; both have proven to be unreliable in terms of controlling inflation and deflation. The best answer is a mixture of competing currencies ("backed" by gold and silver, or some other commodity) and the Fed system, but definitely with more transparency, maybe even put it directly in the hands of elected officials. Of course, since Ron Paul is totally awesome and fantastic, he recognizes this. Hence, he advocates for the legalization of competing currencies.
 
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