The Forward Party: Our Next Third-party Failure?

[PAF]

A third political party? We already have two do we really need another

Ron Paul [and I] believe there’s only one.

 

[TheTexan]

I never pegged you as the kind of person who would ever say there can be too many parties.

Quality over quantity

 

[acptulsa]

Quality over quantity

Admittedly the women always get screwed. The problem is, so do the men.

 

[WisconsinLiberty]

Ron Paul [and I] believe there’s only one.

Ron Paul was elected as a Republican, however.

"Run in the party you think you can WIN because political parties are irrelevant."

 

[oyarde]

I think this must be an attempt by the establishment to keep House seats in current hands. I dont see it having an effect on anything higher up. For the first time in a good while there is a chance to roll some over.

 

[Occam's Banana]

I can't help but get the feeling that Andrew Yang is an uber-naïve, useful idiot, and the usual suspects are more than happy to harness his ignorance.

I get the same impression, based on my direct awareness and first-hand observations of him - which I admit are quite limited, as I have never paid much attention to Yang.

But some others who have paid more attention to Yang than I have are skeptical of him. Michael Malice, for example, makes no secret of the fact that he thinks Yang is an ambitious and conniving snake who knows exactly what he is doing.

 

[Occam's Banana]

A third party is never going to win a general election. They will always split the vote for either the Democrats or Republicans Whigs.

Fixed.

 

[Occam's Banana]

 

[nobody's_hero]

This sounds like the Lincoln Project in a way. Establishmentarians trying to divert voters back to 'pretty' candidates with no real substance.

 

[Okie RP fan]

The Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power in the elections. They are not a threat to anyone. Trump, however, is a threat.

I find it interesting that the Renew America Movement has Lisa Murkowski and Liz Cheney in their ranks. Yikes.

The Forward Party will be a who's who of RINO Republicans.

In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.

 

[acptulsa]

In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.

So then, what?

Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.

 

[WisconsinLiberty]

So then, what?

Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.

The Ron Paul method is the best method.

 

[Occam's Banana]

The Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power in the elections. They are not a threat to anyone. [...]

In bold right there is the hard truth a lot of us need to learn to swallow.
If the LP 10Xs their enrollment over the next 2-4 years, guess what? They're still many measures below Independent party numbers. I wish people would see this and understand it.

Why?

If the MC/LP is so ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant that even increasing it by a factor of 10 (i.e., by an entire order of magnitude) would still leave it as ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant as before, then what can it possibly matter whether those who support it ever "learn to swallow" or "see [...] and understand" the "hard truth" that "the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone"?

Either the number of such people is "many measures below independent party numbers", or it is not. If it is not, then the proposition that they have "virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone" is false. But if it is, then there is no reason for you to care, one way or the other, about whether they "swallow" that "hard truth" or not.

IOW: If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).

 

[acptulsa]

If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).

As we learn every time we try to get Republicans to nominate a conservative in a primary.

 

[Okie RP fan]

So then, what?

Vote for Trump again, and hope that they count your vote this time? And if they do, hope Trump doesn't print trillions and give it all to Big Pharma to develop poison again?

I don't think that's going to get us anywhere we want to be. Admittedly, it's a proven method--to get screwed.

We aren't going to get out of this mess by being afraid to go out on a limb.

No, I don't think voting Trump is the whole answer, either.

Politics is power. The LP has none. Why divest time, money, and resources to the LP at this point in time? I'm tired of seeing that attempted as it's a complete waste of time. The Mises Caucus people (God bless them, I do wish them the best) are turning the LP into their fan club now. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. It beats what was going on. But even with the MC in charge... THE LP HAS NO POWER. The LP can't do jack squat with politics. They'd be better off trying to influence Republicans like Ron Paul wanted us to do but we failed to follow up on it in a meaningful way. There was one solid attempt with the TEA Parties (and those were co-opted) and after that, everyone took their ball and went home. Meanwhile, neocons and globalists got in nice and cozy with both the GOP and Dems.

It seems like these exact conversations pop up weekly or monthly on this forum and within liberty/libertarian circles. It's so dang old and I'm even typing all of this out with a look of disgust on my face (not directed at you, by the way) because I know most of our methods and plans are futile in this system. But, I do think tides can be turned or delayed with enough political force at certain levels. We've seen it happen.

I think I'm just going to try and influence locally as much as possible and vote for the most liberty-oriented candidates on the ballots at local and state levels. Federal level elections are pretty much lost for our types. There's been some success with Amash, Massie, and Rand, but we haven't had much else since them.

 

[Okie RP fan]

Why?

If the MC/LP is so ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant that even increasing it by a factor of 10 (i.e., by an entire order of magnitude) would still leave it as ineffectual, inconsequential, and irrelevant as before, then what can it possibly matter whether those who support it ever "learn to swallow" or "see [...] and understand" the "hard truth" that "the Mises Caucus and the Libertarian Party has virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone"?

Either the number of such people is "many measures below independent party numbers", or it is not. If it is not, then the proposition that they have "virtually no power [and] are not a threat to anyone" is false. But if it is, then there is no reason for you to care, one way or the other, about whether they "swallow" that "hard truth" or not.

IOW: If there is enough of them to matter, then your "hard truth" is nothing of the kind. But if there is not enough of them to matter, then they don't matter - and there is no point in "wishing [they] would see this and understand it" (since it wouldn't make any difference if they did - because there are not enough of them to matter).

Because I hate seeing people who are just like me spin their tires into something that won't get them anywhere (that irony isn't lost on me with this GOP strategy either... I get it). That's all. If I can get 5 libertarians to reconsider spending their time and effort into the LP/MC and instead into the GOP (which dominates where I live, so there's much more strategic value there), then I'll call that a success.

But, in truth, the LP and MC will turn into another fan club, issue fancy press releases that get all 10,000 people excited, and the GOP and Dems will still have the floor.

Edit: I know it's not going to be any use debating with you so please keep doing your thing and I'll do mine. The LP is not the answer. The LP will never be popular. Liberty is not popular. Politics is power and libertarians (as a whole) don't want to lord over others. Do you see that contradiction?

 

[acptulsa]

The LP will never be popular. Liberty is not popular. Politics is power and libertarians (as a whole) don't want to lord over others. Do you see that contradiction?

Yes, yes. The contradiction is obvious. That didn't keep Coolidge out of the White House.

If we can finally make people see what it takes to clear out the corruption, then we will need to have an organization in place that will help us get candidates on the ballot for federal office. If it happens at all, it'll happen quickly.

In hopes of that, we can either popularize the LP or clean out the GOP. Both are tall orders. Whether one will serve us better depends on a number of things, such as whether something happens to put the one name on everyone's lips, or whether the other finally pisses people off.

But neither party is going to serve our needs immediately or easily. One doesn't have the floor space. One does, but it's full of asbestos.

After decades of team player, don't throw your vote away, safety in numbers rhetoric, we wind up with a lot of screaming about we need help here, we need numbers there. I'm not sure any of it is coming from the people actually burrowed into these parties and doing the work. And I'm not sure that help will help all that much yet. I don't see such a disadvantage to working on both projects on a Plan A/Plan B basis that we need to spend all day screaming at each other over it.

And to tell you the truth, watching the shills be shrill leads me to believe the Establishment considers us in the GOP taking long rides on the short bus less of a threat than the LP. The GOP is chock full of people with high hopes of someday getting a piece of the corruption. They provide a lot of resistance. At least we know we can clean the LP out from top to bottom.

Every consideration beyond that is just as irrelevant as which football team you're a fan of.

If insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, both plans are insane. Been there, done both. But as the powers that be crank up the suck, the variables are changing. There are a lot of variables, and I don't know how to tell which plan happenstance and fortune will favor. All I know is, when it comes to people, you are right that the GOP has the quantity and OB is right that the LP gas the quality.

 

[WisconsinLiberty]

The Forward Party: Our Next Third-party Failure?


The New American
August 8, 2022


George Washington was absolutely right about political parties when he wrote what is now known as his 1796 farewell address. He believed unity, not division, was necessary for our young republic to survive. Washington believed that political parties would divide and destroy the young United States.

He warned “the spirit of party … serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection.”

George Washington was confident that the country could and should function without the existence of political parties. But the political party system was well in place, even forming while he was in office. Since then, unless you’ve been locked up in a bunker somewhere, you have been exposed to exactly what Washington’s foresight predicted.

The United States has suffered through a number of political parties, some exceptional and others downright ludicrous. And now we have the genesis of a new political party known as Forward (FWD) to add to the list.

The Forward Party was formally announced in late July and is co-chaired by former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang and former Republican New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman.

This new political party was formed by a merger of three political groups that have shared common goals. The Forward Party, the Renew America Movement, and the Serve America Movement merged in an attempt to redefine American geopolitics and become a new force in uniting the American people.

The FWD website claims that “Democrats, Republicans, and Independents are joining forces to be a political home for the majority of Americans who want to move past the era of divisiveness and do-nothing politicians — so that our government starts working again. This party will look and feel different. Forward celebrates diverse viewpoints and creativity, works to truly improve communities, and focuses on uniting people around common-sense solutions.”


The Forward party platform focuses on three priorities:


* Free People: Revitalize a culture that celebrates difference and individual choice, rejects hate, and removes barriers so that each of us can rise to our full potential.

* Thriving Communities: Reinvigorate a fair, flourishing economy and open society where everyone can live a good life and is safe in the places where we learn, work, and live.

* Vibrant Democracy: Reform our republic to give Americans more choices in elections, more confidence in a government that works, and more say in our future.



Forward’s party paradigm will seek “rank choice voting,” non-partisan primaries, and independent redistricting committees. All of this is, of course, to cure the current state of affairs which both major parties would never want changed.

It’s true that third parties can be influential. The most successful third party since Lincoln and the birth of the Republican Party was the Reform Party, which in 1992 nominated Texas billionaire Ross Perot as its candidate for president. Perot ran on a platform that advocated reducing the federal budget deficit, an issue previously ignored in elections but one that would become a major part of almost every presidential campaign since. Perot received 19 percent of the vote, which came mostly from Republican voters, thus handing Democrat Bill Clinton the presidency.

Forward most likely will find itself in the political waste basket due to difficulty navigating the election process. Making the ballot, federal campaign finance laws, rules that dictate who can enter presidential debates, and a lack of media attention are just a few obstacles that they must successfully overcome. Oh, and then they need money. Plenty of cash on hand is usually what wins elections.

The truth is that most Americans just want their country back; a country based on the first principles of our founders and the U.S. Constitution. Americans are tired of the current oligarchy filled with narcissists, sycophants, carpetbaggers, and woke extremist nut jobs.

What we need is not a third party, but candidates, regardless of party affiliation, who will stand for the Constitution and serve with a strong moral compass in their decision making; candidates, once elected, who will reduce the size of government and bring back government to its basic role of simply defending people’s liberties.

The Forward Party will not be the cure to what ails this nation’s corrupt politicians. That will be the brave individual who seeks to serve like Washington did, remaining above the political party fray, representing the people.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

In the US you have two parties that generally internally do not fully agree and in many cases do not vote as one block.

In The Netherlands we always say the US has a stupid system because there are only two parties represented... Well, we have 20 by now. But inside these parties, there's no disagreement allowed (when it comes to voting on laws) or people are kicked out. Therefore, it's much more difficult to have a Ron Paul or Thomas Massie here.

In the end it doesn't matter what party people are from, that's just a name. Is what I think.

 

[WisconsinLiberty]

In the US you have two parties that generally internally do not fully agree and in many cases do not vote as one block.

In The Netherlands we always say the US has a stupid system because there are only two parties represented... Well, we have 20 by now. But inside these parties, there's no disagreement allowed (when it comes to voting on laws) or people are kicked out. Therefore, it's much more difficult to have a Ron Paul or Thomas Massie here.

In the end it doesn't matter what party people are from, that's just a name. Is what I think.

"Run in the party you think you can WIN because political parties are irrelevant."
- Ron Paul, Republican