The Decline And Fall of the Liberty Movement, Illustrated

[r3volution 3.0]

What has become apparent is that the Trumpers have joined a cult of personality, and that their former support of RP was a cult of personality. Those in the actual Liberty Movement, while they may have affection for RP, are followers of his ideology, not the man. As Americans, and Liberty-lovers, we SHOULD be critical of DJT. If Ron or Rand were elected POTUS, we STILL would be critical of their actions, if those actions were counter-Liberty. This is not being "purist", it's being consistent.

A very important point

Unfortunately, we can't build a liberty movement consisting only, or even predominantly, of people who understand and accept the ideology (as opposed to people who just happen to like our current standard bearer for some superficial reason); there just aren't enough people who think that way. The vast majority of the electorate reasons emotionally and always will, period. The trick is to somehow corral such people and get them to support our candidate (as in '08 and '12) without allowing them to lead us off course (as happened this cycle).

 

[otherone]

A very important point

Unfortunately, we can't build a liberty movement consisting only, or even predominantly, of people who understand and accept the ideology (as opposed to people who just happen to like our current standard bearer for some superficial reason); there just aren't enough people who think that way. The vast majority of the electorate reasons emotionally and always will, period. The trick is to somehow corral such people and get them to support our candidate (as in '08 and '12) without allowing them to lead us off course (as happened this cycle).

The candidates who are an actual threat are marginalized by the media. Solutions?

 

[euphemia]

I don't think there is any such thing as a purist. We disagree on open border and commerce, for starters.

Liberty is for all, and it is the life we life when we understand we don't need permission of government to put up a fence or use a substance on our own property. We don't need government's permission to form relationships, and we are the ones who decide when it becomes the government's buisness to appropriate our property or give custody to children. We can buy what we want (including insurance) from wherever we want, and we don't need the government to tell us how to do it.

 

[otherone]

I don't think there is any such thing as a purist. We disagree on open border and commerce, for starters.

Liberty is for all, and it is the live we live when we understand we don't need permission of government to put up a fence or use a substance on our own property. We don't need government's permission to form relationships, and we are the ones who decide when it becomes the government's buisness to appropriate our property or give custody to children. We can buy what we want (including insurance) from wherever we want, and we don't need the government to tell us how to do it.

wait...you're for open borders?

 

[CCTelander]

What has become apparent is that the Trumpers have joined a cult of personality, and that their former support of RP was a cult of personality. Those in the actual Liberty Movement, while they may have affection for RP, are followers of his ideology, not the man. As Americans, and Liberty-lovers, we SHOULD be critical of DJT. If Ron or Rand were elected POTUS, we STILL would be critical of their actions, if those actions were counter-Liberty. This is not being "purist", it's being consistent.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to otherone again."

This post can't be +repped enough.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

The candidates who are an actual threat are marginalized by the media. Solutions?

I wish I had some, but other than "somehow acquire fifty billion dollars" nothing much comes to mind. That said, it's not impossible to overcome the media bias. It's about who can pump out the best propaganda at the highest volume. Lack of money makes it impossible for us to win on volume, but we can potentially win on quality of propaganda (money matters here as well, e.g. hiring the best PR firms, but it's not as much of a limitation). A lot of this has to do with the candidates themselves. We need better quality candidates: not ideologically, but in terms of speaking ability, how impressive is their background, etc. We should be more involved in local and state races to build up a stable of future candidates.

Just a few scattered thoughts, I don't have any grand solution here...

 

[thoughtomator]

Real libertarians recognize liberty for all.

Collectivist!



You hit the nail on the head there. The key divide on this forum is between those who do believe in liberty for all, and those whose sole interest is liberty for themselves only.

 

[otherone]

Collectivist!



You hit the nail on the head there. The key divide on this forum is between those who do believe in liberty for all, and those whose sole interest is liberty for themselves only.

wait...now YOU'RE open borders?

 

[nikcers]

nah...what was sad was when i was sitting in my chair at the 2008 Republican Convention in Spokane Washington with the delegation from my county as a State Delegate, when Lou Moore, Ron's campaign manager got up on stage and announced he was going to support John McCain....thats when i knew this 'liberty' movement was truly co-opted.

I left the convention and went home to the dismay of my fellow Ron Paul delegates...

I tried again in 2012 to become involved with Rand, but he didn't get much support from the likes of whiners like you, so, here we are....

maybe next time right?...

That's the second time i've seen you claim you were involved in 2012 with the Rand Paul's Presidential campaign. Most Ron Paul people I know don't mistake the two.

 

[Bryan]

Cleaned up and re-opened.

Please keep things civil. It's best to just focus on the issues, not on each other.

Thanks!

 

[RJB]

Some of you guys take things way to personal. If you disagree with someone, big deal. These forums are for debating not arguing. I see some people carrying bad feelings from one thread and unloading on another. That boggles my mind. I've simultaneously had screaming matches with Christianliberty on one thread and a cordial discussion on another. I wish we could all go out and I could buy y'all a beer.

That's what is really killing this place.

 

[Origanalist]

Some of you guys take things way to personal. If you disagree with someone, big deal. These forums are for debating not arguing. I see some people carrying bad feelings from one thread and unloading on another. That boggles my mind. I've simultaneously had screaming matches with Christianliberty on one thread and a cordial discussion on another. I wish we could all go out and I could buy y'all a beer.

That's what is really killing this place.

Hey bite me you jerk, how would you like to get throat punched?

 

[Origanalist]

 

[Origanalist]

 

[RJB]

Hey bite me you jerk, how would you like to get throat punched?

Reported, ya dingus.

 

[Origanalist]

Reported, ya dingus.

Reported back, biatch.

 

[CCTelander]

Hey bite me you jerk, how would you like to get throat punched?

Travlyr?

 

[RJB]

Reported back, biatch.

Hey, report this:

 

[Origanalist]

Travlyr?

lol, shhhhhhh......

 

[Suzanimal]

Some of you guys take things way to personal. If you disagree with someone, big deal. These forums are for debating not arguing. I see some people carrying bad feelings from one thread and unloading on another. That boggles my mind. I've simultaneously had screaming matches with Christianliberty on one thread and a cordial discussion on another. I wish we could all go out and I could buy y'all a beer.

That's what is really killing this place.

+++++rep