The damage is done, the media did its job

[wsc321]

First of all, how many potential Ron Paul supporters wouldn't respond positively to the following question prior to Dr. Paul's explanation: "C'mon... you don't trust the media, do you?" IOW - aren't we already constrained to finding supporters among Americans who are either mistrusting of, or at least willing to question, the media?

So one approach would be to [1] remind a potential supporter that they cannot trust the media, then [2] simply point out that this is a decade old story about words Ron Paul himself has never written or spoken, and contradict everything he stands for. It's a simple mistake, nothing more, and the only dirt his opponents have ever been able to find on him.

 

[Ronstock '08]

Everywhere right now, the tv, the papers the blogs its all Ron Paul Racist. Even if he gets an interview before the next primary its going to be "ARE you a RACIST"
I am sick at how this is playing out.

We knew this was coming. It was just a matter of when.

 

[wsc321]

...His mistake was in trusting...

Great point.

 

[Ann Kobialka]

First I am getting very tired of the word Troll being thrown around on almost every thread I read anymoe.
Second this child that is telling people "WE DON"T NEED YOU" grow up.
Who really cares how devoted you are to a sky high dream, and how many noodles you ate to save up $20 bucks to send into the campaign. There are some adults here strategizing, not hero worshiping. Enough of that one.
Now my original point is this is going to have a very strong impact on the next primary state. People looking now because the campaign is moving to thier state are going to see and read this. It will influence thier vote, That's why its being done and that is what sickens me.
And my last point to you younger members here, the internet is tapped out. So all this get it to the top of dig and get it u tubed is not getting votes. I know in your circles it seems like you are on the top of the world in a movement that just can't loose. But in my circles, I'm 55 and a grandmother, no one knows who Ron Paul is. That's why he comes in 5th. If they have heard about him at work, the PTA, Church, ect it's he's fringe, crazy, liberal, or not electable. All the labels the MSM have applied to him. As a grandma I probably fielded 60 calls through the holidays with family and friends all over the country and thats what I got for responses.
Want to help stop looking down your runny noses at anyone over forty and get to work talking to voters who vote and have money. And as unconventional as this is go to your local nursing home and get your self a quick 50 voters by being nice to some real old folks for a couple hours. Everyone of them look forward to voting it gets them out for the day. And they vote for who the tv tells them to. Oh that's right your guys hate OLD people. Well because the old people are voting for mccain instead of Dr. Paul he won and we got 5th.

 

[RonPaulFTFW]

First I am getting very tired of the word Troll being thrown around on almost every thread I read anymoe.
Second this child that is telling people "WE DON"T NEED YOU" grow up.
Who really cares how devoted you are to a sky high dream, and how many noodles you ate to save up $20 bucks to send into the campaign. There are some adults here strategizing, not hero worshiping. Enough of that one.
Now my original point is this is going to have a very strong impact on the next primary state. People looking now because the campaign is moving to thier state are going to see and read this. It will influence thier vote, That's why its being done and that is what sickens me.
And my last point to you younger members here, the internet is tapped out. So all this get it to the top of dig and get it u tubed is not getting votes. I know in your circles it seems like you are on the top of the world in a movement that just can't loose. But in my circles, I'm 55 and a grandmother, no one knows who Ron Paul is. That's why he comes in 5th. If they have heard about him at work, the PTA, Church, ect it's he's fringe, crazy, liberal, or not electable. All the labels the MSM have applied to him. As a grandma I probably fielded 60 calls through the holidays with family and friends all over the country and thats what I got for responses.
Want to help stop looking down your runny noses at anyone over forty and get to work talking to voters who vote and have money. And as unconventional as this is go to your local nursing home and get your self a quick 50 voters by being nice to some real old folks for a couple hours. Everyone of them look forward to voting it gets them out for the day. And they vote for who the tv tells them to. Oh that's right your guys hate OLD people. Well because the old people are voting for mccain instead of Dr. Paul he won and we got 5th.

I'm almost 30 and I don't eat noodles. Thanks.
My point is that if you're letting hit pieces and smear jobs influence your weak and impressionable mind you're not going to help get the word out anyway.

So why try to beg these people to "stay with us" and "spread the word." It's obvious they are the kind of people who are easily swayed by the mainstream media and will jump on to any bandwagon that comes around. Who would support Ron Paul and understand his message and then turn their back on him when he needs them most? Right when he asked us all to stay together? A person who doesn't get it and never will, that's who.

As far As myself I'm very active in my meetup, hand out Paul DVDs and Canvass the City of Raleigh quite a bit. I'm constantly talking to real people "IRL" who need to hear Paul's message.

Your "hate old people" tirade isn't applicable and doesn't fit.

Age has nothing to do with be weak willed.

 

[Thumper]

Hey, maybe with all the negative media we can get the racist sheeple vote that would normally go to Thompson, McCain or Giuliani...just a thought.

So why try to beg these people to "stay with us" and "spread the word." It's obvious they are the kind of people who are easily swayed by the mainstream media and will jump on to any bandwagon that comes around. Who would support Ron Paul and understand his message and then turn their back on him when he needs them most? Right when he asked us all to stay together? A person who doesn't get it and never will, that's who.

From a business standpoint, customer retention is cheaper than finding new customers. We don't need to be hemmoraging supporters and trying to fill the gap with new ones for a net gain of zero new supporters. Getting new people on board is important, but if they're only replacing people that we're losing it doesn't help matters much. Instead of telling people that have concerns about what is being said in the media to "Fuck Off", "Grow Up", "Leave" etc etc etc we should be trying to retain their support.

I know dealing with negativity isnt fun but if someone already want's to support RP it shouldnt be that dfficult to help them understand what is going on or at least keep them from rushing to judgement until this issue shakes out.

 

[CountryRoads]

Racist is the drug war that puts hundreds of thousands of minorities in prison. Ron Paul wants to stop the drug war. Ron Paul is the anti-racist.

 

[RonPaulFTFW]

Racist is the drug war that puts hundreds of thousands of minorities in prison. Ron Paul wants to stop the drug war. Ron Paul is the anti-racist.

Yeah... why talk about the real issue of what's racist when you can bitch and complain about a ghost written smear job.

 

[WeWillWin08]

I strongly suggest that everyone please read this thread "Paulites, We are WINNING!"

I think tihs puts forth some very good arguements about what is going on.

 

[Guymontag]

"I dont want to trade with them, they only want to trade Burkas"

"We will send them to meet those virgins they always talk about"

Those two comments are just as racist as what what said in the newsletter but because it refers to an American enemy its okay, just like McCain saying "Gooks". I couldnt imagine being a muslim in this country and having to deal with that kind of hate. The media singling out some old news letters when the realm racism is happening on the Fox News debate stage shows that our society accepts racism with open arms as long as its not blacks, gays, jews or mexicans. "Rag heads" and "Gooks" are fair game.

 

[evadmurd]

People hear his name. The smart people investigate. The smart people will find out it's not true.

It's unfortunate that most voters are not smart people. baaaaaa.

 

[robatsu]

This scandal has two components. The first is "are you a racist'? The second is, how could this have happened on your watch.

In the cnn interview and other damage control, RP very effectively addresses the first issue, whether he is a racist or not. Most reasonable people are willing to grant that he is not.

But the second issue, of how something like this could have gone on, even intermittently, for a couple of years, has not been addressed. The previous story, a rogue writer dismissed after one or two troublesome passages was fully believable. The current story, a newsletter with your name on it containing occasionally scurrilous material - how many of us would not know about something like that going out for several years under our names. His explanation just isn't believable, which actually is good, because if it was believable, it would mean Ron Paul is a complete idiot. But we know he is not, so noone reasonable can reallly believe the story.

Anyhow, as much as I love Ron Paul, check my post history, I'm far from a troll, I don't see recovery in a meaningful way from this crisis until he can address, "ok, we know you're not a racist, but how did this happen" and the answer is more than a mysterious one-armed man. Even for those of us who don't care, this isn't a moral issue, but a necessary piece of a campaign going forward - believe me, you need a pretty darn good explanation about how a racist newsletter was published in your name to remain viable for President of the U.S. in 2008

Anyone who thinks they are picking on RP is kidding themselves. This would be made hay of on any candidate - look at what happened to Trent Lott, for instance.

So while like most people on this board, I was heartened by Ron on CNN, the damage control is only partially complete. Just as I was hoping that HQ would do something instead of their initial lame-o response, they did. I'm also hoping that they are keeping on top of this, realizing that they need to more fully address the second element of the story.

Just my opinion.

 

[mconder]

People hear his name. The smart people investigate. The smart people will find out it's not true.

But.... Intelligence is something you don't find often.

All two of them.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

no publicity is bad publicity

at least ppl hear his name

Sheeple associate the word "racist" with his name, not exactly a good thing.

 

[Iwantchange]

Look if we act like a "moth to a flame" then it's going to get the attention we don't want. In about a week most Americans will forget that it even happen. I think Ron Paul has done an excellent job of adressing it, and we should follow in his foot steps. Don't bring it up unless it's brought up, and if it is adress it the same way Ron Paul did.

 

[BLS]

The reason I am upset about this now, and was not before this week, was that before it seemed like it was in one or two newletters from 1992. I understand how a ghostwritter could put offensive remarks in one or two that Dr. Paul overlooked.

But now that TNR story is out, I know that's not what happened. These newsletters went out with this shit in them for a number of years. Would any of you allow a newsletter to go out under your own name for years and not look at them? Please. I'm sure Dr. Paul at least reviewed some of them, at least after they went out. And after he saw this vile stuff he should have fired or at least reprimanded the offender(s) (and found out who they were!) and put a stop to the practice. He didn't, or if he did it wasn't for a number of years.

I still plan on voting for Dr. Paul because he's the candidate with the closest views (by far) to mine. But I'm not sure if I can campaign for him because when you campaign for someone you tell voters "Vote for this guy because he's an upstanding man." I could say "vote for this guy because his views are great" and then when they ask me about his character say "well, he really fucked up with this newsletter he had, but he's now kind of apologized" but that won't be terribly effective, will it?

You guys may not realize it now, but this story may have rolled-back much of the good that Dr. Paul's campaign has done for the freedom movement. I've been in this movement for 15 years, and I've spend many many hours and dollars and family strain on Dr. Paul's campaign. But for the last 72 hours I've been about as low about politics as I've ever been. I'm disappointed in Ron Paul and his staff and I'm disappointed that this chance to help bring back liberty in our lifetimes has suffered a large (but not fatal, I hope) blow.

Brother...you and I have been around here a long time.

You are allowing yourself to fall into the trap the media wants you to fall into.
This is their one and only 'ace up their sleeve', and it doesn't have real teeth.

If you allow them to manipulate you into getting down on this, and withdrawing from the campaign, they win. And that's exactly what they are trying to do.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

Don't let your emotions get in the way of your judgement.
(ha ha...I should talk....but you know what i"m saying)

NOBODY.....anywhere, ever, can come forward and say they have heard Ron say anything like this.

So regardless of whether he knew or not, he does NOT share that belief.
Did he screw up? Yup. Somewhere, somethings not right.

Who's he covering for? I don't know. Maybe he really didn't know.
It's just quite possible that our good Dr was blind to the whole thing.

 

[RevolutionSD]

We're in the attack stage folks.
None of us should be surprised.
I called this several weeks ago when the first tiny little attacks were coming out. I said it would get a LOT worse. It always does.

First they ignore you
Then they make fun of you
Then they attack you
Then you WIN

This is NOT the time to give up because of a baseless attack. It was expected. Let's counter it wherever possible and move on...we've got some winning to do!

 

[RonPaulFTFW]

I think a lot of you are forgetting that Ron Paul stands for Liberty. The real meaning.

That means that if racists, nazi's, black panthers, truthers, anarchist, commies, whatever... if they want to say things they have that right to say it, as long as they aren't violent or threaten the rights of others.

They have the right to believe what they want to believe, vote, give money, write papers... they are Americans. Ron Paul believes in the true concept of liberty that all people have the right to think whatever they want, even if it's disgusting and vile. I support that too.

Ron Paul is a christian and is anti-abortion. I'm very very against both of those ideals but I still love the man.

Why are you letting the MSM push you out of this?

Please grow some stones and stand up for something instead of worrying about being PC.

 

[Joe3113]

We're in the attack stage folks.
None of us should be surprised.
I called this several weeks ago when the first tiny little attacks were coming out. I said it would get a LOT worse. It always does.

First they ignore you
Then they make fun of you
Then they attack you
Then you WIN

This is NOT the time to give up because of a baseless attack. It was expected. Let's counter it wherever possible and move on...we've got some winning to do!

+1

I'm actually liking all the attention

I'm assuming there are still a lot of closet racists in the south right?

 

[korch]

Out of curiosity...

I see two streams of thought in this argument:

1) He's at worst a closet racist, at best delinquent in management by allowing these articles to be published.

2) He doesn't know who wrote them, and he didn't write them--so who cares?


I'd like to offer a third, that, to me, appears to be completely absent in all discussion.

The articles themselves, while distasteful, are neither racist, homophobic, or anti-semitic.

The articles on the LA riots aren't racist. They're harsh, but neither racist or false. If people can't deal with it, it's not Ron's place to apologize for hurting their feelings--regardless of who wrote it.

The David Duke article does not praise David Duke. It argues that Duke was able to garner 9% of the black vote running on the platform of individual liberty despite his background, and questions what it was that allowed an admitted KKK member to get that many votes from black voters--concluding that the liberty message is powerful enough to overcome even Duke's serious issues to get a reasonable amount of minority vote. It is not a praise of Duke--it is a praise of the liberty message using Duke to make the point as to how powerful it is.

The MLK articles (not in Ron's writing style from what I've seen of it) is very harsh, but apparently true as well. The data offered appears to be pointing to another author's work (that author being a black man who outs this info.) The article is also an argument of voting against a federal holiday for King--which, FWIW, is no longer celebrated at the corporation I work for since being purchased by the Brits. (I guess you don't have to worry about not honoring King's holiday if you aren't a US company as it can't be used in the squealing points.)

The articles on staying in the closet just appear to be ranting decrying the need for homosexuals to proudly proclaim their orientation to all. Where I live, there is a fairly large football homecoming parade yearly that always has a gay pride float where the participants are often clad in leather chest straps and chaps, dirty dancing and making out with their partners for shock value. Simultaneously, the streets are usually lined with parents with small children. (Adults don't watch parades by and large.) Now, I don't give a sh!t who you sleep with, love, or want to marry (hell marriage is financial trap in the modern era anyway, and if gays get state-backed marriage, they may come to regret it)--but no parent should have to answer a lot of questions from a 5-6 year old after seeing a float like this when no other float's parade participants feel the need to act this way in what is designed as a family atmosphere.

As to the anti-semitism, being against the Israel lobby in Washington is in no way anti-semitic period.

I guess my point is this:

We are buying into a two-pronged smokescreen whereby we are now correctly defending Paul against the attacks, but missing the point that the attacks have been framed to generate dissent due to matters of taste--not factual -isms.

Top that off with the blatancy of some posters who are here to stir the sh!t in a "sympathetic" manner, and you have what I am now witnessing.

It's a facade! The whole argument!

Hell, if I knew the authors, I wouldn't out them either in the face of a bullsh!t scandal.

I'm done now.