The Current Advantage of Socialized Health Care

RonPaulalways

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I just wrote this article. Please let me know what you think and digg it if you like it:

http://digg.com/health/The_Current_Advantage_of_Socialized_Health_Care

http://kineticreaction.blogspot.com/2009/06/current-advantage-of-socialized-health.html

The Current Advantage of Socialized Health Care

My debate with Politicsforum.org member, Order, found here, got me thinking about socialized health care and how it differs from private health insurance as it exists today.

Order's argument was that people would prefer the security of having a safety net provided by the government, over the higher probability of being wealthy provided by the free market. I disagreed, and still disagree, but the exercise of defending my position and comparing private vs public insurance led me to see an advantage that a government run health care system has over private health insurance, even though overall, I still see the private health insurance option, i.e. the free market health care option, as superior to the socialized health care option.

Basically, with a government run health care program, you are forced to pay a premium proportional to your income for your whole life, and in turn, you are guaranteed medical coverage for your whole life.

There is no analogous private option, simply because the legal mechanisms don't exist for a person to choose to enter into a life long contract with a private insurance company wherein a percentage of the person's income is taken by the insurance provider every month in exchange for a lifelong guarantee of coverage. For example, whereas the government can do an audit to verify your income, that option doesn't exist for private health insurance companies.

The reason for this is obvious. Society cannot trust private companies with the powers currently enjoyed by government tax collection agencies, and it is unwilling to socialize the cost of auditing individuals to verify contractual commitments of income sharing.

What I am wondering is, does a legal mechanism exist by which private companies could provide what government-run health insurance currently provides: a guarantee of lifelong health coverage in exchange for a percentage a person's income and the broad power to collect it, without the risk of granting private companies dangerous governmental powers, and without imposing a heavy administration cost on government in enforcing compliance with the client - insurance provider contract.

Perhaps one way to do it would be for health insurance providers, after paying a fee to cover the government's administration costs, to be allowed to offer lifelong contracts where their clients' premiums would be incorporated into their individual income tax, so that the government collects the insurance premium for the insurance company. There could also be a small surcharge, for example 2% of the premium, that the government would collect to offset the per unit administration costs.

This is just one quickly thought out proposal. Doubtless there are many other possible routes.

Regardless of the specifics of the program, the idea if proposed would be highly controversial, as in some ways it is similar to indentured servitude, in that a person voluntarily gives up some of their liberty in exchange for material compensation. On a close analysis though, it's not any worse from an individual liberty standpoint than government run socialized health care, and in fact would afford people with at least the option of not opting into a higher-taxation-for-life-in-exchange-for-guaranteed-coverage arrangement, something people living in countries with socialized health care don't have.
 
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The State would undoubtedly get in the way of any such endeavor. It is certainly possible under libertarian (that is, anarcho-capitalist) legal theory, of course.

That is, of course, assuming that people would even bother with health insurance in a free market situation. A hefty assumption.
 
So why is it right for someone to pay a proportion of their income for the same service? And why is it right for some to be denied treatment even though they paid for that service?

And people can choose having a safety net over being wealthy, but they should do it for themselves and save their own money, not tax others to subsidize their choices, which is immoral.
 
TGGRV said:
And people can choose having a safety net over being wealthy, but they should do it for themselves and save their own money, not tax others to subsidize their choices, which is immoral.

I agree, I don't support socialized health care. I favor free market health care. One advantage that I see government-run socialized health care as having over the current private health insurance options though is the fact that people can get a lifetime guarantee of coverage.

Conza said:
The market didn't fail - your analysis did.

I didn't say the market failed. I'm arguing that the government has powers that it doesn't afford the market.

I've edited my article now to make it more clear that I support free market health care.
 
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The most government interference I would tolerate is a universal health tax credit. I think some in the GOP might be pushing this, but it's still a socialist scheme.
 
I agree, I don't support socialized health care. I favor free market health care. One advantage that I see government-run socialized health care as having over the current private health insurance options though is the fact that people can get a lifetime guarantee of coverage.
Without the government regulation, people would choose their own insurance or could do it at normal prices once they'd retire.
 
Taxation is theft. If government was not involved in areas such as health care, education, welfare, wars, etc. then there would be so much more prosperity that private charity could more than handle the burden for the very few poor sick people.
 
We do not have free market health care right now. We have extreme regulation health care right now, and the government has failed us again.

A socialized health care system has NO advantages over a free market heath system.
Not in one area will it come close.
 
Tax credits are not tax rebates. A tax credit only permits an individual who "owes" taxes to keep more of their own money. In other words, if a tax credit is for $3000, and you "owe" $10000, you only have to send in $7000 of your money to the state. If you "owe" $1000, you would send nothing. On ther other hand, with a tax rebate of $3000, if you "owed" $0, you would get a refund of $3000 taken from other individuals. A tax credit, unlike a tax rebate, does not redistribute free money.
 
I didn't say the market failed. I'm arguing that the government has powers that it doesn't afford the market.

I've edited my article now to make it more clear that I support free market health care.

It is called COERCION / FORCE.

Immoral, unethical and unnecessary.

If the State exists, it ain't going to be a freemarket in healthcare.
 
Conza said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonPaulalways View Post
I didn't say the market failed. I'm arguing that the government has powers that it doesn't afford the market.

I've edited my article now to make it more clear that I support free market health care.


It is called COERCION / FORCE.

Immoral, unethical and unnecessary.

If the State exists, it ain't going to be a freemarket in healthcare.

Besides the coercive factor in government run health care, is the life-long guarantee that only the State can provide, something that COULD be provided by the market NON-COERCIVELY, if the State legalized such contracts.
 
Besides the coercive factor in government run health care, is the life-long guarantee that only the State can provide, something that COULD be provided by the market NON-COERCIVELY, if the State legalized such contracts.

The State doesn't need to legalize contracts. That begs questions completely.

The state violates contracts on a daily basis.

If you want the literature I can provide a link to it.
 
One advantage that I see government-run socialized health care as having over the current private health insurance options though is the fact that people can get a lifetime guarantee of coverage.

Where did you see anything about a guarantee? In such programs, once a person becomes old or otherwise worthless, the state doesn't see a reason to continue providing care. Is coverage still desirable when there's little to no health care that goes along with it?
 
RonPaulalways, I forgot to add. In free healthcare, the government denies you treatment if it's not cost-effective. For example, your cancer meds are too expensive, too bad for you. Buy them out of pocket, but don't forget to pay taxes for the free healthcare when you're feeling good. This besides the fact that the standard of care is lower. Enjoy the queue lines for tests and so on. And don't forget to go to a private center to get tests if you want better ones, where yes, you will pay straight up.
 
Tax credits are not tax rebates. A tax credit only permits an individual who "owes" taxes to keep more of their own money. In other words, if a tax credit is for $3000, and you "owe" $10000, you only have to send in $7000 of your money to the state. If you "owe" $1000, you would send nothing. On ther other hand, with a tax rebate of $3000, if you "owed" $0, you would get a refund of $3000 taken from other individuals. A tax credit, unlike a tax rebate, does not redistribute free money.
I always understood tax credits to allow for a negative tax burden. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
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