"The Constitution was intended to expand power of the government"

[Galileo Galilei]

An excellent reason not to have a standing army in the first place!

It wasn't a standing army. It was an army trying to kick the British out of North America. You are the one who supports the standing army. If you don't pay the, the army usually does not disband.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Since the conversation is going to be propaganda only as you have no facts to present, here is a nice excerpt:



Since the Federalists, who brought the misery of super sized central government upon the American people, were unable to clean up their own ranks ridding us of Hamiltonians, I do not predict Federalists surviving round three of an American Revolution. They will become an extinct species in America buried right along side their Federalist Hamiltonian allies.

P.S. Under Hamilton's debt plan it was only about 54 million... 27 million in domestic debt, 26 million of State debt, and 11 million of foreign debt. But not all debt was included:



Let me know when you have a breakdown to share on that 75 mil.

The States owed debts as well. You still haven't explained how the army, militia, and others owed money were to be paid under the AoC. The fact is, Hamilton;'s plan is no worse and probably better than just blowing off all the people who money is owed to, you idea.

 

[Minuteman2012]

The liberal poster is right to a degree, the Constitution was written to expand the powers of the Central Government, but it had very clear and defined powers set out in Article 1 Section 8. However, just because it was written to expand central power, doesn't mean it allows for the kind of Federal power grabs he endorses. His argument is a non-sequitur.

 

[Flash]

Simply don't follow their edicts. Civil Disobedience, Agorism, entreprenuership (developing the institutions now to replace the State), etc. The State gets its power from consent. Even if a small minority were to refuse consent it would come down pretty fast. Look at the success in New Hampshire. If you contested, and refused consent to every action by the State it would topple pretty fast. They even have to shut court down now in NH and refuse to try cases because the system is so backed up. That's one small way. Ultimately though, we have to change the "schelling point" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schelling_point), of society. It's going to be a long road, and our greatest successes will happen when the old generation dies off, and is replaced with the younger and newer generation who understands, and values freedom and liberty.

Sunshine patriots need not apply.

PS: Here is a great piece written by one of the all-time great thinkers -- La Boetie (http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/laboetie.html)

PPS: Geographical prominence. Those of us who love and value liberty must get together. Being spread out and severely placed in the minority is detrimental. It is for this reason I am moving to NH next year. We need all the voluntaryists, and liberty lovers, activists, etc. we can get. The more the merrier!

What part of New Hampshire? I would recommend Keene since it seems like all the activism is there.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

The States owed debts as well. You sill, haven't explained how the army, militia, and others owed money were to be paid under the AoC. The fact is, Hamilton;'s plan is no worse and probably better than just blowing off all the people who money is owed to, you idea.

As soon as you account for the 75 mil I will be happy to play wise overlord and resolve it.

In the meantime I am going to be exiting this thread until I can tolerate some more of your bullshit debate tactics. I will leave you with this profound parting thought I articulated earlier in the thread until I should decide to return or you pull some evidence out of your ass to justify 75 mil:

Government should never be allowed to serve two masters.

to borrow money, or emit bills on the credit of the United States

And that was included in the AoC before it ever found it's way into the Constitution.

 

[8th Degree]

PETITION FOR ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING FOR 11th & 14th AMENDMENT

PETITION FOR ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING FOR 11th & 14th AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-48361/TS-398313.mp3
Besides violating the 11th & 14th Amendment, the Congress has deliberately hidden from the people the original ratified 13th Amendment, "The Act of Nobility,"which prohibits all Nobles from serving in public office and makes them non-citizens. Therefore all persons who are "Esquires," a title of Nobility, are non-citizens of the Republic which by virtue of thier magnamity in Congress makes null and void every Amendment created thereafter unlawfull and illegal since 1819. As well, every Act, Law and/or Federal Regulations are null and void along with every Federal Agency created after 1819 and in particular since 1860 where the President was a known Esquire, holding Noble Status and conducted, along with Congress, an unlawful and illegal Civil War.
Click on the more link to read the whole document.
http://tinyurl.com/2br59ss

Join the Private Attorney General network http://privateattorneygeneral.spruz.com/?display=E6D836BF-CA7D-4133-917F-24A29EA250FB&save=html

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

As soon as you account for the 75 mil I will be happy to play wise overlord and resolve it.

In the meantime I am going to be exiting this thread until I can tolerate some more of your bullshit debate tactics. I will leave you with this profound parting thought I articulated earlier in the thread until I should decide to return or you pull some evidence out of your ass to justify 75 mil:

Government should never be allowed to serve two masters.



And that was included in the AoC before it ever found it's way into the Constitution.

That won't happen any time soon. More important, he purposely brought it up to sidetrack the real issues. It's clear his holy bible Constitution is flawed, nobody has defended it without bringing up the tired old pathetic argument "times were different."

Well times have changed and it's about time we correct the bullshit. The constitution has set up so many barriers, it's fucking disgusting. Sure it has succeeding in what it was designed to do, keep the unelected aristocrats wealthy, but it has yet to dispense justice.

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

As soon as you account for the 75 mil I will be happy to play wise overlord and resolve it.

In the meantime I am going to be exiting this thread until I can tolerate some more of your bullshit debate tactics. I will leave you with this profound parting thought I articulated earlier in the thread until I should decide to return or you pull some evidence out of your ass to justify 75 mil:

Government should never be allowed to serve two masters.



And that was included in the AoC before it ever found it's way into the Constitution.

You know what? We should feel sorry for him, he is such a sad soul. He has such disdain for his own mother. He cherishes a constitution that exudes his own mother from voting, my god he must hate her. A boy that that has such little respect for his own mother must think she's a piece of shit bitch. I'm sure both of us agree our mothers are human, it's sad to realize some people think their own mother is some kind of subhuman dog.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

As soon as you account for the 75 mil I will be happy to play wise overlord and resolve it.

In the meantime I am going to be exiting this thread until I can tolerate some more of your bullshit debate tactics. I will leave you with this profound parting thought I articulated earlier in the thread until I should decide to return or you pull some evidence out of your ass to justify 75 mil:

Government should never be allowed to serve two masters.



And that was included in the AoC before it ever found it's way into the Constitution.

According to the sources I've read, the total debt of the states and federal government combined was about $75 million in 1789, when Washington first became president. If you have better sources, please share them with us. The money was in general owed to military officers, soldiers from the continental army, state militia officers & soldiers, suppliers of the military, banks, and diplomatic officers. I don't have the breakdown in front of me.

A lot of the debt had been sold off onto the secondary market, with IOU's trading at below 10% of face value. This was another huge problem for the AoC because desperate farmers, needing money, might have an IOU worth $100. Since they figured the AoC could never pay it, they would sell the IOU for say, $6, just to get some cash. People like you, of course, don't care about poor farmers and veterans from the Revolution getting ripped off. Of course, your theories are much more important than reality.

Just to give an example of the financial problems, one of our greatest heroes, James Monroe, a man who took a bullet at the battle of Trenton, and who freed Thomas Paine from prison during the French Revolution, Monroe was never repaid for his diplomatic expenses in Europe, and went to his grave on July 4, 1826 bankrupt. So that means this giant central government you are talking about still couldn't even pay James Monroe!

Another example - Joseph Plumb Martin was born in 1760. In 1775, he joined the continental army. He fought for our freedom all the way until Yorktown in 1781, rising in rank. In 1830, Martin wrote a book describing his times. In it, he complained that the government never paid him enough for his services. Martin died in 1850.

btw - In the French Revolution, the military took over. Guess what, the military got paid after they took over.

 

[phill4paul]

Whether or not it was intended to expand power it is a damn sight better than the machinations of James Monroe, Alexander Hamilton and Nathaniel Gortham to petition Prince Henry of Prussia to become king of America in 1786.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Whether or not it was intended to expand power it is a damn sight better than the machinations of James Monroe, Alexander Hamilton and Nathaniel Gortham to petition Prince Henry of Prussia to become king of America in 1786.

got a source for your bullshit?

 

[phill4paul]

got a source for your bullshit?

The Peoples Almanac Volume #2 published 1978 page 400.

If you don't have the book I'm sure you can google it.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Just to give an example of the financial problems, one of our greatest heroes, James Monroe, a man who took a bullet at the battle of Trenton, and who freed Thomas Paine from prison during the French Revolution, Monroe was never repaid for his diplomatic expenses in Europe, and went to his grave on July 4, 1826 bankrupt. So that means this giant central government you are talking about still couldn't even pay James Monroe!

Another example - Joseph Plumb Martin was born in 1760. In 1775, he joined the continental army. He fought for our freedom all the way until Yorktown in 1781, rising in rank. In 1830, Martin wrote a book describing his times. In it, he complained that the government never paid him enough for his services. Martin died in 1850.

Now you are making my points for me. Absolutely correct. this giant central government that...

1) Reorganized under a Federalist coo for the purpose of money, which expressly delegated complete powers of taxation, and the power to collect said taxation using force.

...did not pay people such as James Monroe.

How f'n pathetic is that?

This goes to my point earlier about the Federalist cabal. You could not keep your own house in order from the get go! Your Federalist boy Hamilton had his fingers in everything. That is what you want people to sign on board for? A Constitutional do over? I don't think so... more like move over when the GOP fails to deliver one final time.

Isn't your whole pro-ConstitutionalistGlobalist argument independent States are incapable of paying the military or voluntarily resolving problems without strong central government based on the theory there would be a military takeover?

Considering the military got fucked anyway and the speculators made all the profits under the Constitution, how does your theory of a military takeover that never happened holdup? The damn military should have taken over to stop the Federalist coo because the Colonial Militia was We The People and they probably would have implemented something with a little more common sense than the aristocracy.

This would also be the same giant central government when you were trying to claim this hogwash:

The power of an individual federal income tax on wages was not allowed by the original Constitution, nor was it allowed in the rulings right after 1913, per the Supreme Court and the Constitution.

But someone got paid under the debt acts which is why there can be no discussion without the nitty gritty details of what debt was being claimed and who got paid. As you pointed out a lot of the actual military already got paid because they sold the IOU's to speculators for a fraction of face IOU value. That is what happens in the free market. Bad debt gets liquidated.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Posts #271 & #272 made my week!

 

[Galileo Galilei]

The Peoples Almanac Volume #2 published 1978 page 400.

If you don't have the book I'm sure you can google it.

I checked google books, and that page is not available. Monroe never did what you claim he did. You need a better source than third-hand hearsay.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Now you are making my points for me. Absolutely correct. this giant central government that...

1) Reorganized under a Federalist coo for the purpose of money, which expressly delegated complete powers of taxation, and the power to collect said taxation using force.

...did not pay people such as James Monroe.

How f'n pathetic is that?

This goes to my point earlier about the Federalist cabal. You could not keep your own house in order from the get go! Your Federalist boy Hamilton had his fingers in everything. That is what you want people to sign on board for? A Constitutional do over? I don't think so... more like move over when the GOP fails to deliver one final time.

Isn't your whole pro-ConstitutionalistGlobalist argument independent States are incapable of paying the military or voluntarily resolving problems without strong central government based on the theory there would be a military takeover?

Considering the military got fucked anyway and the speculators made all the profits under the Constitution, how does your theory of a military takeover that never happened holdup? The damn military should have taken over to stop the Federalist coo because the Colonial Militia was We The People and they probably would have implemented something with a little more common sense than the aristocracy.

This would also be the same giant central government when you were trying to claim this hogwash:



But someone got paid under the debt acts which is why there can be no discussion without the nitty gritty details of what debt was being claimed and who got paid. As you pointed out a lot of the actual military already got paid because they sold the IOU's to speculators for a fraction of face IOU value. That is what happens in the free market. Bad debt gets liquidated.

So you think things turned out better than in France? How was the AoC going to pay it's debts to the military? You ignore the 8000 pound gorilla in the corner.

 

[phill4paul]

I checked google books, and that page is not available. Monroe never did what you claim he did. You need a better source than third-hand hearsay.

No. I don't.

I meant if you don't have the book then google the information I provided.

I could give two shits whether it was Monroe or any other specifically. But the fact remains that it was considered by some that were founders and I'm glad that the Prince refused the proposal.

I prefer the Constitution to this endeavor.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

No. I don't.

I meant if you don't have the book then google the information I provided.

I could give two shits whether it was Monroe or any other specifically. But the fact remains that it was considered by some that were founders and I'm glad that the Prince refused the proposal.

I prefer the Constitution to this endeavor.

None of these three people favored a king. If they actually wanted a king, they would have promoted George Washington.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

So you think things turned out better than in France? How was the AoC going to pay it's debts to the military? You ignore the 8000 pound gorilla in the corner.

The soldiers' families, friends, and churches would have raised funds through charity. (people still have to raise money to support soldiers, in fact, no thanks to your beloved CONstitution)

 

[phill4paul]

None of these three people favored a king. If they actually wanted a king, they would have promoted George Washington.

as you said...

got a source for your bullshit?