"The Constitution was intended to expand power of the government"

[Galileo Galilei]

Still waiting for an answer..... How was the AoC government going to pay the money it owed to military officers and soldiers? Should the military then arrest the AoC congress in an attempt to collect the debt? You believe in contract enforcement, right?

 

[Galileo Galilei]

The silence is deafening.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Does everyone here know that one of the first orders of business under the new Constitution was how to pay back the war debts from the Revolution? This issue also caused the first break between James Madison and Alexander Hamilton. The AoC advocates certainly don't know about this.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Explain how the AoC government was going to pay back all the money it owed to Revolutionary War Officers and patriotic soldiers? The debts amounted to around $75 million dollars.

If they didn't pay, would the military be justified in arresting the AoC congress for violating the law?

Before I assume the role of wise overlord please share the details and a break down of the Revolutionary War debt.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Before I assume the role of wise overlord please share the details and a break down of the Revolutionary War debt.

Oh, you didn't know about this before you came up with your lame theories? Nice. Real nice.

 

[Danke]

Does everyone here know that one of the first orders of business under the new Constitution was how to pay back the war debts from the Revolution?

It is my understanding that it was a major impetus for the creation of the Constitution. Yes.

Just look up the legal definition of Constitutor.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Okay, Ron Paul Forum posters! Don't let me down here!

I am in a constant political debate on a comic book message board that consists of 80% liberals, 10% Republican, and literally TWO libertarians. I just posted this to someone:



to which a liberal law degree grad replied with the following:



Let's hear your thoughts on this, I need some more ammo to fire back at this guy. Personally, I think he is being ignorant of the many amendments of the Constitution to cherry pick his point of view. Hell, he even proved that in his own words.

He's right. Compare the AoC or the DoI and the Constitution, and you'll see a vast expansion of Centralized government. (note: I didn't have time to read the whole thread)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Does everyone here know that one of the first orders of business under the new Constitution was how to pay back the war debts from the Revolution? This issue also caused the first break between James Madison and Alexander Hamilton. The AoC advocates certainly don't know about this.

I know about it, but the Constitution was not/is not the best solution. P.S. The Revolutionary War was unnecessary in the first place (secession would have prevented the war), so your point is self-serving and misleading to begin with. I call shinanigans on thee!

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Oh, you didn't know about this before you came up with your lame theories? Nice. Real nice.

Man do I love it when you make it personal, especially when the topic is American War. What were your ancestors doing during the revolutionary war? Were they even in America at the time? We're they fighting for the British? Or were your ancestors in the sorry ass ruling class throwing the patriots in debtor prisons after the war? What were they doing?

The actual figure including foreign and domestic debts is going to be closer to $100 million. It has already been pointed out the Constitution is nothing more than a surety document. That is the whole purpose of it. As frequently as I post about the Uniform Commercial Code you don't think I know what a financial instrument looks like? I guess you missed my no government should ever serve two masters comment earlier in the thread?

I am not doing your homework for you. Post a debt breakdown and then we can talk about the debts owed to soldiers which is going to be a much smaller chunk of the debt compared to other state or continental creditors.

Then if you want to talk about Federalist champions such as Mr. Gerrymandering's speech on why club fed should assume the debt of the states we can certainly talk about that too.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

I know about it, but the Constitution was not/is not the best solution. P.S. The Revolutionary War was unnecessary in the first place (secession would have prevented the war), so your point is self-serving and misleading to begin with. I call shinanigans on thee!

That's what the Revolution was, a secession. The British then invaded us. So we had to raise an army on borrowed money to fight them off. You still dodged the question as how to pay the US military officers and soldiers. In fact, all the AoC defenders have dodged it. Because you are ignorant of hisory and think you are smarter & more patriotic than our Founders. You're not.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

He's right. Compare the AoC or the DoI and the Constitution, and you'll see a vast expansion of Centralized government. (note: I didn't have time to read the whole thread)

So you favor a military dictatorship instead? Our Founders OPPOSED a military dictatorship. And a central government that uses up about 1.5% of the GNP is not very centralized in my opinion.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Man do I love it when you make it personal, especially when the topic is American War. What were your ancestors doing during the revolutionary war? Were they even in America at the time? We're they fighting for the British? Or were your ancestors in the sorry ass ruling class throwing the patriots in debtor prisons after the war? What were they doing?

The actual figure including foreign and domestic debts is going to be closer to $100 million. It has already been pointed out the Constitution is nothing more than a surety document. That is the whole purpose of it. As frequently as I post about the Uniform Commercial Code you don't think I know what a financial instrument looks like? I guess you missed my no government should ever serve two masters comment earlier in the thread?

I am not doing your homework for you. Post a debt breakdown and then we can talk about the debts owed to soldiers which is going to be a much smaller chunk of the debt compared to other state or continental creditors.

Then if you want to talk about Federalist champions such as Mr. Gerrymandering's speech on why club fed should assume the debt of the states we can certainly talk about that too.

Lot's of babble, but no answer on how the AoC would pay the army. If you don't pay the army, they usually take over. Just take a look at what happened after Mexico seceeded and gained independence.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

So you favor a military dictatorship instead? Our Founders OPPOSED a military dictatorship. And a central government that uses up about 1.5% of the GNP is not very centralized in my opinion.

You know very well I don't favor military dictatorship. A central government that takes up 1.5% of GNP is less centralized than the one we have now. (It's more accurate to say that "some of" the founders opposed military dictatorship. Washington's supporters wanted him to be king-and he would have been if he hadn't resigned) My argument was the "lesser of two evils" one. Really, the best route is Voluntaryism. Sorry to cause confusion.:o

 

[Galileo Galilei]

You know very well I don't favor military dictatorship. A central government that takes up 1.5% of GNP is less centralized than the one we have now. My argument was the "lesser of two evils" one. Really, the best route is Voluntaryism. Sorry to cause confusion.:o

You do favor a military dictatorship becasue you oppose paying the army. In most historical situations, the army would have a plant in the congress. You fit that role perfectly. We had plants or the army sitting in congress while the Newburgh conspiracy unfolded.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Lot's of babble, but no answer on how the AoC would pay the army. If you don't pay the army, they usually take over. Just take a look at what happened after Mexico seceeded and gained independence.

That is because the conversation is still waiting for you to publish a breakdown of the revolutionary war debts for it to proceed.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

You do favor a military dictatorship becasue you oppose paying the army. In most historical situations, the army would have a plant in the congress. You fit that role perfectly. We had plants or the army sitting in congress while the Newburgh conspiracy unfolded.

Grasping at straws, I see. Nice and desperate art thou! lolz! If only you could be honest in regards to my opinion, that would be a nice start.:o I've written extensively about my opposition to standing armies, as did the finest Anti-Federalists. Nice of you to conveniently ignore that.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Grasping at straws, I see. Nice and desperate art thou! lolz! If only you could be honest in regards to my opinion, that would be a nice start.:o I've written extensively about my opposition to standing armies, as did the finest Anti-Federalists. Nice of you to conveniently ignore that.

Great, you oppose standing armies. Shoud the army be disbanded before paying them? Or after?

 

[Galileo Galilei]

That is because the conversation is still waiting for you to publish a breakdown of the revolutionary war debts for it to proceed.

try a google. Our Founding Fathers already knew this stuff when they made their decisions. You have made your decision without knowing about it.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

try a google. Our Founding Fathers already knew this stuff when they made their decisions. You have made your decision without knowing about it.

Let me know when you have something to present that can actually be discussed. Do your own googling to substantiate your claims.

 

[low preference guy]

The anti-Federalists who said the Constitution would lead to a big central government were not out there shouting; "Oh my God, in 1913 we are going to have a big central government!"

1790
1798

And worst of all, 1861.

The fact that all these things happened within 100 years, some within 10 years, shows that the Constitutional order is really weak. If Jefferson died sooner for some reason, the First Central Bank probably would've collapsed the fledging country. So the complete centralization of power didn't happen within the lifetime of the Founders due to exceptional circumstances, such as having exceptional people like Jefferson, not because of having the Constitution. And now, not even exceptional people can stop the centralization. Google "Barry Goldwater" to see what I am talking about.