The case for the occurence of algorithmic vote flipping

[Barrex]

I believe that replied adequately to your last similar post. There are plenty of background activities going on that you don't know about. Some are going on today in fact.

But don't let that stop you.

For example: "Maybe you should contact competitionof owners of machines ..."

That would be a good job for you. We will anxiously wait for your report.

I am from and in Croatia and since you know it you know that I can not do that... But dont let that stop you. You are mentioning "activities" and whenever someone asks you for any evidence you go on attacking (example: posting pictures of animals "hugging" and saying it is a person who you dont agree with and more./ Just like you did with that video of "me") people. From so many activities not a word. If you did them you did a poor job because there is no result.

It's an exercise in documentation. The people that sell the machines profit from the work of the machines. Contacting the machine sellers will be of little use. An open source vote counter with transparency would be easy, and you'd have no problem finding volunteers for such an undertaking. Look at what is already accomplished with open source, and we are only talking about counting machines here. It's hardly difficult.

They want take SCYTL-s place in the market. SCYTL (company that earns millions of dollars from elections) must have competition and that competition would be extremely interested in taking down SCYTL (and the rest of my previous post). It was mentioned before (long long time ago) that people here simply dont have resources to take it on next level. SCYTL competitors have it.

Is that you?

No.Since we are obviously not on friendly terms and "tone" of your posts is hostile I guess that is an insult.?!(crazy guy trying to be funny making things up) If so: fuck you....If not nothing... Are you complete asshole? Rethorical question dont answer.

I actually thought (and still think) that contacting competition is really good idea that would get you out of your "infinite loop"(unproductive loop).(An infinite loop (also known as an endless loop or unproductive loop) is a sequence of instructions in a computer program which loops endlessly, either due to the loop having no terminating condition, having one that can never be met, or one that causes the loop to start over.) For those of you who actually care more about resolving this than getting power trip Ill repeat:

and I promise you this is my last post in this thread so dont bother responding.

Good luck (sincerely).

 

[RonRules]

Let me briefly why planning, especially detailed planning is the EXACT wrong thing to do when investigating and researching. That's why government research usually FAILS. They spend an inordinate of time amount planning and everyone on that project cannot deviate from that plan and never get anything done.

In software development the corresponding example is the Waterfall Software Development process that the government insists government contractors use. In the commercial world, developers use various flavors of the Agile process. That's why commercial software gets written 10X quicker (and better) than government software.

Instead of a detailed plan, it is MUCH more important to remain agile, nimble, alert and ready to change the direction of the research at a moment's notice. If you have a detailed plan, and stick to it, most likely you will FAIL at this sort of thing.

We are trying to find alleged fraud. We don't know where the fraud is. That's why we must remain agile. I took on the job of accumulating data, among other things. This large database is useful in detecting patterns. Others have done a tremendous job at a deep dive analysis in Alabama for example. They have, in my opinion proven that fraud has occurred. Others need to follow up and file papers such as a Grand Jury request for investigation. Others have written very useful tools like the Program4Liberty Java program that I use all the time. All that is useful work.

Yesterday, I ordered from Riverside county the complete file directory and Windows log of their central tabulator. (It's $35.00 and I recommend you also ask for a copy from your county). Riverside uses a WinEDS central tabulator. If your county uses something else, please ask for a detailed directory list (with all time stamps file attributes).

This data could totally change the direction of our investigation and that's why we need to remain agile, nimble and alert. If anomalies are found, I'll stop making charts and work on that instead. BTW, I'm not a computer forensics expert. If anyone here is, please offer your service.

Next I will post an example of why we need to remain agile, nimble and alert.

 

[RonRules]

Here's an example of agility instead of following a detailed plan.

"octojofo" posted the Clint Curtis testimony video. I had seen it before but it was good to listen to it again. There is no better smoking gun, yet most people are complacent.

Clint on the other hand DID something about it. Since that video, he became a lawyer and ran for office twice. He moved to Congressional District 4 in California.

Instead of doing more charts this morning, I researched Clint some more. Here's an interview with Clint on the excellet Brad Blog:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8021#more-8021

Here's what caught my eye:
"Jim Cirile: Sounds like a fair fight. How is the area for election integrity? (Referring to California Congressional District 4)

Clint Curtis: Everyone tells me it's good. A lot of it's done by mail here because people live up in the mountains. They take the mail, they check signatures, they go through the whole routine of verifying it. Everything's paper, not these nasty machines that you can't ever check on again. And of course we have Deborah Bowen as the Secretary of State, and she's done wonders as far as actually pushing integrity issues. I'm not too worried about that here. I haven't seen any indication or heard from anybody that thinks there is a problem.

Here's California CD-4:

I had done all the charts for California in 2008. 38 out of the 54 were flippers. You can see them all here:
http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/RonRules/Elections2008_Primaries_CA/

Now have a look at the counties that comprise California CD-4:

Most flat-line except for ElDorado and possibly Lassen. Does anybody want to bet that ElDorado uses voting machines? BTW they fired the Riverside County Registrar in 2010 and she's now running ElDorado elections. (neither here or there, but if an election rep is fired for incompetence, maybe they should look for another line of work)

 

[RonRules]

I just called ElDorado county and they use the Premier (AKA GEMS Diebold) Central Tabulator.

Need I say more?

Edit:
Yes, I do. Here's the up-to-date list of equipment that will be used for the June 5th elections in California:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/voting-systems/oversight/county-vsys/vot-sys-by-counties-2012-6-5.pdf

 

[RonRules]

I found two online spreadsheets for the Egyptian elections and they're different! The numbers for Cairo are quite different for the Ex Mubarrak guy.

There's only 27 data points, so it's real rough and I can't call this one:

Data Source 1:

Remember when I pointed out discrepancies in the Egyptian elections, Cario specifically?

Today, I see this video:

Egyptians Denounce Election Results in Cairo and Alexandria



Please watch the video. That's exactly what will happen in November when the general election is called and it's discovered to be fraudulent.

 

[drummergirl]

They want take SCYTL-s place in the market. SCYTL (company that earns millions of dollars from elections) must have competition and that competition would be extremely interested in taking down SCYTL (and the rest of my previous post). It was mentioned before (long long time ago) that people here simply dont have resources to take it on next level. SCYTL competitors have it.
/QUOTE]

Ummm... perhaps you missed this point. There are only 2 companies that control over 80% of the counties in the United States. They have no significant competition. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

 

[drummergirl]

Please watch the video. That's exactly what will happen in November when the general election is called and it's discovered to be fraudulent.

And that is my nightmare. 224 years of peaceful presidential changes thrown on the trash heap of history.

 

[octojofo]

That's exactly what will happen in November when the general election is called and it's discovered to be fraudulent.

It seems to me nothing of the sort will happen because if this flipping is occurring, there does not seem to be any way of proving it. I think everyone's work over the last 3 months is really amazing but it remains inconclusive. Worse, by the time anything might eventually be proved, it will be too late- the voting will be historic. We've already seen how a case for fraud, and therefore ineligibility, has fallen on deaf ears once a president has been elected- nothing is going to happen. Charting every election around the world since the history of elections still will prove nothing. It's all just a theory and more charting does not seem to be helping.

We need a way of determining if in fact this is occurring. Further charts are not helping with this effort (or at best, quite minimally!) I can see only one possible way. We must have accurate results to weigh these up against. Either the affidavit thing or exit polls seem to be the only way. Do we just not have any exit polls from any of these elections? I haven't been able to find any from 2012 anywhere. Someone has to be conducting them, no? There was much talk on the DailyPaul about getting volunteers to exit poll in Texas and California and how important this could be. But checking after, that thread reports that no one actually got it together in Texas to do this at all!

Is it too late to get some teams together (I would think a minimum of three would be essential) to exit-poll at polling stations in precincts that you have seen flipping in California? I know there is only a few days but it seems this is the only way to prove any of this is going on.

I am not at all wealthy, (quite the opposite) but if I weren't driving 20 hours to stream the Illinois convention on weds. I would seriously consider flying somewhere in Cali. to do just that. (it's actually too late even to drive from here) But frankly, it is not a job that can be done alone. Some polls have multiple entranceways/exits and people realistically need breaks too. Some are just logistically impossible for a variety of reasons, but I really can't see any other way of proving flipping without this.

Does anyone have any suggestions or input along these lines? RonRules is from CA, anyone else? Can you organize and hit even one polling place in this election in this little time? It certainly seems to me this would be a better use of time than continuing to make charts.

And please, this is not to take away from your time and incredible effort on this. I know many of you have spent crazy amounts already on this! But Hell, I've spent more time reading all these posts than the hours exit-polling could ever take! Maybe people like me who are less capable and only read these postings, could now pick up some clipboards, put on a shirt and tie, and stand with a few friends at some polling places this Tuesday!

Does anyone see any other solution toward proof?

 

[RonRules]

I think everyone's work over the last 3 months is really amazing but it remains inconclusive.

Hey look, if you're da32130 or DSW, I guarantee you, I will ruthlessly ridicule you.

The charts alone PROVE there is fraud. We just don't know who did it.

BTW, where is the evidence that you were going to gather from NH?

 

[octojofo]

Hey look, if you're da32130 or DSW, I guarantee you, I will ruthlessly ridicule you.

You really do have a bad habit of jumping to the defensive quite easily I see! I fear with this attitude, you probably alienate quite a few from genuinely trying to help and that's a shame. I really have to say I take umbrage at you accusing me of being a troll, when I have worked so hard on this campaign for so long and at such great personal expense both in time and money, but I don't want to get baited into a discussion about that.

I will just say, I am not bringing anything up for the sake of undermining you, I honestly want to see this thing proved to the rest of the world! NOT just to people like you and ME, who seem to agree that this is plainly, logically impossible without fraud, but you must realize, that without some overwhelming, damning evidence, that is never going to happen.

The charts alone PROVE there is fraud. We just don't know who did it.

Again, the charts alone prove there is fraud to SOME of us! I agree. But I maintain that if this was proof enough that something would already be being done about it! Why hasn't this been pushed into in a court of law? Where are the subpoenas? Why aren't the machines being confiscated as evidence and their software being analyzed? What is the hold-up? Why is this information just sitting here on this one forum and nowhere else? WHAT HASN'T THIS GONE VIRAL AMONG ALL PAUL SUPPORTERS? I seriously think the whole world should be talking about THIS and nothing else! But they are not! WHY? It seems the hold-up is absolute proof! Which I think Exit polls could BE!

BTW, where is the evidence that you were going to gather from NH?

I am sorry that I haven't finished this yet. I told you I was not proficient in all of this and I had some very out-of-date experience in Excel as my only crutch. I have the watchthevote2012 results and I told you that they were incomplete so I am actually adding the results that I could find at the nh.gov site and I want to graph all the hand-counted precincts to hopefully show there is no flipping evidenced.

Frankly that is why I was looking for all the data and charts - even though you said it was all in Excel and that was a poor choice, I was hoping to use it as a template for how to output these charts, because frankly I am having trouble. Perhaps I am better off giving you the data and having you output it? I am more than happy to.

Actually, you said you were part of the FaceBook WatchtheVote2012 group so you should have access already. My biggest fear is that there would be flipping still evident (as Liberty1789's charts seemed to suggest) since I feel that would hurt this effort immensely, since it would be inexplicable under that premise. On the other hand, I feel that charting the hand-counts and finding flat lines would go a LONG way toward proving just the opposite -- the flipping by machines!

I work long hours on the weekend and have not had time to get this done and I apologize that I am not hand typing all these figures in right now instead of answering your baseless accusations!

Seriously, if you want any of the WTV2012 data for any reason, please ask and I will PM you the links.

And trust me, I am on your side -- and more importantly, on Ron Paul's side.

 

[RonRules]

Seriously, if you want any of the WTV2012 data for any reason, please ask and I will PM you the links.

And trust me, I am on your side -- and more importantly, on Ron Paul's side.

Yes, please PM me the links to the WTV2012 data. If I'm a little testy it's because thousands of posts have been wasted discussing this topic with trolls. I see a repeat of incorrect claims, with no proof wasting everybody's time and causing doubt. That's why people are waking away.

There's only a handful of productive people in this thread and several were clearly on a mission to discredit the project.

If you want to participate, post your data, calculations, charts, letters to election officials, subpoenas, court filings, etc.

BTW, yesterday I was notified to meet with University of Riverside professors again. With the session over, they now have more time to work on this. Please do the same with your local university.

 

[hosef]

Hi, everyone.

Again, sorry it is taking me a long time to write a program in my free time.

The primary election early voting has started here in Nevada. And I have found out that Clark County(if not the rest of the state) uses the Sequoia Edge voting system. I will try to find out more about our states equipment(software versions, central tabulator, service schedule, the usual) and will also make charts for the races where liberty minded people are running.

@RonRules The output from the Java program has a file called "votes2012-CorrelationCoefficientsAndStdDevs.csv". What do the numbers in that file represent, and could you post links to a video telling me how to calculate those numbers, or if those are not really important to what we are doing then I might just leave out that function. Also, I think all I have left to do is make R spit out pretty looking charts.
On a related note I was thinking about what you said earlier about an interface between Drupal and R. I was wondering about a website were you could upload .csv files for state and county races and then the website would pass them into R to get graphs and format the data for display on the website. That would save you time and would give us a place where we could send academic people who are interested in our research. We could also have the website generate a total of the probability of Mitt's nation wide totals for people who aren't mathematically inclined enough to understand what an astronomically high number actually represents, something like "The probability of Mitt Romney's nationwide vote total being legitimate is less than the probability of the same life form randomly forming on two different planets simultaneously." or whatever it actually compares to.

@octojofo, Unfortunately, there is fraud in hand counted races. Here in Nevada the caucus was hand tabulated at every level, all the way up to the state total, and yet the charts made by Liberty1789 and RonRules have shown the same steady climb for Romney, the same line smoothing, the same EVERYTHING as electronically tabulated races. In Clark the county total was tabulated in the presence of several media people and lawyers. However, after the vote was counted and everyone left, the party officials said there was a mess-up and they need to recount. It was that second count were no media or representatives of any of the campaigns watched that they announced as the official results. At the time of the caucus the secretary of the Clark County Executive board was the only position we held on the E-Board. She said that buses from UT and CA showed up at the county GOP HQ full of Romney supporters to help with the counting. Unfortunately there was no way for the secretary to make sure that there was no fraud because of how many people there were.

 

[RonRules]

She said that buses from UT and CA showed up at the county GOP HQ full of Romney supporters to help with the counting. Unfortunately there was no way for the secretary to make sure that there was no fraud because of how many people there were.

Thank you very much for your update. These last two lines absolutely freak me out.

 

[RonRules]

I had not done any work on Neveada, but I saved some of the charts Liberty1789 had made. They are absolutely stunning (and not in a good way):

This one, I remember that he thought it was anomalous but could not precisely explain it:

 

[RonRules]

The New York data (official) is finally out, but at the State and CD level only. They had promised me precinct level but it's not on their website. If you can get it, please inform me.

The NY chart is pretty weird. It's almost like they could not do the vote flipping in a few counties. If you live in NY, try to find out what may have happened in the high Romney % and the low Romney % counties. What kind of central tabulator were they using, if any. They may have had better procedures to prevent virus infections. Ask all the questions you can, because something fishy was happening, but not everywhere.

Here's the cumulative chart:

Here's the straight precinct vote tally chart:

 

[drummergirl]

You really do have a bad habit of jumping to the defensive quite easily I see! I fear with this attitude, you probably alienate quite a few from genuinely trying to help and that's a shame. I really have to say I take umbrage at you accusing me of being a troll, when I have worked so hard on this campaign for so long and at such great personal expense both in time and money, but I don't want to get baited into a discussion about that.

Please understand that while you may have taken time to read through these threads, there have been well over a thousand posts deleted by the moderators which you did not have to read or respond to on the days when those events happened. So please forgive RonRules if he is a little skeptical; everyone here has been burned at least once by someone initially offering to help who then played kinda dumb and successfully turned the conversation in circles for days or weeks.

I will just say, I am not bringing anything up for the sake of undermining you, I honestly want to see this thing proved to the rest of the world! NOT just to people like you and ME, who seem to agree that this is plainly, logically impossible without fraud, but you must realize, that without some overwhelming, damning evidence, that is never going to happen.

The bottom line is that the math is conclusive. As I recall there were several counties in South Carolina where I calculated the odds of the Romney surge in each of the counties were the same as the odds of my buying 1 quick pick lottery ticket per week and winning the Texas state lottery 5 weeks in a row. And this has happened now in every state primary conducted to date (except Puerto Rico) where we have data. I'd venture a guess that the odds of this being random are about the same as the odds of a catastrophic meteor hitting the earth in the next 10 minutes.

All that remains is WHO did it and EXACTLY HOW. And we have some ideas there too.

At this point we lack a lawyer who understands math (does such a creature even exist?), a computer forensics expert, and a grand jury.

EDIT: I would like to add that the number one obstacle we have with our fellow Ron Paul supporters is that they are in deep denial about this problem. One doesn't have to ponder the implications for long before nausea and vomiting set in. Most people literally do not have the stomach for this. "It just can't be true, so say it ain't so Joe, please for God's sake say it ain't so!" And so in the face of all the evidence, the emotional response takes over and says, this isn't happening. Ophelia didn't fare so well in the face of reality either.

 

[RonRules]

Here's more info about NY:

Romney did worse in Erie county and best in Weschester, Suffolk, Nassau counties. The State of NY is widely different from West to East. I've lived in Suffolk, Nassau and those are heavy Establishment counties.

Here's a different way to look at the same data. The counties are on the X-Axis in increasing size. Note that wherever Romney does well Paul does poorly. The difference is so stark that even the best vote flipping algorithm can't make a straight line out of it. That's my explanation. Chime in if you feel differently.

 

[drummergirl]

Oh man, I can hardly wait to see the precinct level data.

On a lighter note, do you think we might find one of these lurking around the central tabulators?

 

[Carson]

Yesterday 09:33 AM #885
RonRules


I haven't been watching but your Egyptian video makes a great sound track for the thread.

I sort of figure if any of us makes any noise about the election what-so-ever it will be more in the line of a Baa Baa Baa


I still can't get over the only place I am hearing about any election fraud is on the Ron Paul Liberty Forest message board. Well here and on FOX with Ben Swann ...

 

[Carson]

Oh man, I can hardly wait to see the precinct level data.

On a lighter note, do you think we might find one of these lurking around the central tabulators?

Working it with it's tail while hissing a greeting at us?