The case for the occurence of algorithmic vote flipping

What if the explanation was not that Romney or whomever is benefitting does better in larger precincts, but rather that Ron Paul and non-mainstream candidates generally do better in small precincts? My idea would be that in a small precinct (and these are small in turnout, remember), there are only a few politically active people. One would expect that these people are generally more active and research more about their candidate choice, and are generally more die-hard as well. Also, these people would probably tell their friends and family to vote, and to vote for their candidate, when normally they otherwise would have not bothered like the rest of the precinct. This would have a dramatic effect in a small turnout precinct. One key idea here is that in a precinct with low voter turnout, it is generally because of the precinct geographical size and/or voter apathy/republican nomination apathy.

I support ANY analysis that anybody wants to do, but once solidly disproved, I also expect people to move on.

This particular project is a big project to do statewide, but if only a couple of counties are picked, which exhibit strong flipping, then the job is not too big. Anybody want to help here?

Many counties have Geographical Information Systems (GIS) and they include precinct maps. Here are a couple of examples:
In PA:
http://www.ccpa.net/index.aspx?NID=3518
Specific map showing a few precincts from Cumberland county

Are you curious as to why Ron Paul won Detroit? Maybe this will tell you
http://www.detroitmi.gov/DepartmentsandAgencies/InformationTechnologyServices/GISMaps.aspx

This company makes precinct map software. Find out where there software is used:
http://www.caliper.com/Precinct/Default.htm

Here's an example of the Caliper Magnitude program being used in Kansas:
http://www.caliper.com/PDFs/Election GIS Case Study.pdf
 
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More 2011 Ontario Canada charts.

Some have slight slopes and I'd like to know why.

14uxhqa.png


8yi0t3.png
 
More 2011 Ontario Canada charts.

Some have slight slopes and I'd like to know why.

14uxhqa.png


8yi0t3.png

Some slight slopes here and there are to be expected; just looking you can't say for sure, but if I were in Vegas, I'd bet those slopes are within the 99.9% confidence interval for the graph.
 
in case people wanted to track what I'm doing, I've believe I've just dismissed the argument that the upwards trend is caused by a trend in republican to democrat populations in the precincts. I modified my program (not uploaded yet) to take democratic votes from precincts, and then calculate the relative vote totals in a precinct for democrats vs republicans, and plot that in the graph as well as output those numbers. In Georgia and Ohio, states whose upwards trend is distinct in 2012, there is little relation to the republican - democrat percentage.

The assertion that there are factors skewing the results both requires and is shown by the discounting of all plausible demographic factors. If we are to demand more transparency, we will need to comprehensively discount each possible demographic factor.
 
The assertion that there are factors skewing the results both requires and is shown by the discounting of all plausible demographic factors. If we are to demand more transparency, we will need to comprehensively discount each possible demographic factor.

Is analyzing every possible demographic factor feasible? For that matter, is it even reasonable to think that it's possible to come up with an exhaustive list of the possible factors to analyze?

Here are a few that have come to mind recently. After someone posted a link to a Romney campaign guy bragging about the effectiveness of their GOTV efforts, I did a little searching for more details. Starting in 2007, the Romney campaign claims to have adopted radical new campaign tools based on data mining large data sets about demographics, voting records, etc., working with a company called Targetpoint Consulting. What if they're targeting precinct captains for the precincts where they predict they can get the biggest bang for the buck, i.e., big turnout? Or what if they identify voters to phone based on both geographic (precinct) data and demographic data. What if predicted precinct turnout is one of the variables that Targetpoint uses to skew the spending of campaign money? There are lots of ways that a correlation could be introduced, but because it's a campaign strategy secret it's hard to prove or disprove the degree to which this happens.

Other campaign strategies may introduce correlations as well. Suppose that rather than using data mining to target specific precincts, the Santorum and Paul campaigns have adopted more of a "make sure we reach every corner" approach. Precincts that Romney ignored could then be precincts that other campaigns targeted, tending to produce an inverse effect.

Don't forget that we know that ordering the precincts by turnout can result in geographical clustering, another factor that could introduce correlations. I only know that happened for sure in the Va Beach data, but has anyone looked at other precincts to see if there are geographical correlations with the alleged "post-divide" precincts? In Va Beach, for example, if Romney targeted that northeast neighborhood then because of the geographical clustering, he targeted 60% of the "post-divide" precincts. If he targeted a second neighborhood to the southwest of that he'd have covered an even higher percentage of those precincts, without necessarily even having used a precinct-oriented strategy at all. And those two areas might already be within Romney's demographic sweet spot, making them more likely to be pro-Romney anyway and more likely gotv targets selected by data mining.

(Looking at that map, I wonder if what they did was divide the map into several large areas, then divide each area to have roughly equal voter population within that area. Or something along those lines that tends to make precincts of similar size within a small region. If that's a common way to do it, then this kind of geographic correlation could be found elsewhere.)

Here's another one. Someone over on dp was arguing that they could prove the Super Brochure was effective by looking at the percent saturation within a precinct and the pecent vote for Ron Paul. I think they were looking at South Carolina there, but they said they had plenty of other data to show this happening in other areas. I'm not a big fan of the SB, so I haven't paid a lot of attention to it, but from the web site it looks like you "buy" a precinct, and the more "super voters" (not sure what that is) there are the more it costs. So I'm guessing that the degree of SB saturation correlates pretty well with precinct size. If that's true, then here's another variable that introduces a correlation with precinct size, one favoring Ron Paul (if you believe the SB is effective) in the smaller precincts that have higher saturation.

I'm *not* arguing that SB saturation explains the graphs. If I'm right about SB saturation being inversely correlated with precinct size, then I think the known correlation between precinct size and %vote for Romney makes this a weak argument for the effectiveness of the Super Brochure, but maybe an SB fan would argue that not buying enough SB mailings to blanket the largest precincts is the reason that Romney tended to take those precincts away from Ron Paul. Either way it's another example of linkage between precinct size and campaign focus.

And ruling out demographic effects one at a time isn't sufficient. It could be the combination of Romney using data mining to get bang for the buck from his mailing and phone and gotv efforts, plus some degree of geographic clustering of precincts with similar sizes, plus Paul and/or Santorum doing the opposite and trying to have some presence in every little corner of a state; and all of that is before we start to consider how geographic clustering plus demographic factors could skew results. These are, by the way, kinds of effects that could explain Iowa, with its public manual counting reported in real-time, just as easily as a machine-counted state.

And then of course are the factors that nobody has thought of yet that could introduce correlation. Those are even harder to rule out.
 
Reposting a new post from Rev 9 from another thread, since I don't want to bump that one, but want others to read it.:

It looks to me like they were Lerp-ing the totals as I get the same smooth curve when applying a Lerp from and to any positional data on the X,Y or Z axis. This will not give a straight flip but depending on the factor smoothly interpolate at varying speeds/curves towards he desired value and then ease off when getting close to the value and never quite reaching it. I wonder if the algorithm could be reverse engineered.

Rev9
 
Reposting a new post from Rev 9 from another thread, since I don't want to bump that one, but want others to read it.:

I had to lookup "Lerping". It's Linear Interpolation.

So now do we have Truthers, Birthers, Flippers AND Lerpers?
 
What if they're targeting precinct captains for the precincts where they predict they can get the biggest bang for the buck, i.e., big turnout? Or what if they identify voters to phone based on both geographic (precinct) data and demographic data. What if predicted precinct turnout is one of the variables that Targetpoint uses to skew the spending of campaign money? There are lots of ways that a correlation could be introduced, but because it's a campaign strategy secret it's hard to prove or disprove the degree to which this happens.

That would seem like a real ODD way to spend election money. A vote is a vote, and I have shown that "rebulicanness" has near zero correlation with precinct size. Why spend money that way?
1) First, I don't believe that they can target votes so precisely as to linearly improve vote for Romney as a function of precinct size to a 99% correlation.
2) Romney does a lot of TV ads, and these are spread statewide, pretty much equally. They may even affect rural areas even more, because there is less internet usage in rural areas. TV is very effective and would distort the a nice linear relationship as a function of precinct size.

It would make sense for a campaign to target Republican areas. That's good for campaign funding and GOTV and those demographics are available. Just look at the Republican/Democrat % registration per precinct and see if Romney (or any other) has made better use of that variable to fund their campaign.

So make a chart (scatter point) as follows:
X-Axis Republican/Democrat voter registration %;
Y-Axis Romney, Gingrich, Paul, Santorum % of vote

If you get a line that exceeds 99% correlation, I will give you a cookie.

I'm busy making another analysis right now, but I recommend checking that out. Ohio has a good store of statistics available. Go to the particular county, for example Cayuhoga county.
 
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A vote is a vote, and I have shown that "rebulicanness" has near zero correlation with precinct size.

What does "republicanness" have to do with spending in the primaries? In the primaries the universe that matters is the universe of potential voters. In a closed primary that's the Republicans. It doesn't make sense to focus on areas that have a high % of registered Republicans in the primaries, because the Democrats are irrelevant. It makes sense to focus on the areas that will have the highest turnout in the GOP primary relative to GOP turnout in other areas. I.e., the precincts that end up on the right hand side of the graphs.

In any case, that's not the argument. There's an observed correlation between precinct size and %vote for Romney. There are a variety of factors that correlate with precinct size, especially if the geographical clustering by precinct size seen in Va Beach City is common elsewhere. The question is how you rule out those correlations and their compounding effects. It's not just demographics, because other things correlate with precinct turnout. And it's not just a question of whether any one demographic factor can explain the correlation, either.

Just to reiterate, in VBC if Romney focused any kind of spending on just two localized geographic areas, one in the northeast corner and one just southwest of there, then he would have been focusing on well over 60% of the "post-divide" precincts. And it's not that he would have been doing any analysis in terms of precincts, necessarily. It's just a consequence of the way the largest precincts are geographically clustered. If those two neighborhoods were already tending pro-Romney, and he spent heavily to go door-to-door or whatever in those two neighborhoods, then the impact would be seen on the graph starting at the 240 mark, when you hit the first of the precincts in that northeastern neighborhood cluster.

Again, I'm not saying that's the explanation. But when you start talking about ruling out demographics that's an example of the kind of thing you'd have to find a way to rule out.
 
What does "republicanness" have to do with spending in the primaries? In the primaries the universe that matters is the universe of potential voters.

It does matter, if you want to spend money efficiently.

Your claim: Romney's marketing was finely tuned as function of Cumulative Precinct Vote Tally. I don't believe they can tune any marketing campaign anywhere that precisely and besides, it's not a WISE way to spend money that way. There is no correlation and they'd be wasting 1/2 the money.

The best bang for the buck in a campaign is to spend money on the people that are most likely to be on your side. That's why Ron Paul often speaks at colleges. (BTW, if you want to meet me, I'll be at UCLA's rally tomorrow night).

Romney's game, anybody's game for that matter, is to target likely 1) Republicans 2) Republicans that may vote for Romney.

Because Republicanness as a function of precinct size totally fails the correlation test, it's a non-starter approach.

However, even with that, Gingrich has a totally different effect, dropping as a function of increasing cumulative vote tally. Same for Paul, Santorum, Perry, Bachman and Huntsman in 2012.

You can't explain ALL the other candidates losses, in all counties and all states voted thus far, unless you seriously consider vote flipping. Start making charts to prove your point. Pull up Excel and start charting.

The simplest explanation, the one that makes all these pieces of evidence fall into place, like the pins on a lock, is vote flipping.

This explanation is also easy to accomplish if you accept the theory of a virus infecting the central tabulator. Only totals are manually checked from the central tabulator back to the individual precinct. THAT's why the scam has worked until now. That's the explanation that works, to 99.3%.
 
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Your claim: Romney's marketing was finely tuned as function of Cumulative Precinct Vote Tally. I don't believe they can tune any marketing campaign anywhere that precisely and besides, it's not a WISE way to spend money that way. There is no correlation and they'd be wasting 1/2 the money.

That's not the claim. I was just pointing out that you've demonstrated a correlation between precinct turnout and %vote for Romney, and there are a variety of factors that also correlate with precinct size, making it difficult to rule out non-fraud explanations simply by looking at demographic data. It was in specifically in response to what program4liberty was describing.

And I'm still not getting why you think that spending more in the precincts that deliver more votes in the primary isn't a good idea. A region that has 70% Republicans, but a voting population of 50, is not as good an investment *especially in the GOP primary* as an area that has 30% Republican registration and a voting population of 1000. Or more simply, the precincts that deliver the most GOP voters no matter what percentage of the population they are. Or in other words, the precincts on the right hand side of the graph, because of the way the graph has been constructed.

Where are we disagreeing on that?


The simplest explanation, the one that makes all these pieces of evidence fall into place, like the pins on a lock, is vote flipping.

This explanation is also easy to accomplish if you accept the theory of a virus infecting the central tabulator. Only totals are manually checked from the central tabulator back to the individual precinct. THAT's why the scam has worked until now. That's the explanation that works, to 99.3%.

And what about Iowa?
 
I was just pointing out that you've demonstrated a correlation between precinct turnout and %vote for Romney, and there are a variety of factors that also correlate with precinct size, making it difficult to rule out non-fraud explanations simply by looking at demographic data.

Not exactly, because at this point I need to be exact.

The correlation between increasing precinct vote turnout and %vote for Romney is pretty bad, almost imperceptible. Lets use the example of Iowa since you bring it up.
(Note that this relationship is perceptible in cases like VA where Richmond was such an extreme case that you could easily see it.)

Where's the correlation, where's the crime you may ask?
35jb1vl.png


Then, you place the key in the lock and turn the key. That key is Cumulative Precinct Vote Tally and it fits perfectly.
Crime exposed:
8vw27c.png


And I'm still not getting why you think that spending more in the precincts that deliver more votes in the primary isn't a good idea. A region that has 70% Republicans, but a voting population of 50, is not as good an investment *especially in the GOP primary* as an area that has 30% Republican registration and a voting population of 1000.

Spending more on GOP rich areas is fine, it's a good strategy, but you won't do it EFFICIENTLY if your selection criteria is precinct size and Romney was certainly donin't wrong if you just look at the first chart above.

It's better in the case of Romney to find: 1) Mormons 2) Bankers 3) Young guys in white shirts riding bicycles.
 
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Not exactly, because at this point I need to be exact.

The correlation between increasing precinct vote turnout and %vote for Romney is pretty bad, almost imperceptible. Lets use the example of Iowa since you bring it up.
(Note that this relationship is perceptible in cases like VA where Richmond was such an extreme case that you could easily see it.)

Where's the correlation, where's the crime you may ask?
35jb1vl.png


Then, you place the key in the lock and turn the key. That key is Cumulative Precinct Vote Tally and it fits perfectly.
Crime exposed:
8vw27c.png




Spending more on GOP rich areas is fine, it's a good strategy, but you won't do it EFFICIENTLY if your selection criteria is precinct size and Romney was certainly donin't wrong if you just look at the first chart above.

It's better in the case of Romney to find: 1) Mormons 2) Bankers 3) Young guys in white shirts riding bicycles.

The first graph sure looks like it has a strong correlation for Romney. The second graph smooths the data, making that correlation more obvious, but correlation doesn't mean smoothness. The reason the second graph keeps climbing for Romney *is* the correlation. It keeps climbing because as you go to the right Romney has, overall, a higher and higher percentage of the vote on average, which is to say, the reason it keeps climbing is that there's a positive correlation between precinct size and %vote for Romney.

The point of bringing up Iowa was that you said the hypothesis that worked so well was a virus at the central tabulating computer. But in Iowa the votes were manually counted in public *and reported in real time* independently of the central tabulation. Also reported by Ron Paul supporters independently as well in some cases. So how does that fit the virus hypothesis?

Again, I never said the selection criteria would be precinct size (used here to meaning number of votes cast, to be precise), and it certainly would not be that alone. For localized gotv efforts and the like, Romney is going to want to go to areas where he can find the most votes for the fewest bucks. That doesn't mean using precinct size as the criterion, just correlation with precinct size. It's not going to correlate as well, if at all, with %GOP registration because that's going to be very high in some areas that don't have enough votes to be worth bothering with.

In the Va Beach City case, for example, if he targeted that northeastern area alone *for whatever reason his data mining consultants might have come up with* then he would have focused on *only* the post-240 precincts and he would have hit 60% of the post-240 precincts. That could be the case even if the data mining used to target that area didn't look at precinct size at all. It's just because the way you've ordered the precincts, those 14 or however many there were are clustered both geographically and in your precinct order, and you hit the first of them at 240.
 
Generally speaking, it's very difficult to target specific areas of a city. All tv ads will generally be seen by the entire city. All newspaper ads. All local newpaper ads. All radio ads. Any 'visit' will have people coming not just from anywhere in the city, but from outside the city.

How exactly do you propose Romney's people not only just targeted the NE corner of a city, but did this level of targeting for every city in the country?

Are you talking pure phonebanking ninja skills being that effective? That's some phenomenal return on investment for phonebanking - for the first time in history, skewing results completely out of whack for targeted precincts.
 
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The point of bringing up Iowa was that you said the hypothesis that worked so well was a virus at the central tabulating computer. But in Iowa the votes were manually counted in public *and reported in real time* independently of the central tabulation.

Sure people reported counts they saw in their own precincts. Announcing the count won't do much if you don't follow up the next day to confirm the individual candidate vote totals on the state/county website.

When that was done like in Maine, it did NOT match.

I have seen very few instances where the grass-roots reported counts (not the totals, but individuals) in each precincts were clearly compared side-by-side with the state tabulated results. That's work that the grass roots can do. Pick Virginia, that one is easy and call the precinct directors and ask them for their counts and compare with what the state published.

I just realized that I said a few days ago that I was not going to reply to you unless you ALSO did the math and put charts to make your case. Real charts, with real numbers, from real elections.
 
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Generally speaking, it's very difficult to target specific areas of a city. All tv ads will generally be seen by the entire city. All newspaper ads. All local newpaper ads. All radio ads. Any 'visit' will have people coming not just from anywhere in the city, but from outside the city.

How exactly do you propose Romney's people not only just targeted the NE corner of a city, but did this level of targeting for every city in the country?

Are you talking pure phonebanking ninja skills being that effective? That's some phenomenal return on investment for phonebanking - for the first time in history, skewing results completely out of whack for targeted precincts.

Voter registration tables. Billboards. Door-to-door precinct walking. Targeted mailings. As for the ninja skills of Targetpoint Consulting, they sure seem to be impressed with themselves. I haven't found much in the way about specifics for what they've done for Romney in 2008 and 2012, but here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35062-2004Dec29?language=printer
is an older article, talking about some things they did for Bush-Cheney. Data mining "enabled those running direct mail, precinct walking and phone bank programs to target each voter with a tailored message."

Again (and probably not for the last time) I'm not saying this "debunks" anything. I was responding to program4liberty's comment about what he was planning to do, and the point is that if you want to rule out non-fraud explanations it's not sufficient just to look at demographic data, and certainly not sufficient to look at factors one at a time. There are many ways that results can correlate with precinct size. The Super Brochure mailings for Ron Paul, for example, look like they may have blanketed smaller precincts to a much greater degree than larger ones, because of the way the web site works. It's hard to rule out every effect that could introduce a correlation with precinct size. So the point is: an argument based on analyzing demographic data won't be conclusive. That's all.
 
Thank you dsw, RonRules, and affa for the information. Yes, dsw you have a point that it would be very difficult indeed, but I cannot think of a better way to come up with a conclusive argument.

As I would hope we all are, I want to find the truth. Part of doing this is investigating whatever possible arguments or counter examples seem most likely to negate one case, or confirm another. For this reason, I will begin looking at Iowa in depth now as it is very compelling (I wasn't aware of its exact voting methods for the primaries). It shows a fair positive trend for Romney and a negative trend for Paul, indicative of what we're seeing elsewhere, yet was done in public and by hand. Indeed, if its votes can be verified with independent reports (perhaps a more possible task to finish to completion than the anti-demographic one) then that would confirm the subtle-ish workings of demographics in producing the trend we see. If that's the truth, that's what I'd like to find out (I have a RepRap machine I want to get started on).
 
Thank you dsw, RonRules, and affa for the information. Yes, dsw you have a point that it would be very difficult indeed, but I cannot think of a better way to come up with a conclusive argument.

As I would hope we all are, I want to find the truth. Part of doing this is investigating whatever possible arguments or counter examples seem most likely to negate one case, or confirm another. For this reason, I will begin looking at Iowa in depth now as it is very compelling (I wasn't aware of its exact voting methods for the primaries). It shows a fair positive trend for Romney and a negative trend for Paul, indicative of what we're seeing elsewhere, yet was done in public and by hand. Indeed, if its votes can be verified with independent reports (perhaps a more possible task to finish to completion than the anti-demographic one) then that would confirm the subtle-ish workings of demographics in producing the trend we see. If that's the truth, that's what I'd like to find out (I have a RepRap machine I want to get started on).

Best of luck to you.
 
Thank you dsw, RonRules, and affa for the information. Yes, dsw you have a point that it would be very difficult indeed, but I cannot think of a better way to come up with a conclusive argument.

As I would hope we all are, I want to find the truth. Part of doing this is investigating whatever possible arguments or counter examples seem most likely to negate one case, or confirm another. For this reason, I will begin looking at Iowa in depth now as it is very compelling (I wasn't aware of its exact voting methods for the primaries). It shows a fair positive trend for Romney and a negative trend for Paul, indicative of what we're seeing elsewhere, yet was done in public and by hand. Indeed, if its votes can be verified with independent reports (perhaps a more possible task to finish to completion than the anti-demographic one) then that would confirm the subtle-ish workings of demographics in producing the trend we see. If that's the truth, that's what I'd like to find out (I have a RepRap machine I want to get started on).

Nevada might be an interesting one to look at. The results were reported in real-time via twitter:
https://dev.twitter.com/docs/special-events/nvvotecount-tweet-format
So you could not only see what the individual precincts were reporting, you could look at the timeline of when each result was reported.

Note that the precinct number isn't unique, you need the county number and precinct number for a unique identifier. One "absolute proof of fraud" on dp made the mistake of only looking at the precinct number and assuming it was unique. Also note that there were "corrected" vote results reported in some cases, so perhaps there's something potentially interesting to find in that as well.
 
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