The case for and against Jesse Benton's professional campaign involvement

Why are you allowed to say this but the rest of us are not?

You have been asked to prove that Tom Woods threw a public fit in 2011 and have yet to do so. We're supposed to take your word for it.

Yet when someone on the other side of this disagreement posts an opposing opinion on how things went down you ask for "what tantrum" as if you deserve better proof than we do.

Put up your proof, or don't demand others do so. Someone even helped you out with one link and you insinuated that was just one part. So bring it, boy.
A better question is, why do the rest of us put up with it?

There is another option: just ignore him.

Matt isn't wrong when he says Rand can win without us. He doesn't need our votes, and he doesn't need our money. If Rand plays politics with the big boys in the manner that Romney, McCain, and the Bushes have done in the GOP before him, any money we could raise would pale in comparison to the millions that can be raised on his behalf from corporate donors and PACs. We've been told over and over that Rand isn't trying to speak to us...there aren't enough of us to win an election. So when he speaks the language that Hannity and Limbaugh listeners speak, he can pick up 10 votes to any 1 lost by his father's grassroots supporters.

The point is, the Rand Paul campaign doesn't feel the need to listen to the Ron Paul grassroots people about Jesse Benton, or anything really. But if you feel like being a state delegate and having your fingers or hip broken at your state convention, he probably won't mind. Just don't expect Matt to be impressed by anything you suggest. Matt knows you don't have the knowledge or experience to speak of such things. And as long as he "knows" this, why do we continue to think we have anything of value to suggest to him?

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A better question is, why do the rest of us put up with it?

Because some of us don't understand the power that we truly hold. If some of us ever figure that out then these little squabbles would cease in a country minute. Make no mistake about that, homegirl.

 
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What "tantrum" are you talking about? :confused: It was Tom who threw a public fit over things.

If you're not going to back this up, then stop saying it.

You can't use the, "I don't want to stir things up," line and then keep on making a baseless charge.
 
I can say from first hand experience, that the RP 2012 campaign in NH made it a point to alienate and discourage any grassroots efforts, even so far as to discourage lawn signs.

They, the "official" campaign, ignored me when I pleaded with them to pick up "Northern Pass" as a campaign issue and a Mitt Romney campaign bundler's tie to pro-NP interests.

I ran newspaper ads with my own money in NH, pointing all this out.

Those ads ran in northern NH, in areas most affected by Northern Pass and possible eminent domain takings by the state for private utility interests, a violation of the NH state constitution.

Ron Paul won Coos county, and he could have won the state.

I am convinced this was at the direction of Benton himself, as you would be hard pressed to make the case that, in the most important 2012 primary, you were not aware of issues that were improtant to NH voters.

The campaign took a dive, it did at the behest of Benton and whatever cozying up to Romney they were already engaged in.

RP could have won NH, and didn't, I'm convinced, because of Benton backdooring and Romney ass-kissing to further his own career.

I will have no part of Rand 2016 with a Jesse Benton in it.

I too contacted the campaign loudly & vocally about wanting to fill Indiana with delegates. really, it wouldn't be hard in any state. they had moneybomb donation lists. I guarantee any single person who voted for RP with their wallet would sign any paperwork necessary to become a delegate, or at least a large % would! why wouldn't a campaign manager use that? I offered to call every person on that list in my state.
 
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I too contacted the campaign loudly & vocally about wanting to fill Indiana with delegates. really, it wouldn't be hard in any state. they had moneybomb donation lists. I guarantee any single person who voted for RP with their wallet would sign any paperwork necessary to become a delegate, or at least a large + would! why wouldn't a campaign manager use that? I offered to call every person on that list in my state.

They did do that in Indiana. I remember being given some of those numbers and helping to call people.
 
Here is the transcript of the video (via cyberwarzone)
Hello Citizens of the world, We are Anonymous. Dear brothers and sisters: Now is the time to open your eyes and expose the truth!​
The United States of America has been taken over by the elite one percent. No more are the people of the United States of America the sovereign. Our governments have been bought and sold to the highest bidder. The United States representatives have no need to listen to its people because they have pledged allegiance to those with the most money and power. The United States government are stripping away the freedoms and liberties of its people and the justice system is a perversion to the bill of rights our founding fathers have fought and died for. No longer do the police protect and serve its public but rather many have turned into hired thugs. The constitution of the united states has almost literally been stripped to nothing and the United States government uses terrorism to deprive the rights and liberties of its citizens as well as people from around the world.

Anonymous now has a leak that exposes Jesse Benton, Ron Paul's campaign manager, about his sabotage of the Ron Paul's campaign during the Republican National Convention (RNC). Speculation Suggest that Jesse Benton was paid off handsomely for his services to sabotage the Ron Paul movement. While more evidence on this is to be determined there is no doubt that Jesse Benton's political career will be well rewarded for his services of betrayal, corruption and sabotage. For those who have supported Ron Paul's campaign and liberty movement we urge you to continue to fight and seek justice. This shame that has been brought to Anonymous' attention will not go un noticed.​
Remember, Remember the fifth of November election fraud, treason and Plot. I see no reason why election fraud, treason and Plot should ever be forgot.

We are anonymous.

We are Legion.

We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
..
 
By Allan Stevo May 16, 2012
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At a time like this, you either fire the leadership of a campaign or you stand behind them. The third option is to give up, but Ron Paul supporters don’t seem like the type to give up.
I’ve been in Ron Paul campaign manager Jesse Benton’s presence a total of two times. Those two times lasted a maximum of 30 seconds each. I have no personal loyalty to Jesse Benton nor animosity for him.
What I do as of late is to follow the liberty movement and write about it.

The atmosphere of the liberty movement has suddenly shifted.

Two days ago, the blogosphere called the liberty movement victorious. Some in the mainstream media were even saying the same. The delegate strategy was working and the media was just starting to discuss this unorthodox move more in depth. It was great for the liberty movement and Ron Paul’s campaign. Things looked strong and full of potential.

A Transition


A poorly written press release followed by a series of imprecisely worded statements at a press conference given by Jesse Benton was received by a press ready to cannibalize Ron Paul and coronate Mitt Romney. Things quickly started to get ugly.

The liberty movement made that possible. Only a story with traction gets heard by people. Despite the fact that the Ron Paul movement is as strong today as it was two days ago, Paul’s supporters for some reason gave this story traction. An interesting thing I’ve found out about Ron Paul supporters is that they long ago dismissed the main stream media. They long ago said to themselves, “The media lies and we don’t need it. We can become the media.”
The growth of Ron Paul’s movement over the last year and last five years aren’t because of favors owed in the mainstream media, but because, in part, of one-on-one dialogue among friends, family, and neighbors as well as the volunteer-heavy work of phoning entire states of Republican voters and simply talking to them. Ron Paul supporters carried Ron Paul’s ideas to people and disseminated those ideas.
I’d long observed that while this was a slow and arduous process; these Ron Paul supporters were clever people. While media reports can swing markets, electoral results, and even rally support for a war, it can only do so when people are listening to those media reports. Ron Paul supporters weren’t listening. They understood that a mainstream media strong enough to give them everything they wanted was a mainstream media strong enough to take everything from them. Usually impervious to media spin, it was strange to watch the effect that the stories of the past few days have had in exposing rifts in the movement that supports Ron Paul.
9/11
The September 11 attack didn’t directly destroy American liberty. The attacks directly caused tragic deaths. Some of the reactions from the American government made 9/11 worse. We begged our government to gobble up our liberties or ineffectually fought as those liberties were gobbled up. Some of us even watched idly.
Future generations will look back at us for this in strict judgment, just as contemporary Germans shamefully recall the abysmal moral compass of their forefathers in the 1930s and ‘40s.
We all know that America cannot be successfully invaded – too many guns and ornery folks for any foreigner to successfully invade. No external enemy could bring down the largely free society that America historically has had. Only by internal “attacks” can our liberties be sacrificed. No external force could eliminate those liberties.
Ron Paul’s movement is impervious in a similar way. His supporters want transparency, fairness, open systems, rule of law, and constitutional government. Because of the nature of their movement, nothing can take these people down. Their political goals welcome anyone to join the group as long as they share the same message and it’s easy to tell who’s with you or against you. Everyone is welcome into this big tent just as long as they share those similar values. The movement is decentralized and inclusive. Nothing can take these people down. Nothing except themselves.
Grassroots money and support channeled to and focused by official campaign staff in accordance with a clear strategy is bringing strong wins this year for Ron Paul and his supporters. That teamwork has been great and as far as I’m concerned will provide the liberty movement with many more victories this year. I recognize the long-shot odds, but one of those successes, I still believe, can be Ron Paul getting the Republican nomination. Ron Paul’s plan is working.
Will Ron Paul at this stage fire his campaign manager Jesse Benton?
Would you fire someone you trusted just because he made a few mistakes, especially if that meant needing to go out and finding someone better in a political environment where trustworthy people are hard to find? Would you hire a stranger to run your campaign during the thickest fight, where your opponent wants nothing more than to remove you from the process?
Will Ron Paul at this stage fire his campaign manager Jesse Benton?
I doubt it.
Other Avenues
This offers Ron Paul supporters some other decisions – to quit showing support for the campaign or to continue supporting the campaign. As I’ve already said, Ron Paul folks aren’t really into quitting.
I don’t like the defeatism I hear coming from people in Ron Paul’s campaign. I don’t care for their negativity. I don’t like the many mistakes they make.
And that’s OK. Everyone makes mistakes and no one’s perfect. That’s something I just need to get over when I observe the campaign in action.
Even if Jesse Benton or Ron Paul thinks it appropriate to suggest the liberty movement might not be successful in making Ron Paul the president this year, the individual members of the liberty movement are entitled to a difference of opinion.
I don’t write in support of anyone or against anyone. I write because I wonder if the most vocal members of the liberty movement realize the responsibility that accompanies their freedoms. Paul’s supporters can, of course, freely and anonymously post their views on the internet, but it must be understood that at this most crucial point at this crossroads of the campaign, many members of the liberty movement are opting to paralyze their own movement.
The liberty movement needs leaders right now instead of a few hurtful anonymous posts on the internet.
Regardless of what the heads of Ron Paul’s campaign think, the liberty movement has a national convention to get to. And it never was about the campaign anyway.
The people who think Ron Paul is a great candidate, but who think the campaign sucks might try some other more productive avenues.
- They could start a PAC, raise money, help contribute concretely to a win, instead of drowning out the campaign’s strategy.
- They could rally together friends and help win votes and delegates for Ron Paul.
- They could admit that maybe they just need to quiet down and follow obediently sometimes.
There are people in Ron Paul’s movement with 30 years of experience running winning campaigns, but you’d never hear them say they want to remove Jesse Benton as campaign manager. They work for the campaign without pay and realize that for an organization to function, some people must accept a role in the campaign and to diligently work in that capacity from the beginning of the campaign all the way through to the end. These people humble those around them with their knowledge of how to win campaigns, yet they also encourage those around them to work harder instead of chatting idly about strategy. They do that by recognizing their place in the campaign and working as hard as possible on excelling in that role.
Liberty-minded
No matter how good a David Axelrod or a Lee Atwater might be for Ron Paul’s cause, I have a hard time imagining that Ron Paul’s supporters would be any happier with them. There’s an old Slovak saying that goes, “There are people who complain even in paradise.” This is similar to the English, “You can’t please all of the people all of the time.” Some people will never be happy and to try to please such people is a fool’s errand.
If Benton screws up, at least he’s a Ron Paul person. It’s a believer in liberty and a believer in Ron Paul as a person, a campaign manager handpicked by that candidate.
Ron Paul has spent 40 years stressing his positions on liberty, 40 years developing his “name brand.” Always the long-game thinker, the long-game thinker that his supporters have come to love, I’m not surprised to see him avoiding a “go for broke” style of thinking. After 40 years of work, the man wants to leave more of a legacy than just “the man who incited riots in the GOP” or “that old guy who spoke on prime time television at the RNC.” The man is a long-game thinker and my guess is, as much as he wants a win in the year 2012, his mind is focused on the future.
When it comes down to it, each member of the liberty movement is an individual, Ron Paul is an individual, and Ron Paul’s campaign is an organization. When those three components are working in sync, they function better. The hurtful, angry words don’t get the liberty movement any closer to working better.
A supporter of the movement reminded me a few weeks ago “United we stand, divided – they win.”
http://mic.com/articles/8435/ron-paul-supporters-united-despite-differences-of-opinion
 
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They did do that in Indiana. I remember being given some of those numbers and helping to call people.

No, the list they used was the one from the webpage where people offered to be a delegate. I did call those. but there were mutiple duplicates and they gave it like 1 week before the deadline.

I understand not giving just anyone the list - but they could have utilized resources better or delegate responsibility. if this is not the fault of a campaign manager then who should we blame?
 
If you're not going to back this up, then stop saying it.

You can't use the, "I don't want to stir things up," line and then keep on making a baseless charge.
It is not necessary to show all the dirty details in order to know that this happened.
 
Shouldn't someone who has the title of "netroots coordinator" at least be liked by those he is tasked with coordinating?
 
It is not necessary to show all the dirty details in order to know that this happened.

I agree. Just show one.

Nobody else here seems to believe that it happened. We were around at the time. And you're far from the most reliable source in this forum. As of now, all the available evidence forces us to conclude that you're lying.
 
Jesse Benton was paid almost 600k ($586,616) for the 2012 election. I blame him some for accepting so much money while doing a terrible job but I do blame his boss more for paying him so much and not being a good steward with our donations.

On this forum when the topic came up back in 2012, the defenders (myself included), said it was for reimbursements. I don't think that was true and cannot find any info for such reimbursements while I can find some info about itemized expenses other campaign staffers used. I think the majority of that 580k was take home pay and he really didn't earn it given the bad job the campaign did with working with the grassroots to get delegates and given how they kept asking for money after the campaign was clearly over.
 
Shouldn't someone who has the title of "netroots coordinator" at least be liked by those he is tasked with coordinating?
That depends on the definition of "coordinating"

in this case "coordinating" probably means sequestering some of us in the attic....our money and votes will be taken (if you feel like donating, but they don't need them) but your views and opinions are clearly too embarrassing for public viewing.

why are you still here?
 
Matt isn't wrong when he says Rand can win without us. He doesn't need our votes, and he doesn't need our money. If Rand plays politics with the big boys in the manner that Romney, McCain, and the Bushes have done in the GOP before him, any money we could raise would pale in comparison to the millions that can be raised on his behalf from corporate donors and PACs. We've been told over and over that Rand isn't trying to speak to us...there aren't enough of us to win an election. So when he speaks the language that Hannity and Limbaugh listeners speak, he can pick up 10 votes to any 1 lost by his father's grassroots supporters.
The Goldwater Revolution, before I was born, was supposed to "change things".

The Reagan Revolution, that I was part of, was supposed to "change things".

The Contract with America Revolution in 1994, was supposed to "change things".

The Consolidated GOP Revolution in DC during the first Bush years, was supposed to "change things".

The Ron Paul Revolution, was supposed to "change things".

The Rand Paul Revolution will "change things". We promise, this time.

Politics is entertainment for tyrants, played out for their benefit, by suckers, chumps and fools.

People do not want freedom, they never have wanted freedom, and the only times the human race has had a little bit of freedom is when men of action SEIZED it from the wretched refuse of the political and ruling classes and ignored the howls and protestations of the Stockholm Syndrome addled masses.

Until they themselves turned into the "pigs".

It is long past time to re-set the clock to zero.
 
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