Carlybee
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If that's the case then the things Jesse did to undermine the campaign pretty much drove the nail in the coffin.
The case for and against Jesse Benton's professional campaign involvement
- Thread starter Bryan
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If that's the case then the things Jesse did to undermine the campaign pretty much drove the nail in the coffin.
Was Tom Woods the one in charge of a campaign that lied to supporters for months wasting their money, and more importantly their time? I don't recall that he was. IMO....
Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because he has (mod edit)
Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because under his management Ron Paul got fewer votes than RICK SANTORUM in 2012.
Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because under his management Ron Paul got fewer votes than NEWT GINGRICH in 2012.
Jesse Benton showed in 2012, he didn't know how to tailor a political message to HELP HIS CANDIDATE WIN.
When in charge, Jesse Benton didn't know how to guide the energy of the grassroots, and through his own actions and the actions of Ron Paul 2012, and instead was busy spraying Roundup everywhere trying to kill the grassroots.
Under Jesse Benton's leadership, Ron Paul 2012 wasted MILLIONS OF SUPPORTERS' DOLLARS and more importantly (and unfortunately) WASTED MONTHS OF THEIR LIVES.
Under Jesse Benton's leadership, Ron Paul 2012's official website was allowed to try, but FAILED, to defend an endorsement of Mitt Romney. A big stick in the eye to actual liberty activists and grassroots supporters that had given their own money and time to try and GET RON PAUL ELECTED.
But, as is evidenced by everything we know, Ron Paul 2012 wasn't trying to win the nomination from February 2012 to May 2012, and instead was simply staying in the race to try and help Mitt Romney win the nomination smoothly, and to try and get Mitt Romney to pickup some Ron Paul supporters, which is why the RNC allowed a Ron Paul tribute video, Rand Paul a speech, and Jack Hunter's garbage use of RonPaul2012.com to defend a Mitt Romney endorsement.
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acptulsa
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Just like it's ok for the establishment to hate the grassroots and publish their grievances, but the grassroots are expected to hold their tongue because "the democrat is worse".
You should know. You've tried and failed often enough. Wish I had a nickel for each post you've made in an attempt to nag us into behaving just like good little sycophant elephants.
What? We're back on topic? Sort of?
Well, then. I've never known someone to go public with information from within an organization unless they have tried to get the issue in question addressed by people from up the food chain within the organization. Whistleblowers generally at least try to figure out who within will want to do the right thing before doing an end run outside the hierarchy.
Now, most of us are inclined to give Ron Paul benefit of our doubts. So, the question becomes, why didn't Tom Woods 'pick up the phone' and call Ron Paul? Was Benton running a Byzantine labyrinth of compartmentalization? Because I'm sorry, Matt, but the fact that you suggested that Woods should have 'picked up the phone' is not proof to me that he even had Ron Paul's phone number.
In any case, I don't see how this could possibly be an equal enough relationship to make judging the two men by the same yardstick viable. If an official of the administration goes public, he or she is being a whistleblower, doing an end run around Obama, and likely reacting to a lack of two way communication from the top down, and maybe causing harm because there might be reasons he or she isn't privy to why secrecy is necessary. If Obama goes public, he's running a transparent administration (for a change). Completely different situations. So, no, of course Benton didn't go public. That's just silly.
I think we'd be unwise to tap people who are outside the machine, then fail to give them room for a 'learning curve'. Sometimes you just have to learn what not to do before you can learn what to do. And the experienced people in this field are likely to be as resistant to the 'outside the box' tactics that we used to successfully break through the 'He Who Must Not Be Named' wall we encountered, or are likely to 'owe' the status quo so many 'favors' that we can't trust the person not to torpedo us from the inside, or both. But if we limit ourselves to outsiders, we have to give these outsiders time and room to prove to us that they're learning from their inevitable missteps.
Is this so with Benton? Is it within the realm of a 'learning curve misstep' to do something that lands the campaign in court? Is the court appearance strictly the result of a frameup?
I think we need a lot more transparency in order to make a rational decision on the matter. But, you know, the lack of transparency in and of itself is an indication of something.
Maybe it's impossible for Rand Paul and Benton to coexist in the same extended family without Benton being considered a 'consultant'. Maybe if they didn't do that, the two men can't even enjoy Carol's turkey from the same table. But as things stand, I'd be dismayed to see Benton take any more active a role in Rand's campaign than that.
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CaptUSA
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Bottom line, Matt...
Can you say, without a doubt, that Benton won't become a topic of the campaign? Can you say that Rand won't have to defend him in some regard? Can you say that Rand won't have to cut ties in an embarrassing kerfuffle? Are you willing to put your entire career on that line? (This seems to be a big concern of yours.)
Past history should give you pause. Obviously, you can't be 100% sure about anyone, but Benton has a track record. That's what concerns many of us - not this petty personality conflict in which you want us to engage. Most of us don't care about your internal soap opera. We don't want the campaign to get derailed by answering questions about this guy. We'd like to focus on the issues because that's where we win.
Can you say, without a doubt, that Benton won't become a topic of the campaign? Can you say that Rand won't have to defend him in some regard? Can you say that Rand won't have to cut ties in an embarrassing kerfuffle? Are you willing to put your entire career on that line? (This seems to be a big concern of yours.)
Past history should give you pause. Obviously, you can't be 100% sure about anyone, but Benton has a track record. That's what concerns many of us - not this petty personality conflict in which you want us to engage. Most of us don't care about your internal soap opera. We don't want the campaign to get derailed by answering questions about this guy. We'd like to focus on the issues because that's where we win.
acptulsa
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Yeah, well, Collins doesn't know how not to deflect.
Now, now. Rand Paul has Collins defending him, too, from time to time. That simply isn't Rand Paul's fault.
You know, Rupert Murdoch had a little something to do with this as well.
And so did Ron Paul, for that matter. I'm very proud to say Ron Paul picked up a tip from me, or from us (I'm the first person I saw doing it) when he challenged the other candidates to a bicycle race in response to questions about his age. I wish he had acted on more of the good ideas we threw his direction gratis. But in the end, those were Ron Paul's campaigns, and he was part of the reason for their failure.
Not that anyone did, or even knew how to ride herd on us cats. But you're right. We didn't even get the impression that he was trying. At least Ron Paul himself showed us a modicum of appreciation and affection.
(Mod edit)
The Bottom Line. This and the fact that Benton's learning curve leeway is all used up and I'm having a hard time figuring out what, if anything, he has learned.
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You've already proven yourself to be a (mod edit)
Jesse Benton was part of a campaign that raised more money than the campaigns of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, and still couldn't win a single state's popular vote. If Jesse Benton couldn't figure out a strategy to win, he shouldn't have wasted months of time and millions of dollars of the grassroots supporters helping Mitt Romney win the nomination.
acptulsa
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We figured out how to win. All we had to do was take over Fox News.
Unfortunately, we never figured out how to do that.
(Mod edit)
So, can you give us a good reason why we should cry over spilled milk until Kingdom Come? Other than you have this stuck in your craw, and want to vent about it forever, which is not a good reason.
Edit: If, as has been alleged, only the King's Men are allowed to contribute nothing to the discussion but rants and invasive insults, and do it without repercussions, then I guess we know who the King's Man here really is...
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CaptUSA
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Uncalled for. Mods will deal with this.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989
Mod note- yes we will, please keep on topic, this isn't about other members. Attack bad information or analysis, not people.
No, it's actually 100% fact based on his posts yesterday where he repeatedly lied, over and over and over. Blatantly.
(mod edit)
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NewRightLibertarian
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As far as I'm concerned, Rand bringing on Jesse Benton to his campaign team will demonstrate cronyism, nepotism and a lack of quality judgment on Rand's part. It will be a red flag for any dedicated liberty activist that their time would be better spent on other endeavors.
invisible
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Maybe donation efforts can be directed to buy off frank. Imagine actually cheering the guy, rather than wanting to scream FU every time his face appears on the screen after a debate.
Hey Matt! Could you please stop talking about Tom Woods, and start talking about what benton brings to the table, that is unique enough to be worth the division of supporters? You seem to be the only person out there in benton's corner, so I'd really like to hear why benton is uniquely essential, rather than why Tom Woods is bad. An attack on Woods is not an argument in favor of benton - to think that it is, just might be considered a logical fallacy.
acptulsa
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Yes. The fact that Matt Collins defends Benton is not a valid argument against Benton.
Matt Collins
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Why did Benton go to work for McConnell? Think about it....
Just throwing that out there...
Just throwing that out there...
NewRightLibertarian
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The almighty dollar? Using his position with the Ron Paul campaign to secure himself another high-paying prestigious political position?
If it was to help Rand, that sure backfired after he was forced to resign in disgrace.
newbitech
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comment 12 is a good read. Wonder who "Brad" is.
http://thecrossedpond.com/2012/09/13/jesse-benton-to-run-mitch-mcconnell-2014-reelection-campaign/
http://thecrossedpond.com/2012/09/13/jesse-benton-to-run-mitch-mcconnell-2014-reelection-campaign/
Please actually tell us what your point is instead of having us try to figure out what you are claiming.
invisible
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For the same reason that anybody accepts a job: to get paid, and make a living. Obvious answer is obvious.
The REAL question is: why did mcconnell offer benton the job? What did he bring to the table, that no one else could have done?
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