The case for and against Jesse Benton's professional campaign involvement

[erowe1]

That is part of it yes, but Tom posted some pretty inflammatory and insulting Facebook posts. I have screenshots, but I am not going to post them because it does no good to do so.

From 2011?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Tom posted some pretty inflammatory and insulting Facebook posts. I have screenshots, but I am not going to post them because it does no good to do so.

What does a netroots guy actually do? Scwewy question, I know, but color me simple, I don't know the answer.

 

[erowe1]

What does benton bring to the table, that makes his inclusion worth the controversy and division among supporters? What is he able to do, that someone else without the controversy attached to them is not able to do?

No one seems to be able to actually answer this.

In 2012 Benton did the dirty work that Ron needed to be kept clean from. If Rand hires him, it will be to do the same for him.

 

[cajuncocoa]

That is part of it yes, but Tom posted some pretty inflammatory and insulting Facebook posts. I have screenshots, but I am not going to post them because it does no good to do so.

Your typical modus operandi

 

[Crashland]

In 2012 Benton did the dirty work that Ron needed to be kept clean from. If Rand hires him, it will be to do the same for him.

That may be true, but Benton is not the only person capable of doing that. Why not get someone else who isn't already tainted with massive negatives?

 

[Matt Collins]

Reading through that, it seems to me like a really big stretch to call that kind of thing "undermining the campaign". The points he made were, in my opinion, fairly obvious,

Well, what may be "obvious" to one, may be absolutely absurd and outright rude to those he was directing it to.


Tom doesn't know anything about campaigning, or politics for that matter. What he did would be like an art major trying to give Ludwig Von Mises criticism about his economic theories. Except that Tom offered his unsolicited criticism publicly out in the open for everyone to see.


Having read the link provided by erowe I can say that some of Tom's advice in this particular instance was not actually too bad. But why didn't he just call up Ron himself and talk to him about it? Why tell Ron what to do in front of everyone? It's a lack of tact.

Some of his other postings were just outright childish.

 

[erowe1]

Reading through that, it seems to me like a really big stretch to call that kind of thing "undermining the campaign".

Of course you're right. But Benton took it personally. Benton is one of those types.

 

[staerker]

That is part of it yes, but Tom posted some pretty inflammatory and insulting Facebook posts. I have screenshots, but I am not going to post them because it does no good to do so.

Matt, while one can appreciate the notion of not unnecessarily stirring things up, with this comment you have trapped yourself. If one is to trust you, your comments will do just as much harm as releasing these screenshots (why post that comment in the first place, if it does no good? You assume that no one will trust you?)

But the default here is to not believe unsubstantiated claims, so then, with this comment (and no screenshots) you lose all credibility.

 

[jjdoyle]

Bryan, thanks for this thread, and the opportunity to actually have this much-needed discussion.

I personally am neutral on benton. I've met him in passing a couple times, and he certainly seemed like a nice enough guy. The benton-bashers' case and positions are well known. We all know about the bad things he has done, and the good things he hasn't done. Those against benton have made a good argument. He has proved to be a controversial figure who has caused a large division among Ron and Rand's supporters.

However, what I'm interested in hearing is the counter argument. Yes, he's family for Ron and Rand. He is apparently trusted by them. This is why I am still neutral. But being a trusted family member is obviously not enough to qualify him for his position. There is some other reason why Ron and Rand feel he is essential to their campaign staff. My question is, what is it? What does benton bring to the table, that makes his inclusion worth the controversy and division among supporters? What is he able to do, that someone else without the controversy attached to them is not able to do?

No one seems to be able to actually answer this.

Nothing. There is nothing that he is able to do that someone like Gunny, Penny Freeman, or even Deb could not do. So, what is it that would be a reason to keep him around? Dirty politics, of course.

Benton has emails and phone records from Ron Paul 2012 with Mitt Romney's campaign I believe, and the proof of selling everybody out for Rand's "benefit", and of course his own monetary benefit for destroying momentum in the campaign and ensuring the nomination process would go smoothly for Mitt Romney. Jesse Benton was paid over $500,000 doing "work" in Kentucky since Ron Paul 2012's campaign ended.

He went from running a losing political presidential campaign, that got fewer votes than Rick Santorum, to working for the Senate Minority leader making several hundred thousand dollars. Makes no sense, for anybody involved in politics knowing what we do.

There is no other reason for him to be near Rand in 2016 based on his performance with Ron Paul 2012, but if he is, it's probably because they are afraid Benton would leak things like emails and other stuff, further destroying the movement that he has already done much to destroy.

Under Jesse Benton's leadership at Ron Paul 2012, the campaign has now wasted several hundred thousand dollars trying to get the FEC investigation to go away quietly.

I have a solution that I would accept for Jesse to work for Rand in 2016 though. If Jesse Benton refunds Ron Paul 2012 the several hundred thousand dollars being spent on his and Dimitri's legal defense fund regarding the Kent Sorenson issue, and if Jesse Benton pays back the Kent Sorenson pay money to Ron Paul 2012, and gives back his paychecks from Ron Paul 2012 for February, March, April, and May 2012 (I can check the FEC reports for the exact months in 2012 if he would accept this agreement), AND most importantly if he gets Ron Paul 2012 to issue refunds to the few supporters that requested them and were denied, THEN I could see him working for Rand in 2016.

I wouldn't donate a dime if he is working for Rand in 2016, but the fact the grassroot supporters from 2012 wouldn't be paying for his mistakes in the campaign, would be a step in the right direction for me.

 

[CPUd]

Perhaps Matt Collins can PM the screenshots to someone like Gunny with the understanding that they won't be posted publicly.

 

[Crashland]

Well, what may be "obvious" to one, may be absolutely absurd and outright rude to those he was directing it to.


Tom doesn't know anything about campaigning, or politics for that matter. What he did would be like an art major trying to give Ludwig Von Mises criticism about his economic theories. Except that Tom offered his unsolicited criticism publicly out in the open for everyone to see.


Having read the link provided by erowe I can say that some of Tom's advice in this particular instance was not actually too bad. But why didn't he just call up Ron himself and talk to him about it? Why tell Ron what to do in front of everyone? It's a lack of tact.

Some of his other postings were just outright childish.

The outright childish ones were in 2011? Anyway, every candidate gets reams and reams of unsolicited public criticism all the time from people who don't know what they are talking about, from random people online, to talking heads on TV, and from supporters and detractors. Also, just because someone does not do something for a living doesn't mean that every opinion they have about that thing is automatically invalid. Again, I am sure when you are in a position like Benton's, you receive all sorts of unsolicited criticism all the time, and some of it is bound to be bad criticism and some of it is bound to be good criticism. It's not a black and white issue. But I would bet a lot of money that in 2016, there is going to be a hell of a lot more unsolicited criticism to the Rand Paul campaign. Do we really want Benton handling it the same way he did in Ron Paul 2012?

We need to stop talking about Tom Woods. We are supposed to be talking about Jesse Benton and how Jesse Benton handled the situation.

 

[mosquitobite]

Because Tom is the one being divisive by publicly attacking Jesse.


That's not the issue. The issue is that someone who is supposedly on our side actively hurting the campaign by publicly undermining it.

No, the mature thing would've been for Tom Woods not to have aired his grievances publicly, valid or invalid.

Did Tom attack the candidate?

How in the world was a possible attack against Jesse Benton (not substantiated) damaging to anyone except Jesse Benton?

 

[green73]

I have to say..It's so refreshing for a member of Rand 2016 to reach out to us here. Suddenly I don't feel so small.

Matt, will you sign my mouse pad?

 

[jjdoyle]

Well, what may be "obvious" to one, may be absolutely absurd and outright rude to those he was directing it to.


Tom doesn't know anything about campaigning, or politics for that matter. What he did would be like an art major trying to give Ludwig Von Mises criticism about his economic theories. Except that Tom offered his unsolicited criticism publicly out in the open for everyone to see.


Having read the link provided by erowe I can say that some of Tom's advice in this particular instance was not actually too bad. But why didn't he just call up Ron himself and talk to him about it? Why tell Ron what to do in front of everyone? It's a lack of tact.

Some of his other postings were just outright childish.

REALLY!? It was called being a part of a PAC and following FEC guidelines, yes something we know your buddies Jesse Benton and Dimitri Kesari knew nothing of.
Tom Woods couldn't contact Ron about it privately, unless you wanted him to break FEC guidelines.

So, Tom Woods knows more about campaigning, than you and Jesse Benton...though, that isn't really saying a lot.

 

[presence]

Lets play a game, I'll go first:

Add something to this list that you don't like about Jesse Benton

1) He's Facing Federal Election Fraud Charges

Feel free to add more than one item before you pass it on, you're always welcome to play more than once.

 

[jjdoyle]

Lets play a game, I'll go first:

Feel free to add more than one item before you pass it on, you're always welcome to play more than once.

He's defended by Matt Collins.

 

[presence]

keep up the format now

Lets play a game, I'll go first:

Add something to this list that you don't like about Jesse Benton

1) He's Facing Federal Election Fraud Charges
2) He's defended by Matt Collins.

 

[Danke]

Well, what may be "obvious" to one, may be absolutely absurd and outright rude to those he was directing it to.


Tom doesn't know anything about campaigning, or politics for that matter. What he did would be like an art major trying to give Ludwig Von Mises criticism about his economic theories. Except that Tom offered his unsolicited criticism publicly out in the open for everyone to see.


Having read the link provided by erowe I can say that some of Tom's advice in this particular instance was not actually too bad. But why didn't he just call up Ron himself and talk to him about it? Why tell Ron what to do in front of everyone? It's a lack of tact.

Some of his other postings were just outright childish.

He kept his mouth shut during the campaign. Then release a video after explaining why.

 

[mosquitobite]

No, the mature thing would've been for Tom Woods not to have aired his grievances publicly, valid or invalid.

Again, another ESTABLISHMENT tactic.

It's ok for Jesse to air grievances about Tom because Jesse is "on the inside". Just like it's ok for the establishment to hate the grassroots and publish their grievances, but the grassroots are expected to hold their tongue because "the democrat is worse".

Can you not see you've sold out to the very.same.mindset that we're all here to work against? That's what makes you so frustrating!

 

[Natural Citizen]

If anyone would be helpful enough to answer my question in post #43, I'd appreciate it. Matt kind of bailed and didn't acknowledge my question. I wasn't going to tinker with him or anything. Is a real question that I have.

Edit - jjdoyle sent me in the right direction. Disregard question. Thanks, jjdoyle.