The 1% PPP poll thread

I am wondering if Trump is funding these polls; he wants to force out Rand to show how powerful he is....someone with money is behind the downgrading of Rand...
 
Unless you have evidence that someone paid to influence the poll results, stop claiming that it happened. Too much wishful thinking and arguments from incredulity going around every time there's a poll we don't like. Were they all still being paid by the same people when Rand was in the upper teens?
 
squirl22 said:
I am wondering if Trump is funding these polls; he wants to force out Rand to show how powerful he is....someone with money is behind the downgrading of Rand...
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Trump has run a shoestring campaign so far. Don't believe his estimates of his own wealth, which are vastly overstated, and remember that nearly all his money is tied up in non-liquid real estate. Did you see that Jeb ad he released yesterday? Good message, but the production values were local mayoral race level cheap. Trump is going to be very frugal with his own cash.

And the idea that there is "money" behind the degradation of Rand is just silly. Many of us on here predicted this is where Rand would end up if he persisted with the utterly tone deaf campaign he was running. The only person downgrading Rand is Rand, and he's done such a bang up job of it that the opposition research and dirty tricks the elites had ready to use against him are collecting dust somewhere and unlikely to ever be used.
 
RonPaulMall said:
Trump has run a shoestring campaign so far. Don't believe his estimates of his own wealth, which are vastly overstated, and remember that nearly all his money is tied up in non-liquid real estate. Did you see that Jeb ad he released yesterday? Good message, but the production values were local mayoral race level cheap. Trump is going to be very frugal with his own cash.

And the idea that there is "money" behind the degradation of Rand is just silly. Many of us on here predicted this is where Rand would end up if he persisted with the utterly tone deaf campaign he was running. The only person downgrading Rand is Rand, and he's done such a bang up job of it that the opposition research and dirty tricks the elites had ready to use against him are collecting dust somewhere and unlikely to ever be used.
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If you can spam I can too. Sure, there's no money behind Trump and trashing Rand. There's no money in or behind the mainstream media at all. :rolleyes:

As for the rest of it...

acptulsa said:
The Great Fox Republican Purity Test--if you do what it takes to be able to win the general election, you aren't Red Meat Republican enough to win the nomination. See, Paleo, we have been paying attention to your advice. Sacrifice your legendary ability to beat Clinton in order to secure the nomination. We've heard that over and over.

Just like the coach who tells his star quarterback, best running back, best tight end and wide receiver, and both starting linebackers to go foul the snot out of people and get themselves three game suspensions in order to win the AFC Championship Game. Yeah, Vegas is giving away 63 points in a desperate attempt to get people to bet on you in the Super Bowl, but you won the AFC Championship by God!
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CPUd said:
Rachel Maddow couldn't wait to post this, which will probably come out later today:
DbtP09x.jpg


Yes, it is ugly, since these states are not very populous, they probably didn't poll very many in Utah, Idaho, Wyoming or Alaska, where Rand spend most of last week. I know if Rand were polling 15-20%, few people here would be questioning the polling methodologies, so I'm not going to say much more about that, especially since they haven't released it yet. This thread is more to preempt the next round of:


"Rand needs to fire his campaign staff"
"Rand doesn't want to win"
"Grassroots for Rand is dead"
"Too many empty seats at the rally"
"Rand campaign morale is low"
"Rand will probably drop his campaign"
"...milquetoast..."
"Rand blew it, who to support next?"
"Rand isn't going to make the cut for the debate"

If you feel the urge to post something like ^^^, please go to vent and do it.


Including this poll, here is what the average looks like:

Trump 23.1
Bush 11.4
Walker 10.3
Carson 8.0
Rubio 6.4
Cruz 6.2
Huckabee 5.9
Paul 4.3
Kasich 3.8
Christie 3.6
Fiorina 2.5
Perry 1.9
Santorum 1.3
Jindal 1.1
Graham 0.4


from the following polls:

PPP (D) 8/28-8/30
Quinnipiac 8/20 - 8/25
CNN/ORC 8/13 - 8/16
FOX News 8/11 - 8/13
Rasmussen 8/9 - 8/10
FOX News 7/30 - 8/2
Monmouth 7/30 - 8/2
Bloomberg 7/30 - 8/2
CBS News 7/29 - 8/2
NBC/WSJ 7/26 - 7/30
Quinnipiac 7/23 - 7/28
Rasmussen 7/26 - 7/27
CNN/ORC 7/22 - 7/25
PPP (D) 7/20 - 7/21
ABC/Wash Post 7/16 - 7/19
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Is this right? Does CNN count different polls from same polling companies?
 
nless you have evidence that someone paid to influence the poll results, stop claiming that it happened. Too much wishful thinking and arguments from incredulity going around every time there's a poll we don't like.
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All polls are influenced by who pays for them. You are naive if you don't believe that.
 
carlton said:
Is this right? Does CNN count different polls from same polling companies?
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Best guess from the last time this was discussed is they probably do. If they only count 1 poll from each pollster since 7/16, it would look like:

Trump 23.7
Bush 10.9
Walker 9.1
Carson 8.8
Rubio 6.4
Cruz 6.4
Huckabee 5.6
Paul 4.1
Kasich 3.7
Fiorina 3.5
Christie 3.3
Perry 1.9
Santorum 1.2
Jindal 0.9
Graham 0.3

from the polls:
PPP (D) 8/28-8/30
Quinnipiac 8/20 - 8/25
CNN/ORC 8/13 - 8/16
FOX News 8/11 - 8/13
Rasmussen 8/9 - 8/10
Monmouth 7/30 - 8/2
Bloomberg 7/30 - 8/2
CBS News 7/29 - 8/2
NBC/WSJ 7/26 - 7/30
ABC/Wash Post 7/16 - 7/19


The ones to watch in the upcoming polls are Kasich and (maybe) Christie. If they keep outpolling Rand by 4-5 points, they could gain on him fast enough to be a threat.
 
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Another debate?

So we're down to another debate. Remember how people said the first debate was going to be a "game changer"? Well, how did that work out? Rand did exactly everything we wanted him to do: attack Trump, defend himself forcefully against the other candidates. I myself thought he didn't do anything to hurt himself and could establish a floor to his poll numbers at that time and start to build back up.

Instead things have gotten worse if that's even possible. Apparently, a lot of people, ordinary people not political junkies like most of us, saw Rand, many perhaps for the first time on an extended basis, and didn't like him. Now he's at one percent in the polls. If people didn't like what they saw of Rand the first time, how is another debate going to change this? Or another after that, especially when the audience will be way down from the first debate?

Looks like we've come full circle haven't we? In February of 2007 we started the Revolution with one percent and now here it is September of 2015 and we're back at one percent. That's not completely Rand's fault but he shares a good deal of the blame. I know, at least he's a U.S. Senator and that's no small matter. Hopefully it's still important enough to him to fight for it because it's looking like he'll have to put his eggs in that basket.
 
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Badger Paul said:
So we're down to another debate. Remember how people said the first debate was going to be a "game changer"? Well, how did that work out? Rand did exactly everything we wanted him to do: attack Trump, defend himself forcefully against the other candidates. I myself thought he didn't do anything to hurt himself .
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I never thought his attacks on Trump that night were a good idea. Speak for yourself.
 
Apparently, a lot of people, ordinary people not political junkies like most of us, saw Rand, many perhaps for the first time on an extended basis and didn't like him
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That's not exactly true. It is the media that convinced people that he was not likable and did a bad job. I saw a couple of the focus groups after the debate and there were people who wanted to talk about Rand and the 4th amendment and they were shut down. The media made them feel like if they liked Rand there was something wrong with them. Most people have low self esteem so they are easily bullied into a different opinion. Too bad, that's how it is.
 
Badger Paul said:
So we're down to another debate. Remember how people said the first debate was going to be a "game changer"? Well, how did that work out? Rand did exactly everything we wanted him to do: attack Trump, defend himself forcefully against the other candidates. I myself thought he didn't do anything to hurt himself and could establish a floor to his poll numbers at that time and start to build back up.

Instead things have gotten worse if that's even possible. Apparently, a lot of people, ordinary people not political junkies like most of us, saw Rand, many perhaps for the first time on an extended basis and didn't like him. Now he's at one percent in the polls. If people didn't like what they saw of Rand the first time, how is another debate going to change this? Or another after that, especially when the audience will be way down from the first debate?

Looks like we've come full circle haven't we? In February of 2007 we started the Revolution with one percent and now here it is September of 2015 and we're back at one percent. That's not completely Rand's fault but he shares a good deal of the blame. I know, at least he a U.S. Senator and that's no small matter. Hopefully it's still important enough to him to fight for it because it's looking like he'll have to put his eggs in that basket.
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Well I do know a very standard republican voter that doesn't pay a lot of attention but votes republican. This person knew I was a paul follower and said she was not impressed after watching the debate. "Why did he perm his hair" was the question I got. Here I am trying to explain political points and then find myself stammering about the Rand has natural curly hair and wears it that way. I don't think she heard a thing he said except his sounded wild.
 
Some of you folks need to "get out more" and get a pulse from real people.

I participate in other forums that have a broad cross section of political voices. One in particular had a long thread where members had a live blogging party as the debate went on. Rand hurt himself with that last debate. It wasn't the media's fault.

His emotional reactions to Christie came across as juvenile and petty. It's not the substance of anything he said. It's the manner in which he did it and the apparent immaturity that it evoked that turned people off. I've been trying to generate some discussion on this since I returned to the forum (hopefully someone on Rand's team is reading this forum and gets a clue).

Bern said:
Hello RPF friends, it's been a while since I last roamed the halls here. This thread caught my eye.

As someone who has not been deep in the news cycle about any of the candidates, I really don't know what most of the candidates have been doing. I did, however, watch the GOP debates on FOX News. Unfortunately, Rand did not help himself in that debate. It's not about the substance of anything he said. It's about looking like a shrill, angry and petty child. It just doesn't play well with the masses. If he wants to win this thing, he is going to have to keep his cool at all times. Speaking when you are in control of your emotions exudes an air that you are in control period. That's Presidential and that sells to Main Street.
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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-doing-right&p=5960832&viewfull=1#post5960832

Bern said:
Agreed. His next debate performance is critical if this campaign is going to move forward. He needs to project confidence, poise and gravitas. Body language, emotional control, dress for success. Most voters want to vote for a leader, not for issues. Rand needs to project leadership and righteousness in his positions. Sadly, it doesn't really matter to most what those positions actually are.
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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-poll-thread&p=5976568&viewfull=1#post5976568

(Don't shoot the messenger)
 
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Bern said:
Some of you folks need to "get out more" and get a pulse from real people.

I participate in other forums that have a broad cross section of political voices. One in particular had a long thread where members had a live blogging party as the debate went on. Rand hurt himself with that last debate. It wasn't the media's fault.

His emotional reactions to Christie came across as juvenile and petty. It's not the substance of anything he said. It's the manner in which he did it and the apparent immaturity that it evoked that turned people off. I've been trying to generate some discussion on this since I returned to the forum (hopefully someone on Rand's team is reading this forum and gets a clue).



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-doing-right&p=5960832&viewfull=1#post5960832



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-poll-thread&p=5976568&viewfull=1#post5976568

(Don't shoot the messenger)
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Unfortunately I have to agree with this. What you observed is what I observed talking to people who watched the debate. Mike Rowe compared his performance to a poodle attacking. Not a good image. He can turn it around with a good solid presidential performance though.
 
Badger Paul said:
Looks like we've come full circle haven't we? In February of 2007 we started the Revolution with one percent and now here it is September of 2015 and we're back at one percent. That's not completely Rand's fault but he shares a good deal of the blame. I know, at least he's a U.S. Senator and that's no small matter. Hopefully it's still important enough to him to fight for it because it's looking like he'll have to put his eggs in that basket.
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Rand running one of the worst campaigns in Presidential history has nothing to do with the state of the Liberty Movement at large. In 2007 we had Ron Paul and that was about it. Now we have Amash, Massie, Yoho, Brat, Rand, and Lee among others. A Liberty Guy took out one of the most powerful and despicable Neocons in the House last time around, and this time around we have a Liberty Lady looking like she might take out one of the most powerful and despicable Neocons in the US Senate. The progress the Liberty Movement has made over the past few years has been breathtaking to behold. Every now and then you going to have a candidate that lays an egg. The Establishment R's and D's have to deal with that too from time to time. You can't let one poorly run campaign in one race sour your outlook on the liberty movement in general. We have never been more popular than we are now.
 
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